The horrific bombing of the Boston Marathon, to hear the FBI and the Boston Police tell it, is solved: One bomber, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, is dead, gunned down by police and then run over for good measure by his fleeing brother Dzhokhar, who was captured a day later in a citywide manhunt, after being hit by a fusillade of police bullets fired into a trailered pleasure boat he was hiding in.
Among the reasons law enforcement sources are so confident they “got” their men were video surveillance photos from a Lord & Taylor storefront area showing the two brothers as they arrived at the finish-line area, each wearing a backpack, allegedly carrying what the FBI now says were two identical 6-quart steel pressure cookers marketed by the Canadian corporation Fagor. Fragments of those pots, which the FBI says were packed with black powder (gathered from a collection of fireworks) as well as nails and BBs, were recovered at the scene.
Besides the photos of the two brothers wearing their packs, the FBI also has released a photo of the remnants of one of the backpacks, allegedly the black, or dark-colored, one worn by the elder Tamerlan Tsarnaev. There is also a photo of what is described as a white backpack, which was placed on the street side of a metal crowd-control fence. It was said to contain the second bomb, which exploded 10 seconds later, further from the finish line. This is presumed to be the same light-colored pack Dzhokhar is seen wearing in the store video as he arrives on the scene.
There are a number of serious problems with this supposedly damning evidence, however.
First of all, nobody looking at the evidence to date has tried loading up one of these Fagor pots with the amount of weight that would have been created by a big four or five quarts’ worth of black powder, perhaps two quarts of nails, and perhaps a pound or two of BB shot, to see what it would look like in a basic unstructured book bag of the type the two men were wearing.
WhoWhatWhy decided to do that.
***
The first problem was buying the pot. This reporter looked it up online and found that it was being sold by Macy’s. Going to the nearest Macy’s at the Montgomery Mall in Montgomeryville, PA, we discovered that the cookware section had no pressure cookers. The store clerk in charge of that section was asked where pressure cookers were.
“We don’t sell pressure cookers,” she said.
“How can a cookware section not sell pressure cookers? Anyhow, your website says you sell a line of Fagor pressure cookers.”
She replied, “We stopped selling them after the Boston Bombing.”
So it goes. Guns—even the gun used in the incident, still get sold in stores after the Newtown, CT, school massacre, but when someone makes a bomb with an ordinary kitchen implement, they are taken off the shelves. (What’s next, a demand for licenses to buy canning equipment?)
Luckily, we found several of the Fagor six-quart pots in a nearby Sears store, and purchased one, on sale for $76.00. The dimensions of the kettle are 10 inches in diameter and 7.7 inches bottom to top, not counting the handle (which cannot be detached without exposing four bolt holes through the top and side of the lid).
After getting a calculation that a quart of black powder weighs about two pounds (a very general measurement, because the compound changes weight according to the humidity, and can be loosely or densely packed like any powder), and testing a bag of small nails to find that they weigh about six pounds per quart, and after weighing the pot itself, we found that the whole contraption, fully loaded with four to five quarts of powder, two quarts’ worth of nails and BBs, and a battery and ignition device, would weigh about 30 lbs. So we put a sufficient number of exercise weight plates into our container, shut the lid, and tried carrying it in two backpacks similar in construction to the ones on the two brothers’ backs.
The results were instructive.
If you look carefully at the first set of photos, showing the surveillance photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and the model wearing a similar pack containing the loaded pot, both packs being slung over the right shoulder using the right strap only, you can see a dramatic difference. There are stress wrinkles under the jacket of the right image on the model, caused by the 30-lb. weight pulling downward, but Dzhokhar’s jacket can be seen to be completely smooth under the strap. His pack is clearly extremely light on his shoulder (which may be why he’s not wearing it slung over both shoulders). As well, you can see that the weight of the pot, pulling down and outward in the model’s bag on the right, is causing a downward sloping of the top of the backpack, and is also causing many vertical stress lines on the face of the bag itself. Dzhokhar’s bag, however, is flat across the top, indicating no such downward pulling force, and it does not exhibit any downward wrinkles on its side. Whatever he is carrying, it is clearly not a 30-lb., or even a 20-lb. cylinder.
Here’s a close-up image of the shoulder straps on Dzhokhar’s and the model’s right shoulders:
Moving to Tamerlan Tsarnaev, check out the model’s slightly larger pack, which like Tamerlan’s is being worn with both straps over the shoulders. Again, the pack on the right, containing the loaded pot, is causing obvious wrinkles on the winter coat where the straps are bearing down on a small section of padded coat. Once again the weight of the straps of the shoulder— this time 15 lbs. per strap—can be seen causing prominent wrinkling on the winter coat worn by the model underneath the straps. The downward sloping of the face of the backpack, and also the vertical stress wrinkles are prominent and clearly visible also. In the video surveillance photo of Tamerlan, however, his coat can be seen to be unwrinkled under the straps, and there are again no vertical stress lines on the face of his pack. Again, it is hard to imagine a 30 or even a 20-lb. weight in the bottom of that pack.
There are other questions too, that need to be asked, and that demand answers.
First of all, there is the matter of the photo released by the FBI of an exploded backpack, said to have contained one of the pressure cooker bombs. The material is dark black, and it is not because of charring, because the color is uniform, and also there are white images on it, including a white square (more on that later). That would have to have been Tamerlan’s pack, given that Dzhokhar’s is white or light-colored. But looking at the image of Tamerlan wearing his pack, and contrasting the light color of the pack relative to his clearly black winter coat, it appears that the pack is more of a gray than a black. It’s possible that it’s a matter of the lighting and the quality of the video, but it does not seem to be a jet black color, especially as there are much darker lines on it that appear to be real black, along the seam lines. So was that exploded pack really Tamerlan’s?
As for Dzhokhar, the photo of a pack set on the sidewalk in front of a bunch of spectators, in the spot where bomb number two exploded bears no resemblance to the pack he was photographed wearing, which had wide black seam lines and zippers.
Meanwhile, there were people on the scene near the finish line who were wearing backpacks that were both very dark black and large enough and full-enough looking to be containing a loaded pressure kettle. These men were observed and photographed wearing baseball caps and shirts bearing the uniquely drawn white skull logo of a Houston, TX-based mercenary-for-hire firm called Craft International Security (whom no governmental agency will admit to having hired). Curiously, images of several of the men wearing those packs show them to have an unusual white square image on the top of the pack, quite like the white square visible in the FBI’s image of the exploded black pack. The Craft personnel’s packs are made of material that looks remarkably similar to whatever was used to make the exploded pack. (The man on the right below is photographed before the bombing. He is also seen, in an image taken after the explosion, running alongside a second identically-dressed Craft man wearing a pack and the company’s logo-emblazoned hat. Note that the left runner, interestingly, now no longer has on his pack. Where did it go?)
Note: Stay tuned for more information on Craft, its origins, management and relationship with the US government. We will try to determine what these private “soldiers” were doing at the end point of the marathon wearing large backpacks (or mysteriously losing those large backpacks) right around the time of the explosions. Of course it’s possible there is some benign explanation. It’s equally possible they were hired to guard against some threat that runners and spectators were never cautioned about, which could explain all the secrecy now about them.
***
Some may argue that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has confessed to the crime, and even that two days ago his written confession was found scrawled on the inside wall of the boat he was captured in. But while the corporate media is reporting that as evidence, let’s not rush to judgment here. Those reports of a confession have been sourced by the media only to unnamed “law enforcement sources” and there have been many such leaks and statements that have turned out to be false, such as the report of a 7-Eleven being robbed by the brothers, and a lengthy shootout between Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and police before he was captured in the boat (unarmed).
Since Dzhokhar has not said a word since he was finally provided with a lawyer, these “law enforcement sources” are reporting things that Dzhokhar would have had to have said during an unrelenting 16-hour interrogation by the FBI’s crack post-9/11 terrorist interrogation unit, who interrogated him while he was in serious condition from having been shot multiple times, including through the neck, possibly blowing off part of his tongue, after he had suffered massive blood loss and shock, and while he was heavily sedated and handcuffed to his bed. We’re supposed to accept that “confession” without question?
A copy of the transcript of a hospital bedside visit to Dzhokhar in Beth Israel Hospital by Federal Judge Marianne B. Bowler, who had finally called a halt to the interrogation (all conducted without a lawyer or witness present, despite reports that Dzhokhar had repeatedly requested and been denied an attorney), gives a good idea of how aware and capable of talking he actually was:
The Court: I will ask the doctor whether or not the patient is alert.
You can rouse him.
Dr. Odom: How are you feeling!
Are you able to answer some questions?
The Defendant: (Defendant nods affirmatively)
There follow a series of questions and answers between judge and attorneys, and then some questions to Tsarnaev, which are only answered by nods.
Later, the Judge asks:
The Court: Can you afford a lawyer?
The Defendant: No.
The Court: Let the record reflect that I believe the defendant has said “No”.
This is the quality of “conversation” of which Dzhokhar was capable almost a week after his capture, at a time when the hospital was listing him in “fair” condition. Just what level of “conversation” did he likely have with his FBI interrogators in secret when he had just been captured and was listed in serious condition and when there was some question as to whether he would even survive his shooting ordeal?
Meanwhile, the purported writing on the inner hull of the boat was not reported for several weeks, until CBS Senior Correspondent John Miller—himself a former FBI spokesman—broke the story. Was it really written by a frightened and severely wounded Dzhokhar Tsarnaev while he was on the lam from a city-wide manhunt? Or is it perhaps some cop’s prank? At this point who knows? As far as we know, nobody has tried to match the scrawl with his own handwriting to date.
So that brings us back to those two backpacks. What could have been in them for them to be hanging so lightly on the two suspects’ backs? And if it wasn’t two explosive-laden pressure cookers—if—then who put those bombs at the finish line?
These are precarious times. We owe it to ourselves to fully investigate all aspects of this singular affair, not to take anyone’s word for what we should think.
[box]WhoWhatWhy plans to continue doing this kind of groundbreaking original reporting. You can count on it. But can we count on you? We cannot do our work without your support.
Please click here to donate; it’s tax deductible. And it packs a punch.[/box]
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More false flag operations. The beat goes on.
One of the two men circled in this picture is the same ‘contractor’ with the large bag pictured above. It takes place after the bombing (obviously) and he appears to still have his bag on.
http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-24.jpg
Great article,with some valid points. I would love to see someone post a youtube video showing your experiment of taking the exact weighed out pressure cooker ingredients,adding them into the cooker and then backpack followed by the video showing a model walking around with the loaded backpack. I think that would be extremely helpful. Not to me but to the majority out there who still trusts and believes their government. I have no doubt in my mind that everything and anything that comes out of there television is all bad for you and 99.9% of the time what is being shown on television is never what you think it is. Besides governments of the world, (especially Western country governments), do not have the best track record and have pulled this kind of crap in the past and will continue to do so. Just read the documents on things like Operation Gladio, or read the now declassified documents or the statement from Macdamerra who was secretary of defense when the u,s, entered the Vietnam war, he has publicly announced on more than one occasion in recent years that the Gulf of Tonken incident that the U.S. used as their argument to enter the Vietnman war never even happened. It was a lie! Its all lies if you seriously still think Governments are here to help the people you are greatly mistaken.
Look at it from a common sense point of view. You have a group of people in Power, (government and people above government who really call the shots), and these people are all living extremely, luxurious,comfortable lifestyles that are way above the type of lifestyle that everyone else is living. So naturally it is in their best interests for them to want to do whatever it takes to make sure that they can maintain this higher more luxurious way of life; and to make sure that it isn’t threatened. Which means they will do whatever it takes and stop at just about nothing to make sure things stay the way they currently are.
The number one way they try to make sure their way of comfortable living above everyone else isn’t threatened is through the education system. I mean come on, isn’t it pretty obvious that there is a conflict of interest when the ruling elite/government has ties and is in bed so to speak with the educational system of its country by its creating of a standardized curriculum? Lets just call “The Curriculum”, for what it really is. Its a government imposing a limit on the flow of knowledge. If you are the elite in positions of power and you have the ability to control not only what it is people are taught in school but just how much of it they can be taught; at the end of the day your going to worry less about your way of life being threatened by these people who are less informed and less educated, than say if the majority of the population’s flow of knowledge wasn’t restricted by a states curriculum; and instead the education system was turning out extremely,bright educated, and well informed individuals. Those type of citizens are the ones you would worry the most about because they would be more apt to be sitting around the table with either their family members or neighbors; figuring out just how badly the system has screwed them over and thrown them overboard years ago and just what it is they can do about it. Why do you think most of these people in powerful positions, like for example the Kerry or McCain family,famous musicians, or Actors and Actresses families send their children to special elite private schools, instead of public schools? Because what they are teaching the masses is just enough to turn out obedient workers.
Here is a perfect example. Typical State controlled curriculum American history teaches that right in the middle of the ranging, bombs going off bullets flying around everywhere major battle of the war of 1812, Francis Scott Key writes America’s national Anthem, The star spangled banner. First off, whats wrong with that picture? I’m a songwriter myself and I would not be able to sit down at the piano or with my guitar or even without an instrument and just pen and paper and begin to try to write a song in the middle of a war, regardless of if I might have been even in a nearby basement of a home somewhat away from the intense immediate action. I’d be too concerned that the house could be hot by something or soldiers could come crashing through at any moment. Not only that bit if you know about Masonic History and how just like The Masons are responsible for the biggest modern day post Roman empire editing and rewriting of the Bible with their King James (who was a very high level Mason), version of the Bible , you will also know that the Masons are responsible for writing the history books the way that they are. Take a look at the name of the Star Spangled banner. Again if you know about thing like masonic history and secret societies you would know that a Scotts Key is a Masonic emblem, the Scottish rite of masonry is huge. But lets look again at the name, besides Masons being huge in Scotland, and besides many of their practices actually going back to ancient druidic times; modern day Masonry as we know it has its roots in France. So its not the name Frances, But its instead telling you that its the country France as in France’s scott key. These people are and have been laughing at us for a very long time, as if we are all like Jim carry’s character in that movie the Trueman show, gee I wonder why they named it, True-Man show, could there be something to how we think life is and how it actually really is? Thats another thing these elite scums like to do is they like to stick actual truths in our faces in the news,media and things like music and movies. It makes you wonder sometimes about those Sci-Fi movies that sometimes seem like they could be a possibility….?
Besides the limiting of the flow of knowledge these people will then stop at nothing in order to make sure that their luxurious,comfortable way of living above the everybody else doesn’t get threatened. And thats why we have such chaos in the world, and things like the above marathon event! They create order out of chaos. They create the chaos so that they can control it; and the biggest tool they have for creating and controlling this Chaos is the media. Weather real or fake, or weather stories happen as they officially say they happen or not; as long as they can continue to keep everyone surrounded in what appears to be a constant world/state of chaos; the more people will be apt to live their lives worried mostly about just surviving day to day. Which means of course the people in power can keep on running off with all the money,while the majority of us run around like chickens with our heads cut off.
Thankfully on the rise, many people are and have been seeing through their B.S. which is why they have been upping their game and why throughout most of the Western World you are seeing things like the dramatic militarization of the police. Part of me has so much hope for my fellow man and womenkind when it comes to doing the right things and thinking that one day, maybe,just maybe we the people, the underdogs might overcome the oppression against us by the basically 1% cock-sucker elites. But then I’m reminded of things from a few years ago how when George W. Bush Jr. basically stole the presidential election. (which is a shared anyways,but its the point), Instead of their being a mass outcry about the vote count fraud or massive hysterical protests to not allow such an obvious blatant wrong doing; the majority of the population didn’t really care, In fact many thought out was funny or some just were more concerned as usual with the score from the previous nights Monday night football game or something, and by the next day or two they were more concerned with business as usual like how the mainstream media perpetuated for weeks on end the story surrounding the death of Anna Nicole Smith. Because that was more important? Can;t you see when they pull that stuff its so obvious that they are treating you like a child, by allowing you to only know about unimportant trivial things,and not anything of any real importance?????
People you have to question everything, and never trust authority! Never! The game of life is rigged! America is not and never has been a free country. The revolutionary war was a media sham. All of the founding fathers were high level Masons in bed with the very European aristocratic and royal families and secret societies that the supposed revolution was fought against. Stop buying into the whole, “be patriotic and support our troops”thing. How about support your fellow human beings and the next time you hear about any young friends,or family talking about joining the military you try to convince them otherwise,by educating them how its all one big F job; and how the same elite banker/military industrial complex corporate pigs have and always will control both sides of all wars by not only funding each side’s initial expenses needed to buy arms and defense,but in most cases once both sides get their funding; the very arms and defense contractors that they purchase their weapons from in many cases are owned by the same bankers who just loaned them with interest the funds in the very first place to be able to purchase the arms. And if that wasn’t enough,once the many thousand,hundreds of thousands,or in some cases even millions of innocent young soldiers perish once the war is over, the same elites will then send in all the rebuilding contractors that they also own. They send them in to rebuild the very cities and towns that their funds and weapons had just destroyed. And its the same cyle over and over. Think about it, the average person doesn;t want war, they don;t want to send their young children off to die or to kill some other person’s young child. But through the elite’s propaganda they create a mistrust and an us against them mentality so that these young kids by into the whole, be patriotic B.S., how about be humanly loving, forget about what country you were born in we are all the same, two eyes, an A hole and Sex organ people know matter what part of the world you were born in!
Seriously stop believing that these elite people are good, and stop looking the other way or giving them second chances. These people are sick individuals. In many cases their level of sickness goes beyond their lust for money and power; as many of them belong to secret societies that practice bizarre cruel and unusual ancient occult ritualistic behavior that in some extreme cases involve sacrificing animals, even humans, as well as participating in child pedophilia practices! These people are sick, stop buying their media propaganda B.S. Do not feel bad for a grinning politician on television who might have just lost the race. The races are all fixed and besides, that grinning politician up their that you think is probably a nice family man or women like yourself; believe me when I tell you they are not! They would not be in the positions that they were in if they were. And that goes for a lot of your Hollywood actors and main stream musicians as well. Trust me when I tell you if they are in the mainstream in anyway weather its politics,movies, television or mainstream music; they are in the club and are up to no good. They are all sick. In order to reach that level they have to be apart of the many occult behaviors or they’re kept from the mainstream and from making any of the real big money. Sure there are talented people who are so good that the mainstream picks up on them, and maybe a musician comes out of nowhere and releases an amazing album. But chances are if after that initial great album the person raids away from the mainstream public, its probably because they didn’t want to play ball. Many artists if they aren’t already groomed from child hood to do the biding of the elite like a Justin Timberlake or Brittany Spears; once many are discovered or recognized for their talent they are usually given a choice to play ball with the elites or get lost. And I believe those who agree to play ball go on to have repetitive mainstream success. Those that don’t end up as washed up one hit wonders so to speak. And then those who do agree to play ball but later end up crossing the system or elites over, end up in situations like what happened to Kurt Cobain or some of the other mysterious rock star and Hollywood deaths, because again, everything literally everything coming from the television is not the real truth. So they can fill you with propaganda years prior about how Cobain was this always messed up depressed suicidal person, or they can make it seem like his totally drug crazy wife maybe had something to do with his death as a way to detour the blame away from what may have truly happened. But chances are what really happened to Cobain, (and I just used him as an example), wasn’t the real story there. Come on the guy had the world in the palm of his hands. His entire life he dreamed to be able to make a living expressing himself with music through his songwriting. Yes, he tried to make it seem like he felt bad that he went against his underground punk roots by becoming a rich mainstream rock star, but believe me every musician dreams of making it big so they never have to worry about having another day job in their life,and that they can just play music instead. I do not think he killed himself. Ask people who knew him towards the end that weren’t possibly in with the elutes and they all say the same thing that he was not suicidal. Its only those in the industry like his wife who went on to be hugely successful in film, who keeps perpetuating the he was depressed myth. Who knows but, maybe Dave Grohl knows some damaging evidence as to what really happened which is why his Foo Fighters, (although talented), are like the biggest rock band on the planet selling out for multiple nights in a row polices like wembley stadium?
But again that is just an example as I went slightly off topic to explain how nothing is how it really seems in the media.. And if you noticed over the last couple of years, how they made a big deal with regard to everyone owning a TV, how you must upgrade to those new digital cable boxes? Its all digital now. I believe they did that or in some case are still doing that in certain areas because the digital technology can manipulate things. They can alter images and scenes on the fly in real time during live television now. And they even have better than CGI technology that enables them to do almost the opposite of CGI and instead of manipulating the background like CGI does, they can actually create life like avatar characters who look so real most people are fooled on a daily basis. All you have to do is record your local news for a few nights and go over what you recorded in slow detail and you will clearly see this new technology being used. I have to go I typed a ton and I’m running late. Just try to be a good person and never believe the media and do not trust authority, ever!
As I had written the day of the bombing, it was reported on a news site on cable tv, CNN?, that Mitt Romneys son, who stood at the finish line, along with many other prominent people, was whisked away in a black limousine, minutes before the first blast ocurred. The rest were relocated to another area, away from the finish line. The second blast ocurred at a different site where an anti-terrorism drill was being conducted by Homeland Security. Odd coincidense. Fortunately, I had been watching the news, while on a treadmill, when the inital reports were broadcast. Later, the news began to broadcast the second blast, falsely identifying as the initial blast. Again, I had seen the initial recordings of the first blast. The preponderance of credible evidence is nonexistant. As a matter of fact, the evidence that has been presented is grossy contrived, tainted, fabricated, unsupported, contradictory.Tsarnaev bothers had nothing to do with the bombings.
Why in your opinion did that private agency’s employees wear caps with emblems identifying them?
That is the Punisher comic logo with a red X through one of the eyes. On the back of the hat it says “Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems”.
Because that would make it appear that “they were with the government & they couldn’t possibly be to blame”.
Had they been out of uniform, then there would be mush more scrutiny placed upon them.
Single Rucksack strap over the DT’s shoulder would result in a heavy rucksack riding off his shoulder. Good article , BTW
Dzhokhar
Dzhokhar
Dzhokhar
Really too bad, this place should have been humming tonight with a dozen more contributors earnestly trying to contribute in a small way to the greater good.
if anyone hasn’t seen it, please watch the documentary “TWA Flight 800” it is particularly relevant to these times/issues.
available on netflix.
thank you kind people
TWA 800 was taken out by a US Navy missile from a submarine. They were doing a test fire on a drone and the missile lost target of the drone and picked up the plane instead. They didn’t have the balls to admit it was an accident.
From testimony of crash investigators, the official story doesn’t hold up. But what is your basis for the assertion about the test firing? See above our rules: “identify your assertions as fact or speculation.” If you know that for fact, we would love to hear the details.
Hijacking an article’s comments space for your own purposes like this without asking is rude and unproductive. It has also resulted in complaints from other readers. If some of you feel you can work together to advance the story, get your act together, come up with some discipline and a refined research product, and then contact our site via email, including your full identity and contact info, and we can look into it.
No way the comment section was hijacked… I am sorry if there are people out there reading it that way, but I, as a guest, am totally thankful for the serious work these people are putting in to investigate what happened that day. They wrote day after day about ‘backpacks questions’, adding a lot the article itself. I don’t think you are Russ, but if you are, just know that there are many out there thankful for this comment section – I bet many more than the ones that are complaining.
Russ:
For 5 months two of us and then 3 and then 4 and now at least 7 maybe more – have toiled away first on the Collier/Rosebud space and then here sharing information, asking each other questions, forging some fairly clean and original ideas related to this case – far outside a typical conspiracy blog. We are now finding ideas we have written about on our blog page (http://allthingsforum1.blogspot.com/) are being discussed in Congressional hearings and on many alternative sites.
Thank you so much for your patience and understanding letting us “crowd source” on your site – it has been a truly amazing process to be a part of.
As with anything that is beginning to gain traction we are encountering jealousy, ridicule and our share of broadsides – we have never condemned or rejected anyones right to post on this site. We have however, asked some to keep it polite, keep it on task, keep it relevant. The proof is in the pudding as they say – scroll down and see how our efforts are constantly derailed, demeaned – worse the attacks are becoming personal. It is certainly nothing you would want your fine effort here to be a part of.
Honestly, I see no ability of the attackers to moderate themselves – and in at least one case – it appears the attacker suffers from severe mental and emotional problems. I see no way for this person to continue here in any civilized manner. That is the reason we have moved to another forum.
We would certainly love to continue to here and work with the small group of interested persons dedicated to finding out the truth. Whether we can continue depends, unfortunately, up to you. I would ask you or your staff – whoever helps you to moderate these boards to pay closer attention and blacklist the person whose only interest appears to be to disrupt the good work so many of us are doing.
Thank you for your time.
Coach
psss please pardon me for airing the laundry so to speak – I posted for the explicit purpose of letting our legitimate and dedicated contributors know we did not abandon them and we are not quitting.
Can someone send me an email where to go, please? I have major internet problems at home at the moment, so am unable to check in regularly, but I’d like to keep in touch. Thanks!
Sent you email Emma.
thread has been infected by a troll
Dear Mods:
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
tree@forest
Are you who I think you may be ?
Of course, & we are having a very interesting chat over on new space that we cannot have here or share with other readers on WWW, about Todashev, Grassley, terrorism plots, etc. We are being prevented from posting any intelligent back-and-fro by a shameless, vicious cyber-bully who the moderators have shown no interest in reining in.
Saunders – check your inbox again. just sent you the direct URL
tree@forest……the collapse of the tree does indeed make a sound….and sound is remarkably resilient to obstacles. It can become very quiet, but never actually disappears completely. And, with the right type of energy applied, can amplify.
Can you hear a tree fall if it falls in space? And can you spell Foucault (Fouclaut wrong) correctly on forum so you will get hits from his name. And correct my name from A Shooks or Spooks or whatever to abbeysbooks or seymourblogger as it is copyrighted under those names. Forum is not violating copyright by pasting or posting it but changing my name is a violation. Or you can delete it. That’s OK too. I have all mine on my site as I anticipated trouble early on.
Hello AB.
Admin will have to correct Foucault and the names.
Tree: if by ‘space’ you mean a vacuum, then no sound is produced, so there is nothing to hear. Other scenarios are different: sound can be produced but may or may not be heard.
If it’s not heard how can we know there is sound. Yes by measuring with an instrument I suppose. It’s Berkeley’s old argument of the senses. Can they hear us scream in space?
Answer yes it does and the sound goes on forever
Message for Saunders- check your email, if nothing there, check your spam. We have moved.
That sounds like a move in the right direction. At last.
It is impossible to suffer without making someone pay for it; every complaint already contains revenge.
you suffer greatly oh talentless one…..
Someone is going to Nietzsche’s quotes and pasting one. Thank you.
That’s too bad. You’ll lose the help of the several “guests” who have been in here the past few days.
I agree – Sorry so much. It has been a pleasure to get in and work these ideas 4-5-6 hours at a time uninterupted with you and others. But then the jealous one who has nothing to contribute leaves her hateful comments everywhere. And now she is bringing in her friends to make it even worse. Keep an eye out, we are hopeful she will tire or grow bored and we can resume normal posts.
Sorry I work alone like the Lone Ranger.
Please read the above post Guest. Same applies to you.
Which post?
Hello Guest, do you have a name?
Well, that was a selfish move!
The people who support DT are only a minority. You stop talking about it and stir the pot, hide in your corner as soon as you don’t agree with another of DT’s supporter, you do that and everyone will forget about it, the kid will be as you say it so well, amongst the living dead, and nobody will know, nobody will care. You don’t create support and awerness by hidding… Or maybe your primary concern is not really the kid?
Pat I am so sorry. We have a real problem here as I’m sure you can tell. We were on a previous thread before this one and suffered the same fate there I’m afraid. This decision was not taken lightly and it’s the only way we can remain productive and continue our work given what has happened. It really is impossible to do any meaningful work like this – hopefully we will be back as soon as possible so we can pick up right where we left off here. You’re input has been really valuable – hope it will continue.
Why would you label going to your own blog as a way of escaping unwelcome commenters, when it is really a positive move you should have made way long ago. LIke the abused wife, how bad does it have to get before you get out. You belong on your own site as it is a good place to build momentum altho youtube has taken that over now.
Hello patfromuk: how would you recommend we deal with the disruptive, vicious, jealous cyber-bully who is ruining this thread for you and for us? Please advise the best way to handle this, I’d appreciate your input.
Hello Pat. I’ve been out of the loop for a while and am not up to speed. What I can tell you is that the troll-patrol detected some renewed troll activity In the last few days. It is much more serious than the small-minded but vicious personal insults, and primitive destructive ‘interventions’ by the likes of RalienSeven and company. The thread came under a more ferocious attack and was no longer secure. It had to be dealt with very quickly indeed, and I , for one, am still trying to catch up.
This is not about any of ‘us’: Most people here have put in a LOT of time and effort over the months, and my own motivation from the outset has been the very obvious problems with the case from the outset. I remember the Birmingham and Guildford pub bombings, and remember reading of the relentless but lonely fight that had to be made by innocent people who were wrongly imprisoned for so long, and of what their families endured. I cannot begin to imagine the effect of attacks on sanity caused by being innocent of such monstrous crimes, being wrongly convicted, and being widely disbelieved. Paul Hill was still in his teens when arrested – and was the first person to be arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.
There’s many out here in cyberspace for whom this has become a ghoulish entertainment – with the Tsarnaev brothers and their families cast as freakish caricatures.The group here, like the Tsarnaevs, are human, and far from perfect. One of the more dangerous but insidious effects of troll activity is that it creates freakshow episodes: their vicious personal attacks are one thing: but the real damage is in their obvious contempt for all those injured, bereaved, traumatised and accused. In filling space with fake posts, vitriol, meaningless diversions and in hijacking on-line identities to discredit others, this message couldn’t be clearer: ‘NONE of these people matter, because what matters is a wider, hidden agenda, and the protection of egos. And if that means burying any/all meaningful information, well hey,these people are just collateral damage.’
This is not a game, as you know. I for one am glad that you joined, and I appreciate your contributions. I’m still not sure what’s happened/happening, but I do believe that urgent action was necessary. Trolls have no concern for who lives or dies, and (for me, anyway) their activities are attempts to dehumanise and desensitise, and to drive people to a particularly exhausting frustration – in short, to break those who may actually care, people such as yourself.
This really has been severe, but it gives all the more reason to keep at it however we can. Please keep faith here…..
To Saunders & Baker51A
Hello. Well if the “troll” is who I think it is, it is not a new problem. This person have been around for sometime and up to now, the comments were more or less ignored, unless she happened to make a valid comment ,which she did at times. It became out of hand when her behaviour was questioned.It is always best not to answer trolls. True, they are a pain, true they undermine the serious work being carried out and tru they turn the enquiry into a joke and true they don’t help the cause we joined toghether to defend. Anyway, do I have a response or a better idea after all this logorrhea… Well sorry to say no… Do what you think is best.
Pat: It was me who was on troll patrol when I stumbled upon the latest nonsense. This was and is a separate matter from that to which you refer, and as far as I know and believe, did not involve that individual. The attack was of a different type: I believe a new tactic used by previous assailants. part of their manoeuvres involved hijacking abbeysbooks online persona, to discredit AB and make it appear that she was responsible for their garbage: same avatar, slightly different names: what had been posted by RalienSeven suddenly had AB’s avatar and the abbeybooks/abbeyebooks, sign-in.
Another account was hacked: removing the poster’s genuine sign-in name and replacing it with another.
It will disappear not to worry. I am following and if it continues disqus will be notified.
Actually they did that years ago on robsessed. It may have even been some of the same. IDK and care less really. They don’t like that I “get” them as soon as they appear and warn wherever I am that doesn’t “get” them. MOst of the politico places do though.
Someone who had edit privileges? Now whoever could that be? You have a mole in your midst methinks.
Pat from where? The Daily Kos? Robsessed? Knotted-up? Now that’s a snakey, sneaky innuendo. Afraid to be direct and seen?
My personal feeling is that the forum peoples’s agenda is to put all details under the microscope and to get more and more powerful microscopes to do this with. All of this will amount to nothing except cleaning your apartment floor with a toothbrush which is what speed freaks used to do BTW. The forest looks quite different as Boston is not an isolated Event. It combines with many others. Someone somewhere even remarked on the Collier killing resonating with the Tippet police killing in Dallas. Actually we are not even sure Oswald did that, but we do know they would have had a hard time proving his guilt on shooting JFK as it was all circumstantial. But with the tabloid minds of today that would probably fly. I take that back. Arlen Spector’s single silver bullet special did fly in Congress so what can I say. We all laughed but what good did that do.
You are right that no one will care. No one cares about Sacco and Vanzetti now either, or the Pearl Harbor conspiracy by the govt. Or the Maine blowing up, or the Lusitania being sunk. The incidents of history mean nothing until people learn to think genealogically instead of dialectically. It’s the DISCOURSE that has to change, which means the way you think has to change.
Change the way we think?! Now that is a big program.
You think differently, that is fine as long as your “thinking” is not contagious. The masters don’t need thinkers, they need happy consumers. But don’t worry, if you find that difficult, they will insist on feeding you prozac (it’s for your own good).
Easy to ID you now. Better change it again.
I don’t know what are your goals , but this is not my battle.
So stop sniping.
It was Russ Baker’s ‘Rosebud’ article that mentioned the parallel between Collier’s killing and Tippet. You know, the one that you’d been posting comments to for months.
I don’t understand what the difference is between dialectical and genealogical thinking?
Hey all – can we go to our new place and leave her
You have to stop :)
Is this what I had to do to get you to move!
I’ll never be to far away….
It’s too not to. To is a preposition taking an object. Too is an adverb modifying an adjective. I’ll be looking forward to giving you grammar lessons, coachie boi.
1113
I’m very easy to find.
I see his aggression pleases you. Remember I said that.
Can everyone please check – I just sent out a group email. If you do not see in in your inbox it is probably in your spam. Thanks. (Renny – I included you too)
Nothing in my inbox, nothing in my spam either.
Just sent it again Renny! If nothing I sent you a direct URL instead.
Just been re reading through the Grassley letter and (lack of ) response. Does anyone mind if I do a quick post addressing the issues brought up re the images? He really seems to be asking the same questions we have been asking for 6 months. When were they identified precisely (very quickly obviously), why did they go public so soon etc? We’ve said all along this was rushed – I’m not going near the photoshopping angle as that is for others but just the hurried nature of the whole thing. Thoughts?
No holds barred. Adios amigos.
Aw God. Don’t say that. My no holds barred is like releasing a wild animal. I often get carried away…will try my hardest not to.
Check your inbox
.
I received one email from an unknown email address. Is it you Saunders?
Your radar is good, Renny.
Saunders – hopefully this will be the last time I have to write this – can you please check your inbox?!? there’s an invite and I am waiting in a certain place for a reply.
Have responded. All is in order. Thanks.
More efficiency. Wow.
It’s definitely not me.
It’s a scary time when S and I agree on events, but here goes. My problem all along with the innocence of DT is just this–if one had set down a package in an area where a bomb exploded killing two people, one of them a little boy when I had so many nieces and a nephew of whom I was obviously fond, wouldn’t a trip to the police be in order–I didn’t do it, I was just dropping off a package for a drill.
And yet, DT does not take the innocent man way out. Now granted, it could be because if you are Chechen, you do not trust any govt or LE, but DT has been touted as more American/assimilated than the other members of his family. If you are innocent, go to the police just as did the two little boys initially mis-identified by the Reddit crowd.
And DT and bro also fail to call Boston police (we think) after being identified on television. Coach believes they went (post FBI release of their photos) to their agency handlers who set them up for the ‘drill’ and said–what are we to do?–that’s why they were so mysteriously circling Watertown for a couple of hours after the 5PM announcement. It’s why they were caught unawares by Officer Reynolds and started firing on him (we speculate–and they had no pressure cooker bombs they lobbed–that’s been put the bed as well.) Okay, good with that. It’s the only explanation that makes sense.
Two more elements that don’t fit if they are guilty:
a) Why wear your usual gear if you are setting a bomb in a crowd? Many comments in the media that DT’s friends recognized him as a result of his hat.
b) No attempt to run or conceal themselves in days following bombing–even after the FBI announced immediately they were looking at photographic evidence from the scene, asking everyone to submit what they had, setting up FBI site to collect images. Had to know they’d been captured on film by someone or a fixed camera.
Logically–if you are going to kill people with a bomb in a public place, either you take great care to conceal yourself from discovery (and later you release a terrorist manifesto–the lack of which was what ‘worried’ the terror experts–brothers never took credit for it, and neither did anyone else) or you blow yourself up doing so (lots of examples of this in the Middle East) OR you run so you cannot be caught–no, they hung around. The failure to react to a threat to their own safety is the biggest disconnect–because they did react on Thursday night after photos released–they somehow foolishly ended up in a gunfight with a bunch of sleepy Watertown cops.
If I compile all these facts, Saunders work on the photographs, plus the Land video, Saunders can only be right.
It’s unlikely DT was in front of the Forum where the bomb exploded–if he wasn’t there on the patio, he had no reason to expect he was going to be accused of it. Same for TT.
However, if DT had set down a pack (with or without a pressure cooker packed with explosives) in front of Forum for a drill or whatever reason, and it later exploded–let’s just say he did–wouldn’t you realize you were in trouble, call your parents (he’s just 19) looking for help, an explanation, a plan, some way to get away? Wouldn’t you or they call your lawyer uncle in the U.S. and ask for help? if you realized you had a problem wouldn’t you turn to family for help? (that Mrs. T interview Renny posted–she said the uncle agreed would help get a good attorney for DT–but this call took place after he had been captured)
It’s because all these puzzles have no answers that we all have questions. So I come back to Saunders–DT was never on the Forum patio–at least within the relevant time frame for the explosion. Someone else set the black backpack with a timer on it. Perhaps it did go off a few minutes early–maybe it was meant to blow up TT who was supposed to be standing there, not DT, and solve a problem he may have been causing.
And I’ve also thought, S, that if we had access to other CCTV camera footage around the area, we’d probably find where TT was stationed, because it wasn’t at Marathon sports if there are no photos of him there.
So we come back to the question BB and Mrs P have been examining–who set down the black backpack that exploded at Forum and Marathon? And coach’s questions–who hijacked the drill, or decided to kill Americans at a public event that would be instantly broadcast worldwide? Who benefits from heavily televised U.S. deaths and maiming of innocents? With a $17 trillion dollar deficit and the obvious need to rein in spending.
Agree with all of the above apart from one niggling problem. DT’s defense have indicated they have seen a vid of him setting a bag down.
I’ve made the connection. Thanks
Hooray!
where?
Check your email please
I have ???? nothing but crickets
Have just sent you another one. Check your spam.
This is efficient.
Yes, let’s add some extra steps and send it all by email instead of a link right here and now.
You fell right into her trap of dumbness.
the blue dog said woe
Is that a fact.
BB, did you pull the 129 filing from emptywheel’s link? (Indi or Renny posted it–somewhere waaaay down thread) it’s the only doc that appears legit.
Wouldn’t it be nice to have that linked on your very own blog so you could get it right away instead of having to spend all that time going down thread to try to find it? No of course not. Let’s make it as hard as we can for everyone since I can’t figure out what to do or how to do it and won’t listen to anyone who knows.
Goody. Do they have a vid for all the other 1000 or so bags that were also set down – and left – or just a vid of his one single bag being set down.
Sorry I’ve missed the last few hours: where can I see what the defence has indicated ?
I did send the Grassley doc as what I thought was the original link, but I’ll check again.
I’ll get to the details later, but as far as going to the police if you’ve nothing to fear….that sense only if your perspective of LE is that it’s all that it purports to be: ‘protect and serve’, or whatever it is they have . Any other experience, and you’d be wary. If you knew that other more powerful forces were at work, you’d be alert to the possibility that there’s collusion. There’s nobody to trust. Dzh.T, so it appears, was unaware of his ‘suspect’ status until his pals texted/tweeted him. In an instant he’s gone from anonymous kid to America’s Most Wanted. The only person he can count on is Tamerlan. People don’t always act rationally, or what appears so from the outside. The family background is loaded with all the baggage of political asylum. None of the refugees I know here have much trust in ANY branch of government or LE. Going to the police would have been suicide. It’s his word against the FBI’s….and the FBI always have superior intel, right ?
Dzh.T is in several aspects, not as Americanised as he appeared to be. This says nothing about his character, but about others’ perceptions about what it IS to be Americanised. Clothes, accent, habits, friends…all visible signs of assimilation. Even the acceptance of ‘Jahar’ as a name…and all of these very real and honest. However, the unseen but equally real consequences of being part of a refugee family – quite something else.
EDIT: and I think that the handlers were also taken by surprise. Somebody froze, and then the expedient course of action was to fling the brothers under the first bus.
EDIT: and meanwhile, over here in ‘fair play’ Britain, the Bishop of Southwark himself was stopped more than 40 times in 12 months for driving whilst black. He had a decent motor, in good condition…going about his legitimate business, but obviously there was something dodgy about him, right ? The Lawrence family were spied on: sometimes the most innocent have very good reason to be wary of LE.
S: How about “living in a home whilst black”–here’s the link. Do you remember this case? http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2009/07/22/cornel-west-on-race-and-politi/
(this is why I remember FBI/MSM first said they were looking for two dark-skinned men, because several comments came out and a specific article by a Muslim man–how d*** relieved they all were to learn it wasn’t a Muslim responsible for the bombings–alas.
Yes, I can believe it. What’s next, ‘breathing whilst black’ ?
There was a classic a few years ago here in a legendary satirical publication….referring to the magnificent Desmond Tutu as ‘the first openly black archbishop of Cape Town’. ;) Takes a swipe at a few things there alright.
Please stop. You are making everyone look like idiots by association. Have you forgotten that Harvard professor of some reknown that didn’t have his key to get in his house coming from the airport who got arrested by the white cop, because he was insulted by the attitude of the white cop racially profiling him as a burgler or robber when he was trying to get in his own home! Stuff like that happens every day. do you think these boys were not stopped frequently for no reason just because they looked middle eastern. Do you have to say stuff like this just because you have nothing original to say, then make someone who is patient explain and teach you a more logical way to think. These people are busy and don’t have time to take you to school every time you comment. Just keep quiet and learn.
Do you really want to be involved in a group with someone who proposes such idiocy that you then have to explain why not in all those paragraphs. Hopeless thinking.
also, in their culture of origin you CAN’T trust the police. ever. so they both would have the instincts to run.
they might have a point.
I’m American and I wouldn’t trust LE enough to go and turn myself in, innocent or not. I know from Viet Nam protesting how they made/make things up to jail you.
Go look at the 7 hour documentary. Your reasoning is adolescent. If you were innocent why wouldn’t you go to the police and tell them you put your backpack down. LOL! ROTFL! I can’t even believe you thought that much less wrote it.
If you watch that 7 hour documentary by that boy/young man your answer is there. In the beginning when he is doing O’Reilley and Glen Beck. Glen Beck points out a man in shadows with an earpiece who makes a call as the Tsarnaevs walk by in that image we all know as one follows the other down the sidewalk through the crowd. As soon as they appear he makes the call. He has been watching for them or for someone looking like them that fits the profile they want, but I think they know who they are and it is they that they want to frame before the bomb ever goes off. This is a surveillance video released by the FBI that I am sure you know only this one is uncut. Then it rolls from the opposite perspective and the man in the shadows is more visible so he is blurred out so you can’t see him or what he is doing and you would never know unless you had watched it from the opposite perspective. Beck of all people, who says they want to frame the Tea Party for this, says they are caught on tape in the act of framing the Tsarnaevs. And they have the posters for the camera of them and say they are who they are looking for. AND DON’T LOOK FOR ANYONE ELSE IN THE PICTURES. Just these that we are showing you. You may eat the fruit of all the trees in my garden EXCEPTING the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Here it is the same only inverted.
Does the FBI blow off Congressional hearings very often?
Hmmmm. Seem to with this case. Couldn’t even be bothered to show up.
I guess Grassley is so far down on the food chain that the FBI doesn’t have to pay attention to him.
They blow off Grassley which is why.
Grassley is just for show. You took him seriously. I think you might like this site to give you some ideas on how this works. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/09/how_does_the_shutdown_relate_t.html TLP is very very good and only gets better with time.
Geez us you guys! I thought we made progress yesterday! You have taken off again. just read through your work – agree agree agree – I have something else I woke up with – Later – have to go coach right now – catch up in a few.
C
I’ll re-post it here, Coach – Todashev’s wife claims to have bank statements proving he was with her in Atlanta at the time of the Waltham murders.
“Sources have said the two men were also involved in an unsolved triple homicide two years ago in Waltham, Massachusetts, but Manukyan said joint bank statements prove Todashev was with her in Atlanta at the time of the 2011 slayings.”
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/council-of-american-islamic-relations-calls-for-probe-into-fbi-shooting/-/1637132/20347442/-/krp0u6z/-/index.html
The thing is – how do joint bank statements prove he wasn’t there? If they had joint credit/debit cards etc that show they were spending in another area of the country at the time, that only proves ONE of them was absent – not necessarily both. Of course, if they’d applied for a loan at the bank that had entailed a face to face meeting or something that would be a different kettle of fish…..but she doesn’t say that. Just the joint statements. We need more.
Yes. I agree. I thought if they had 2 separate cards – one for him and one for her – and his showed some purchase or maybe a visit to a venue in Atlanta – that could prove something. Otherwise, IDK. I just posted it, because it was stated somewhere that she had photographs. I didn’t find anything specific regarding the bank statements. I’ll see if I can find anything else.
she also mentions pictures – which I cannot find anywhere (Shibley mentions he has them too) – but where are they if they have them?
No mention of pictures on her VKontakte profile or her sister’s tumblr that she set up for the purpose of getting an investigation into his death. I know that Shibley mentioned them, but they probably won’t publish them to protect their Mom. I’d assume she has got them with her in Russia, but maybe she left copies to Shibley?
This article is from May 30th, so they changed their plan about making the records public, it appears.
“Shibly, of the Islamic relations council, said his group was gathering expenditure receipts that showed that Todashev was traveling in Atlanta with his wife when law enforcement officials say the Waltham killings took place. Shibly said those records will be made public soon.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/30/nation/la-na-nn-fbi-shooting-boston-bombing-20130530
They are not evidence in a court of law and that is the only place they can have any credibility.
keep drinking you will be asleep soon -oh wait you already are!!!
Is that a fact.
Sorry, Coach. I went through at least 30 articles and all of them say she claims to have records or receipts proving he was with her in Atlanta. No mention of pictures, not even once.
This is absurd. She has no chain of her evidence.
IT DOESN’T MATTER! You are not in a court of law. He is dead. You can’t even subpoena the surveillance images. All this dumb crap keeps undermining your credibility at forum. Not just yours BTW as I didn’t mean just you.
glad you cleared that up….wow that must have hurt
Is that a fact.
I agree. But why do you have to waste your time explaining this. Why are you trying to “dance in chains?”
For someone who claims to be trying to save DT – you are killing the work that would save him.
Is that a fact.
Unless Todashev was standing trial in court under oath, this means doo doo.
…and another INBOX check….
S, before I forget, I believe C and I were thinking the photo of DT (the one used in the railing analysis you did) was taken by the Forum surveillance camera, was based on both the photo showing the Forum has a surveillance camera in the outside furthest east corner beneath the awning and Ghenk’s mention of a surveillance camera, as well as the interview with the Forum’s owner who said FBI told him his surveillance camera had provided photos leading them to the bombers.
But now I’ve been thinking, what if some doctored data was submitted to the FBI in that deluge of photos and video submitted by the public, data that was prepared in advance for the FBI to discover and not question? And as you have made plain in your analysis, wasn’t questioned until it was too late to retract and realize the timings didn’t work? assume to be generated by a legit source, and used without question?
Quite possible that there was a joker in the pack,especially as these images have quite a colourful history and are unattributable. But where they come from is anybody’s guess.
I doubt that the railing image was taken by the Forum surveillance camera. The angles and perspectives are all wrong. To get that image, the Forum camera would have to be located at the far end, to the left of the Dzh.T figure and the pink skull woman figure. It is not: it is located to the right of both. (ie looking into the street.) Genck stated specifically that it was the camera ‘affixed above the door’ of the Forum.
That image cannot, in all sanity, be taken to be a photograph in any normal sense of the word. It is a composite, and a very bad one. The ‘Forum’ rails are just the front barrier rails duplicated. Most, if not all of the figures have been cut & pasted in. One (at least one) of those images has been interpolated to a ridiculous degree, to no good effect – at least to no good effect if the intention was kosher. One file is 57 times larger than the other. Once you interpolate in excess, the ‘higher resolution’ means nothing apart from serving to blur/conceal whatever was there in the first place. It’s not a photograph in any normal sense. There’s no evidence that it even existed prior to the 16th.
But I imagine that it would have been mannah from Heaven to LE….without them ever knowing that in accepting it, they’ve relinquished control of the ‘investigation’..
S: excellent analysis and logical conclusions–agree completely. I simply meant we were drawing conclusions based on those particular facts, and others might readily have come to the same conclusions–it ‘appeared’ to make sense, but actually didn’t. (and there’s DT’s missing foot–rather a large problem to overcome)
And yes, I am willing to speculate, based on your discoveries, that some ringers were slipped into the Public’s submissions and may have been unwittingly taken as accurate in the rush to find the perps. (just possible, not saying it happened that way.)
And if I recall Ghenk stated that camera saw all the way around up to and past AF. Those shots of DT, unless wildly cropped do not have anything like the wide angle that was suggested.
Missie, do you know when was this picture of Forum taken?
Renny: i can’t remember which one is which, but neither has any indication of a history prior to the 16th.
Sorry Renny, I thought you meant the image that we’d been discussing.
No :) I mean the one in Missie’s post. It’s a pic of the Forum. Looks like from Google StreetView. Just wanted to confirm when it was taken. We both know that those pics are not pics.
Right, sorry. The GoogleMaps images I have area from 2011. However, I do have a few shots where that red box (alarm ? camera?) is still there above the door.
Yeah, the red box is there, but I think that’s an alarm. My Google image is from 2011 as well. But where in Missie’s pic on the left hand side you can see brackets for holding something – in my pic there is a huge box – but that’s not there anymore. It doesn’t appear in any pics from April 15th, pre or post blast.
You don’t know it it was shopped in, shopped out, if it was really there, really taken down there. so you have 4 choices. Place your bets, all bets down.
Hi R, thinking pre-blast….do you believe otherwise? I can check later–running out with spouse for some spouse-time! :)
No, I believe that’s correct. The tree is green, so it must have been taken last year, if pre-blast. Is it from Google StreetView? Do you know? Not important now. Have a good time!
Also Missie…if those two images were supposed to have been ‘taken’ in quick succession, how long did it take pink skull woman to get from behind the back railings to the barriers at the front ?
good comment–LOL–pink skull scarf woman must have been a witch!
i can’t access the photo gallery, so i’m never sure what y’all need.
i have a couple pics of skullscarf with injuries. lemme know.
I’ve already put a link up on the youtube shopping of that image showing the shopping and its affect on the railing, the bag, without going into detail on the rest of it that would included Dzhokhar’s presence back there in his funny looking white hat and extra large nose. Just seeing how the bag was done is enough. If you were commenting on your own blog you might have this link at your fingertips but probably not as I wouldn’t be there.
It was and you can see it in that 7 hour documentary. It’s in the part where Glenn Beck of all people is showing where a man in the shadows with an earpiece is making a call as soon as he sees the Tsarnaevs walking by in single file. And then the FBI blurs the man and what he is doing right out when you see it from the opposite perspective. They were waiting for them to walk by in that replayed and replayed video. These are the ones we are going to hang it on. And to have Glenn Beck defending them is beyond my understanding.
thats a short trip
Time for an INBOX check.
You said you’ll be out of the loop for the weekend :)
I know…..I’ve just grabbed 5 minutes…I don’t know why I went in that particular direction…..but maybe it’s just luck.
Got it.
The drill, the 12-man ‘cell’. 6 teams of 2. For each team, one with a fake bomb, the other with a fake detonator and/or the smoke-bombs. That gives each team one big backpack, and one smaller, lighter one. Pay-as-you-go anonymous cellphones via which to give the fake word – bought just prior to the drill, to be used for that purpose only, and then discarded, but in a way they could be subsequently ‘discovered’.
The real bombs NOT inadvertently carried by the brothers: far easier for the hijackers to plant them in locations where they knew the brothers were assigned to be. Timers: much more reliable than RC. FEDs in the crowd ready to pounce at (say) 3pm. After 14:42, TT vanishes completely. Perhaps he stood in a certain place in the vicinity as assigned, to be caught on camera, but because of the hijack, never got to carry out the instructions. He may be on surveillance video, but not doing what was alleged. No incriminating surveillance evidence at either venue. ‘We didn’t do it !’
There were 5 bombs (or maybe 6…..)
What a coincidence.
Teams of two?
Are you up to date with your inbox ?
Am now.
A small detail….one of the articles below said that TT became effectively stranded in Cambridge without any passport – having legged it sharpish after the death of Plotnikov. He never collected his Russian passport.
‘Will box for passport’…..reported that he’d rather represent the US than Russia – indeed no wish to represent Russia full stop. It was reported that his Kyrgysz passport had expired, but his new one was to be a Russian one. Was that the only one he could get, or was there more to it ?
I would think that he could have had his Kyrgyz passport renewed if he wanted. He was born in Russia, so he could get a Russian one. But as you said that’s not what he wanted. I think he really wanted an American one and he might have been promised one? In exchange for something?
..In exchange for several things…especially if he was cornered. No citizenship means a constant threat of deportation: adios to his child, his wife, and the rest of the family. Does a Russian passport give greater freedom of movement than (say) a Kyrgysz, Daghestani, document ?
No idea, I believe the Russians need to get visa to enter the EU countries and the US as well. But they might be less restricted when travelling to other countries (Asia, Middle East, etc.). Don’t know about Kyrgyz or Dagestani (isn’t Dagestan officially part of the Russian Federation? I think they have Russian passports as well).
God knows….
I’ll ask someone. He’s an immigration officer.
Any of you experiencing problems with your comps? My laptop crashed down yesterday and I couldn’t restart it. Whatever happened to it, it burnt the battery completely…
Yes. I had a 45min delay on my emails yesterday for several hours then my comp crashed and would not turn back on.
When I managed to turn mine back on, my antivirus stated that it was de-activated and that my PC was “at risk”. When I opened the antivirus programme, everything was showing as active and up-to-date. And I’m having some problems today again.
Yes! My anti virus stated the same! I re installed it all this morning just to be sure. Not having any problems now though. Wonder what is going on?
Someone is not happy about what we found out?…
What did we find out? Nothing that’s not already out there. We were just speculating for a good part of the day.
I don’t know…maybe it’s something we haven’t realized yet. It happened on Friday morning, after we were posting those backpack pics with Coach. That’s when it happened to me at least… And maybe our speculations are going the right direction…
Saunders – can you please fill Renny in by email? Can you just explain the ‘topics’ we you identified and we discussed briefly over the last few days. thanks
BB – have to vanish, and now. I’m not deserting. I know where to find you. See your inbox. Onward ;)
Yep. With a Russian passport you can travel to at least 95 countries visa-free or with visa-on-arrival (confirmed with Wikipedia) as of June 2013 (most of South America and Asia). Dagestan is part of the Russian Federation, so Dagestani people get Russian Federation passsports as well. As to a Kyrgyzstani passport, they only seem to have a visa-free access to the former countries of the Soviet Union (Russia included).
It looks like the brothers other Uncle – Alvi has some interesting connections too. This from the article I posted just below:
The other uncle of the alleged Boston bombers, Alvi S. Tsaranev of Silver Spring, Maryland, not far from his brother Ruslan’s home, is apparently affiliated with another Chechen exile organization, the United States-Chechen Republic Alliance Inc., with an address of 8920 Walden Road, Silver Spring, Maryland 20901-3823. The address is also that of Alvi S. Tsarnaev. The registered officer for the organization is listed U.S. Internal Revenue Service filings as Lyoma Usmanov. The organization is registered as a charitable organization engaged in «International Economic Development».
In the book, Power and Purpose: U.S. Policy Toward Russia after the Cold War, by James M. Goldgeier and Michael McFaul, the latter the present activist and neo-conservative U.S. ambassador to Russia who has directly intervened in Russian politics to seek the ouster of President Vladimir Putin from power and stir up secessionist, religious, and political extremists throughout the Russian Federation. According to this book, former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski was Usmanov’s sponsor in the United States: «Brzezinski helped to establish and finance Chechen representation in the United States headed by Usmanov».
So what does this make Anzor? He is too well-spoken to be a simple mechanic. He is too well groomed – too well versed – too much something. He very well may be the boys father and his grief is palpable…but?
It is still niggling at me – something I read a while back
Anzor wasn’t always a mechanic. In Kyrgyzstan he was some sort of official in the prosecutor’s office. So it stands to reason he would be poised and articulate.
I knew it! I read something – months ago and I cant find it in my files – but anyway – there is something else to him. I originally thought a connection to Todashev’s dad but that appears to be a real longshot – but there is more to him and why he was able to get his family here relatively easily as compared to others in his/their situation. Anything else you can find – please dont hesitate.
I know I read it in more than one place, but here’s where I just found the reference http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/shot-at-boxing-title-denied-tamerlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0
“Relatives said Anzor Tsarnaev came to America in April 2002 and won
political asylum, which also likely covered his wife and children. The country he feared persecution in is Kyrgyzstan, the former Soviet republic where he was born, according to a federal official who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Maret Tsarnaeva, Anzor Tsarnaev’s sister, told the Wall Street Journal that
Tsarnaev was fired from his job in the prosecutor’s office in Kyrgyzstan after
the second war erupted in Chechnya. She said he suffered persecution in
Kyrgyzstan because he was Chechen, and that she helped write his application
for asylum.
“We were lucky to take him out of Kyrgyzstan alive,” Tsarnaeva, who lives in Canada, said in an interview broadcast online after the bombings.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/07/04/wake-marathon-attack-questions-about-safe-harbor-for-ibragim-todashev/iTe3zMwBZxh46u9l5N2SWL/story.html
Mr.Tsarnaev got political asylum in his own right. Dzh.T was with them, and was included ‘by extension’. Probably Mrs.T qualified by extension as well ? The others were left with relatives,
I know, it was only DT who came with his parents, the other siblings stayed behind. I thought it’s automatic when you come with wife and a child that you’re given asylum as a family.
Yeh, it does extend like that.
anzor and zu founded a company called something like credit collections bureau when they first arrived in states. what became of it, idk, but i know that’s a good money laundering business. just something that struck me as out of place about it.
i have wondered if anzor was tamerlan’s bio father. the fact that they were married on 10/20 and tt was born the next day always seemed weird to me. Plus, tt looks nothing like his siblings, and he’s so much bigger than the other males in that family…
they’re all too articulate and comfortable speaking on camera to be simple folks, imo.
Yep – interesting – Tamerlan a washed up boxer breaking bones for loan shark dad? Hmm where have we heard that before? (I know I am reaching – couldnt help it – just so American).
The biology question though is obvious – you cant help but notice it – and then ignore it and move on.
ya gotta link? Missie would want me to ask – she kind of keeps tracks of our sources….
i can source the credit business thing, but the rest is speculation.
one thing i could never understand is why the strap of jt’s pack was all gerrymandered the way it was. i have never seen it done like that, the second strap over the shoulder strap, and it looks like he added more strap in front, and what the hell is all going on there? it looks purposeful.
then i saw this video. i do think it a good idea to see this vid eventually, but what’s germaine right now is at 1:55
see what you think. got my heart pounding!
http://vimeo.com/41709220#
wow – I dont know what to make of it. Ever since DHS made that little mouse like announcement in the back pages of the Globe in June – I have had my doubts. I expressed then openly – that if any of this was Urban Shield our efforts were futile – because we would never know the difference between what was fabricated and what was real. The same thing can be said today. But I do think we are closer to saying today whether fabricated or real – and there is a difference.
C it is making me insane, the guessing. Was rereading from early days when we were told LE was looking for one or two dark skinned males. Then switched over to the bros and nary a peep to question. So if the location front of forum was selected for thinner crowd and good visibility from lord and Taylor surveillance video was it a drill or a setup might DT have taken the pack and location ( one or both) meant for TT? The only photo I trust is seale’s showing DT was present. If TT had been the one at forum, we would have no DT photos. TT would have been killed in watertown quite possibly and that would have wrapped up the case. therev would now be no visual evidence against DT at the race finish. Our conversation would be different. Is it possible the story about TT was already assembled
that is an interesting twist – had not thought of that before. But its plausible if the photos are all shopped. Explains why they all look like a shop of a shop and everyone is pulling thier hair out wondering WTF?
…a shop of a shop of a shop of a composite assembled from god-knows-what. Including….those fake railings are (by sheer fluke of circumstance of course…) identical to the barrier railings. Fancy that ….! I don’t think that even The Contour Twins knew that, and they were right on the spot..
Heh, so you agree with me on the railings?
Absolutely, Renny – from the outset ! That’s what I meant when I said I knew we were on the same wavelength….part of why I wanted you credited in the write-up. It’s exactly those sort of details that betray the fraud, but if we don’t spot them,we’re knackered, we’d get nowhere. The more we spot, the better. I hesitate to mention anything to do with entertainment in this case, but it really is like Columbo – the tiny details, the seemingly insignificant errors, that’s where most of it’s at.
I thought I mentioned it off-thread, but I can’t be sure. Maybe it’s in the draft of my next reply.
The runners in the Bob Leonard photos crossing the line BEFORE the timestamp of the Bob Leonard shots: the BL shots stamped at 14:41 – 14:42..that particular correspondence with Genck’s description of the brothers’ specific movements, with Genck specifically mentioning 14:41 – 14:42…all tiny details, but enough to raise my suspicions that there was no surveillance footage as alleged. Genck was relying on the BL images and had no way of knowing that the times were wrong. If there’d been all this ‘surveillance footage’ for real, the fact of the error would have surfaced, and Genck would not have been reliant on it. No surveillance (or at least no USEFUL surveillance). After Bob Leonard, there’s virtually nothing. Even the only attribuatable fleeting glimpses of the brothers subsequent to that were all shots from civilians.
Tiny details can be priceless, and you’re good at it.
I actually did my own calculations regarding their movements, based on the assumption that the Whiskey’s camera was correctly timestamped – 14:37:40. I did calculations for slow walk and fast walk, and according to both they were at Back Bay at around 14:38. So, yeah, BL shots have a wrong timestamp. If you’re right and Mr. Genck based his claims on these photos, it’s quite astonishing, because he could have just Googled the distance between Back Bay and Forum to realize that (as you have pointed out in your False Gods post) the brothers couldn’t have walked 200 metres in 15 seconds. As you say, the times of the runners prove it as well. I’m trying to give Mr. Genck the benefit of a doubt by assuming he saw some sort of surveillance which showed the brothers at 14:41 at Atlantic Fish. Thus stating they were in the front of Forum in 15 seconds, which according to Google is the walking distance between Atlantic Fish and Forum. I don’t think he ever saw the brothers anywhere past Atlantic Fish though.
…and if you slice it the other way, it still doesn’t work, because Genck does not specify what ‘one half-block’ actually is. He doesn’t name the business premises in front of which the brothers were standing before their 15-second stride to the Forum. There’s landmarks all over the place. Traffic lights, pedestrian crossing markings, the junction with the Ring Road, clearly-identifiable businesses…but instead we have ‘approximately half-way’,,,’approximately one half-block’….’approximately 15 seconds’…
If he’s seen them at Atlantic Fish at 14:41, then they could have got to the Forum in 15 seconds, but that makes the block some 60m shorter than it actually is. Surveillance ?
They never thought to Google anything. It’s not the fact of an error, but its sheer magnitude that’s surreal. I’ve done a post entitled ‘Brothers Tarnaev vs, Usain Bolt’, but it’s not up yet. Must post….
I don’t know where he got this “half-block” from. Forum is not half-block from anywhere, it actually is one full block from Back Bay if not further. He probably never looked at a map. Could he be prosecuted for false statements? He signed it without confirming the basic facts…
That’s what I’ve wondered for months. The problem is, I think, that prosecutions go forwards on ‘best evidence’, with things like criminal complaints and their affidavits consigned to hearsay status – inadmissible, so don’t have to be accounted for by whoever signed them. The difficulty now is that the new ‘best evidence’ is far less detailed than that claimed in the criminal complaint. However, (and I don’t know much about law) there may be a mechanism by which whoever signed the affidavit could be questioned in the context of ‘fitness to testify’…possible impeachment of Govt. witnesses.
I’ve seen them Renny. Against my better instinct I have to say yes. I agree with you about those railings…
Great! That’s 3 of us! Why is it against your better instinct?
Because………I never see anything that people claim to be shopped unless it’s undeniable and backed up with data. Then I always look for an alternative reason just to be sure. Those railings are….those railings…
Right. That’s a sensible approach. In my country there’s a saying “Do trust, but always check”. I think with those railings there’s no way around it though.
I have to agree. there is no way round it. And I’ve tried to find one I can tell you that much. Can you scroll down and give me your opinion on the friend in the gym I just posted about please.
that motherf34ker could not look more similar to tamerlan’s backpack!!
i know it isn’t the backpack, but it just had to look super close…just to taunt us!!!!
before the bmb, i never even heard the term false flag! this event woke me up.
and i’m old! too old for a paradigm shift!
i believe there is a difference…just harder to discern these days.
that’s the most nefarious purpose of the disinfo campaign: to make us question our judgement
In simulated Reality there is only credibility. Judgement becomes impossible. The signifier and the signified are now detached and floating free.
Pure Nazi propaganda eh. One ideology after another.
I think that most, if not all families have somebody who appears not to fit. But then going sideways or backwards in the family tree you often see where it comes from.
You do know that he was a lawyer in Russia, right?
Just returned from a good 30min diving mission down thread. Does anyone have to hand that pic showing the face of the friend at the gym with TT and DT three days before the bombings? It’s a massive long shot but I think I may have something…in Chechnia.
No worries if not – I will attempt another mission if needs be.
This photo?
Oh! And there it is! Thanks Missy. I thought I saw a pic of a guy in Chechnia who looks like him- and he does. Will get back 2 you.
More on bags for you BB: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/10/boston-police-bomb-squad/#comment-1097037026
“Brown is a big man, with long arms and a loping step. As it happened, his unit had recently conducted intensive counterterrorism training with a retired Israeli bomb technician who taught them how to quickly assess and cut into suspicious packages found near victims at a still-warm blast scene. During the simulation, the dozen bags that needed to be cleared looked overwhelming. Now there were hundreds.”
Thanks AB – interesting catch. All those big black backpacks on those private security operatives, eh ?
So many left he had to call for reinforcements to help him look. Now how would anyone tie them to the Tsarnaevs? This 7 hour documentary is a killer. Coach says he saw it but I never know if that is to insult me or because he really did. But even if you have seen it, to watch it retrospectively after having noticed all the little details it is enriched tenfold. I am at 4 hours 8 minutes and have just finished almost with the Watertown police talking about killing and capturing Tsarnaevs. The interviewer is off to me, as if he is pretending to be an interviewer and the cops are just spontaneous and joyous. And I can’t tell if they were in on it or not. Surely they know about all the bullets they fired and how the houses were strafed as if in a war zone. This kid is very good though. Most of it is his reading prepared text that is dense and accurate IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjX8KBZ0VY Danny as a Chinese with his face blurred out. Now that’s strange. I want to post it and link to all sorts of other stuff.
Danny as ANYTHING in the shadows….
In the 7 hour documentary by the young man/boy he begins with Glenn Beck who is showing surveillance videos put out by the FBI. In that now famous shot of the Tsarnaevs salking one behind the other along, Beck shows a man in the shadows who picks up his earphone/telephone and makes a call. He comments that the man who has an ear piece is telling someone that they have just walked by. In this photo both have their backpacks on and it is before the explosion. When the shot is picked up by another video camera from the other direction, the man in the shadows has his face blurred. Beck is harping on this. See they don’t want you to know who he is, the one with the ear piece sho made a call as soon as the Tsarnaev brothers walked by. Who is this man he says.
This is just one small segment. O’Reilley and Beck are figuring that the Tea Party will be set up and blamed for this. Beck is saying he thinks these two walking by with backbacks, one who is wearing a white hat, are the ones who will be the patsies. And he calls them patsies. All this is surprising to me for sure.
“Danny” is completely blurred out and I forget where in the tape he is now but it is maybe 3 hours, 2 hours? and he has a Chinese accent but not the kind I have heard and I lived in Singapore for about a year. He says he gts out of the car, Tamerlan tries to grap him, while Dzhokhar is in the convenience store, and he runs and doesn’t look back. But where does he run. Just across the street to the Shell station (think it is Shell) and tells him in there to call 9-11 that the bombers are over there in his car that they hijacked from him. The interviewer tells him he is the hero but he says the cops are the real heroes.
I see now there is no real packaged truth in this. Each person will have to look at pieces and fragments and come to their own truth and it is going to be for different reasons for everyone. There is a moment in this when you SHIFT. When what you were thinking before and suddenly are not thinking that anymore but are feeling the mental ground beneath you start to move. For me it was Dave’s site and reading 18 fuggin posts with after bombing images and his text. There was just too much there for me to continue to believe it was all a real bombing and that the official narrative based on what people at the scene said, didn’t match the images.
The people we think are dead may be in fact dead. They may also be living somewhere else with different identities. This seems to be what they are doing with Miriam Carey’s 1 year old daughter they are holding in foster care.
The impressive thing about this 7 hour documentary is that other things are tied in with it. The Boston Marathon Bombing does not stand alone in govt perfidy.
And everybody else who just left them as they ran. Hundreds of them, thousands. 6 blocks of them.
Something more on this. Now John Allen has stepped out and given his recent interviews this pic is being touted as the brothers with an as ‘as yet unidentified man’. Example here: http://wgbhnews.org/post/allston-gym-owner-talks-about-former-regulars-tsarnaevs-todashev
Why so? We were told this guy was traced immediately, interviewed by FEDS and declared a totally innocent party. It was the subject of some of my ‘training for jihad’ post. How were they training for jihad if the guy who was with them new nothing and had just come along for the ride and a couple of hours at the gym?
Back to the unidentified man part – he HAS been identified, yet now we’re told he hasn’t? Confused.
EDIT: Also, I enhanced this pic to bring out more detail of the face (wont bother posting unless anyone wants desperately to see it). What looks like a wrinkle/crease on the left side of his face (as we look at it) is not. It’s actually a dirty great scar. Looks like someone really didn’t like this dude – he’s been slashed across the face.
Well, they obviously didn’t “train for jihad”, they just went to a gym with someone they knew. He looks Chechen and I have a feeling I’ve seen him somewhere, but can’t remember where.
As to the “unidentified man” part – it’s my understanding that when someone is photographed with people accused of a crime and it’s determined he’s not involved, they hide the face and call them “unidentified” in order to protect them. If he’s not part of the investigation, there’s no need to identify him publicly. Obviously, FBI had identified him, they know who he is. But there’s no need for us to know.
Yes – I understand that to be the case also. However, when these still were first released this guy face was totally blurred out and he was referred to as ‘identified’ but nothing to do with the bombings. Now this has emerged showing his ACTUAL face and we’re back to ‘an unidentified man’ again. IDK
And yes he was described as a ‘Chechen male’ at the time – I thought I’d seen him too – in Chechnia! Not the same man unless he got that awful scar after the first pic was took.
Yes, I find it weird that they’re showing his face now. If he’s got nothing to do with the bombings there’s no reason to show his face. If he’s got something to do with the bombings then they should be able to identify him. Unless they lied when they said they identified him? Or they did identify him, but only later found out that he lied to them?
It is also a way how to engage the public – to make someone come forward with information regarding this individual. They show his face, say he’s unidentified – and right away you have people calling the FEDs – I know him, I saw him there and there,….
It was MSM speculation that they were training for jihad, nothing more. It wasn’t an established fact – just MSM propaganda machine using speculation that was suggested by the owner’s comment about the beard and then blown up by the media. Most people understand that.
Good work today – team I need some time to pull it together and add to my post. Its getting close to the 800 lb gorilla hour too – so I am taking my leave.
See Ya.
Nice one coach – and I won’t do anything rash. I’m cool with it.
S: Were you, BB, and Renny having a convo down thread about the Forum tree and damage it suffered relative to possible placement of the bag? Looking for another photo for a mystery I cannot fathom re: the Roberts video, I found this extremely clear image of the front and side view of the tree for your collection. All: it is a very, very graphic image immediately after the explosion at the Forum–be warned. Tree shows effects of… something.
Thanks M.
I agree. There’s a dark patch just above the right arm of the person on the ground next to Mr.Richard. It’s extremely difficult to ascertain what it is – many possibilities. I’ll go back to the other tree images for a closer look. BabyB’s the one for this job.
From the Forum side, you can’t see the bottom part of the tree though.
True, true. I’ll send you those tree pictures, R. It’s possible that what’s on this one is some quirk of the angle, light, etc. Too difficult to know for sure. But I do remember BabyB’s opinion that it would be the base of the tree that took the real hammering.
It also ocurred to me that if the real bomb pack was at the back of the tree, rather than in front or on side, it would be more difficult to spot it from the other side of the street. So, Mr. Genck could claim that he couldn’t discern anything else other than the backpack in that photo. He doesn’t say anything about what he could discern from his “chilling” surveillance video that noone except of him has ever seen.
Indeed indeed Renny. We’re all on the same side as Genck on this one. Nobody on earth could have discerned anything else that may have caused the explosion.
The only difference is the reason. Genck omitted to mention that, like the rest of humanity, he had no way of seeing what was further back, obscured, or behind other solid objects. Language and meaning: his conclusion was not based on having exhausted all possibilities – but that’s just a detail, eh ? The other interesting detail is that Genck never claimed to have seen Dzh.T dropping a backpack, only that he was ‘apparently’ doing so. That’s a get-out should it all fall apart.
The word “apparently” bothered me from the get-go. If he cannot say categorically that Dzh.T dropped his backpack and that it’s visible on the video, then he doesn’t have any evidence! It’s another thing that Mr. Genck cannot “discern” from what he sees. It looks like he was told that is what he saw on the video – but because he didn’t really see it, he put the word “apparently” to cover his a** in case someone in the future will actually have a look at the video and ask where exactly did he see it. I’m wondering if the defense was given the video, what could they see in it.
To be human is to err……but WHAT video ? Should it be lost or destroyed in an unfortunate bureaucratic oversight, there’s always the remote backup held by the companies that have the CCTV contracts. It’s all part of a good service.
I was reading in some of the court documents and the defence do seem to have seen a video of DT putting his bag on the ground.
I’ve read it as well. That’s why I’m saying I think there is a surveillance video that shows him putting his bag on the ground. But he doesn’t do it in front of Forum.
here is the Grassley letter:
http://www.myfoxboston.com/link/663584/chuck-grassley-letter
EDIT: now the FBI press release answers part of this – has there been a full on the record response that has been posted?
Here is the fox news article and below see the FBI pressor
I especially like the last line –
There has been recent reporting relating to whether or not the FBI, Boston Police, Massachusetts State Police or other members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force knew the identities of the bombers before the shootout with the alleged marathon bombing suspects, and were conducting physical surveillance of them on April 18, 2013.
So – hey dude! what about surveillance on the 17th, the 16th or the 15th? Hmmm?
‘Recent’ ? !!!
Did you notice the spa has closed?
EDIT: “recently” closed.
you recall the rumor of the spa girl who reported that Tamerlan had told her about being involved in a drill at the BM. She did not want to be named. Most just tossed this as unverifiable – well now isnt this interesting? A spa exists or existed not far from him.
He had a massage the day before the bombings.
Not 100% on this next bit because it was ages ago and was something I was even connecting to anything suspicious at the time but…folks on twitter had a pic and name I think. Shall I enquire?
its worth a snoop –
I do indeed recall that. Quite a lively social scene down there….
There was this from her social media account although I cant vouch for how true the assertion is. Must be some way to verify this surely?
Hmmm…..
But before I finally turn in, I realised I nearly laughed myself to death at my total lack of surprise that you had set foot in one of those ‘extreme fighting’ gyms. And it’s not even the Avatar….
I live across the road from one! Been in there loads but I daren’t tell you why!
I daren’t ask ! I just posted above – probably on the wider orbit of lunacy, but ya never know….
This is very left-field, but…those numbers/letters look like hex code, and probably are, but looking just at the numbers, we have an area code for Connecticut, and 6 further numbers of a 10-digit number. ‘asked where he lived, he said Boston, I was surprised i’m not in bostion’.
Worth a shot ? With only one number missing, there’s only 10 possibilities. It’s probably a blind alley, but ya never know…
I don’t own an ipad or any of those devices so i don’t know how it works. But, maybe all these things have an associated phone number…
I had no idea! I have been furiously typing in those things to search engines seeing if they come up with a tumbler or facebook account post etc! Predictably zilch! Now, what set of numbers are you talking about (I see two) and what the hell is a hex code?
hexcode is a computer-nerd thing, though I’ve come across it in digital electronics.
Hex may be nothing to do with it, but the numbers I have are 860 650 587….so there’d be one missing. 860 is for the north-eastern end of CT.
I have to crash: been up too long and am going cross-eyed. See ya tomorrah.
Don’t know, but questionable to me. :(
Hey – as I said above most just tossed this because no one could verify this.
But and its a beautiful BUT – there was a Russian Spa in that same neighborhood (that is now closed) literally around the corner from 38 Pratt (rumored residence) a couple of blocks from Wai Kru – and the carjacking spot – and something else Saunders spotted in the neighborhood but it slips my mind right now. The pounding fighters take always requires massage and chiropractic adjustments – Its not far fetched to think he would go there for a massage after heavy workouts – preferring a woman rather than a trainer to do that.
Since she hasnt or wont or cant come forward – not sure where to go – BUT it’s a piece of information you cant simply dismiss. We have a lot of those hanging around.
C: You know, I was once again struck by the angle of this camera atop Lord & Taylor–it is so perfectly positioned to catch someone in front of Forum, and we’ve read numerous accounts in the days immediately following the explosions of the L&T surveillance camera capturing the suspect with the white cap. (who so conveniently stood in place for several minutes before the explosion.) Even if you didn’t believe a training drill was a possibility, looking at this photo taken behind the L&T surveillance camera focused on Forum’s sidewalk, it’s hard not to believe the Urban Shield team selected this spot to get a good video for LE teams to use in the exercise–not too much detail in the faces it captured, either.. Explains standing around–if DT was even there–Saunders keeps coming up with data on those official photos.
Coach, I am almost a believer….
it only took 6 months to get this far – you mean I’m in for another 6 to persuade you all the way? oh lordy! LOL
‘fraid so–you know how skeptical I am…but I am getting closer–no longer think you are a crazy ol’ dino—HA, HA, HA—had to tease you on that one.
Maybe in 6 months I’ll be joining you all at the prison gates to welcome DT, lifting a phrase Mrs. P. once used… :)
I’m the same as you M. maybe it’s a female thing? took me six months to get this far too. Still sceptical!
Yep. They were ready. And they had the Tsarnaevs in their sights to take the fall.
Indeed indeed Missie.
You can’t blink round there for cameras. Lord & Taylor, there’s a BANK right opposite the Forum, T-junction with the RingRoad, so even more traffic cameras than usual. You can’t miss. It was scheduled for 3pm, Dzh.T waited outside Atlantic Fish, BOOM. He never got to do his part in the drill, and legged it like everybody else. FBI doesn’t know what the blazes has gone wrong, and because of the hijack, Dzh.T was not seen on surveillance as alleged. He was still waiting outside Atlantic Fish. FBI gets a tip from whoever’s behind this, and they’re then so in awe with gratitude that their collective a***s have been saved that they will now believe anything they’re told by their self-appointed guardian angel. No questions asked, no stopping to think. Abracadabra, the ‘guardian angel’ now controls and steers the ‘investigation’ from then on and the FEDs don’t even know it. The flanker’s already been worked and now there’s no going back. They’ve unknowingly abdicated responsibility. But they really do think they’re chasing terrorists. It’s their only hope, so they’re only too ready to remain deluded. No damning surveillance, so something has to be conjured up. Hence the murky history and questionable nature of the images they released, and the insistence that the Tsarnaevs were the only suspects.
As that’s the only ACCEPTABLE scenario in terms of ‘maintaining public confidence in LE’ (ahem !), damage control, et cetera, they try to insist that this is the only POSSIBLE scenario, trying to equate the two in the minds of the public. It serves a much bigger agenda on the lines of ‘whatever gets imposed, you can trust LE’. The locals were duped.
But that’s just a hypothesis.
In the later aftermath, who exactly has replaced all those officials who were stood down ? What are their allegiances ?
That’s what I think as well. The FEDs believed they had their men who hijacked the drill.
Now, what I don’t understand is the sequence of events from Wednesday on. Wednesday evening the FEDs call Tamerlan and tell him that he’s the suspect and he should come to their offices for a chat. He says “that’s your problem, I’m not coming.” Then, instead of going straight away to his house before he flees, they let him be. He drives his bro back to college, DT goes to the gym and a party.
Next morning, DT goes to school and after school he drives his friend home and then goes to Tamerlan’s apartment.
And the FEDs are still in no hurry to do anything. At 5pm they show the pics of the bros on TV, saying they have no clue who these people are.
So, it’s not just the FEDs who are in no hurry to catch their “suspects”. The “suspects” are in no hurry to run. We don’t know what the bros were doing or where they went, until DT withdraws the money from the ATM and is caught on camera.
The only explanation is as you posted down the thread: Watertown was a continuation of the drill, the FEDs wanted the bros to believe that everything was going fine and the bros believed this was still part of the drill, even seeing their pics on TV was OK for them. But they were duped.
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2013/04/29/washington-civil-society-cia-financing-chechen-other-regional-terrorists.html
This is long – but the last 1/3 of it is priceless.
What was the name of the Urban Shield fake terrorist cell?
I’ve heard this website is connected to the Russian intelligence sources.
The name was “Free America Citizens” – a homegrown terrorist group…
I wasnt concerned about the web site as much as I was about what Madsen was saying did you read that last 1/3 – Crikey!
Both freagin uncles are spooks – what does that make Anzor for reals?
What I meant was that the website has got the information from the Russian intelligence services – it’s not just someone making stuff up. And yeah I believe I read it somewhere before. Sibel Edmonds is the best for this kind of info about all the so called NGOs operating in Chechnya. There’s a reason why Putin banned USAID in Russia. He knows very well what they’re doing there.
Regarding Anzor, I remember an interview – kind of – where he stated that he was trying to contact both his brothers right after DT was caught, but neither of his brothers was answering the phone. To me it looks like he’s the black sheep of the family, the loser, and his own brothers threw him and his family under the bus. Because they didn’t want to be part of the spook network ????
Quite possible. According to the uncle Alvi, TT’s last phone call to him was to apologise for his part in the well-publicised family rift. And to be fair, Alvi said from the outset that he believed that the brothers had not done it, and that it was ludicrous to suggest that they had. Quite the opposite from his Maryland brother. He said that he hadn’t spoken to Anzor for a few years, they’d disagreed over something, et cetera, but that after Boston, everything’s changed.
Meantime, Anzor was freezing to his bones fixing cars and having to accept a favour from whoever’s yard he was working in, and having to apply for and accept public assistance. If he was ever offered ‘something better’, he’d have had a very good reason for turning it down. Maybe he just couldn’t be bought, which was then framed as stupidity, ingratitude, and pig-headed determination to remain a ‘loser’, in terms of money, possessions, lack of ambition, social status, et cetera. To be a ‘loser’ requires that there’s a winner – defined within the framework of a set of values and priorities.
Yep, that’s what I meant. Anzor would rather work hard and not get involved in the “Chechen business” his brothers were involved in. Maybe the way he was treated in Kyrgyzstan taught him a lesson? Uncle Ruslan stated that he was the one who helped the whole family – his brothers and sister – to get to the US. And he probably expected something from them in exchange? And Anzor wasn’t willing to do that and didn’t want his children to be part of it? So, when Tamerlan refused to go to Kazakhstan in 2008, as his uncle wished, Ruslan just decided “to the hell with you” and broke all the contact with the family. And that’s when FBI started following Tamerlan, according to Momma T. He kept refusing them until last year when he was left without a passport and in trouble with the Russian intelligence. He didn’t have a choice.
Like I said Renny – I knew we were on the same wavelength… ;)
I did read it……what are Madsen’s (apparent) alliegences ?
Hey Renny – have you been able to find out any more about Todashev and his wife in Georgia?
As I said downthread, the evidence she claims to have are joint account statements that prove he was with her in Georgia.
In earlier interviews she was stating this:
“She said Mr. Todashev spent the summer of 2011 in Boston because of a
transportation job he landed there. She says she believes her husband
returned to Florida before September 2011—when the triple murder took
place—but she’s not sure about the exact dates.”
http://deepsixcover.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/reni-manukyan-wife-of-chechen-man-killed-in-fbi-probe-speaks-out/
It’s obviously possible that she found the bank statements later on when she was trying to get some kind of evidence about the exact date when he had come back to Atlanta. They moved to Florida in October 2011.
Thanks Renny – this from the Wayne Madsen article:
Another U.S.-based group that has championed the Chechen movement, regardless of the presence of terrorist entities, is the American Committee for Peace in the Caucasus (ACPC), formerly known as the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya. The ACPC was founded in 1999 by Freedom House, a Cold War right-wing group that has been financed by the National Endowment for Democracy and USAID-funded groups. The ACPC has defended the political asylum in the U.S. of former Chechen Foreign Minister Ilyas Akhmadov, accused of past terrorist links. The ACPC and Freedom House work with the Jamestown Foundation, founded in 1984 by CIA director William Casey, along with high-ranking intelligence defectors from the Soviet Union, Romania, Poland, and Czechoslovakia.
The co-winky dinks just keep piling up folks.
Always does it. How do you do that? I want to learn?!?!? Recent…….
Never spotted it.
You’re already doing it. you attacked ‘APPARENTLY slipping off the backpack and placing it on the ground’.
It can’t be taught – it’s a useful component of lunacy….and long experience in dealing with deviant bureaucracy. ‘Unfortunate bureaucratic oversight…from which lessons have been learned’. In precisely what way ‘unfortunate’ ? What caused the bad luck ? Who was it that got unlucky ? and why ? What lessons have been learned, and by whom ?
‘The US intelligence service IS not spying on Merkel, and WILL NOT be spying on Merkel’. As I recall, the question was has it been going on already. Deliberate answering of a different question: evasion dressed as honesty and clarity.
‘Recent’…HOW recent ?
It’s like those walk-in clinics that have sprung up here over the last few years. They’re ‘nurse-led’. Ask ’em if there’s any doctors, and they keep saying that it’s nurse-led. ‘Nuff said.
You should do another article on this sort of nonsense. Right when you did your piece on coercion and control, there was a radio interview here: extraordinary rendition, solitary confinement et c. The euphemisms would have us all flocking to be there for our holidays. People are not isolated and cornered, they are enabled to focus on how they are going to deal with Us.
That’s the same cowardice and hypocrisy that infests the language surrounding the death penalty. ‘It’s quick, it’s clean, it’s safe….and therefore humane.’
You’re already doing it, BabyB.
Yes – I referenced it on the blog in my last post C.
Didn’t the FBI omit to reply directly to (Senator ?) Keating’s enquiries, preferring instead to place a ‘response’ in one of the New York dailies ?
Last man standing.
Checked my email – nothing in the inbox S.
WHA ? I’ll resend this second.
Sent. The first one looks to be delayed by about 45min and counting.
It was – and most have been like that in the last 24 hours. Never happened before. if I didn’t know better….you know where I’m going with this…
see my email of 10 seconds ago!!!
Going now.
In US “black and white” value system, anyone who questions the official narrative is: a terrorist sympathizer..
Not he best way to make friends with the authorities.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/mozillas-lightbeam-tool-will-expose-who-is-looking-over-your-shoulder-on-the-web-8902269.html
For the NSA interested crowd.
..and hot on the tails of that… For the FBI Informant interested crowd…
“”FBI Pressures Muslims on No-Fly List to Become Informants in Exchange for Travel Rights”””
“”Muhammad Tanvir from the Bronx refused to spy on his Pakistani community, so he remains on the no-fly list, preventing him from seeing his ailing mother.””
http://www.alternet.org/fbi-pressures-muslims-no-fly-list
excuse me – If I may speculate: Mr. Tsarnaev? How would you like to box in the golden gloves and possibly represent the US in the next Olympics? We have waaaaays of fixing these things you know?
…and should you be reluctant, ways of making you an offer you can’t resist….
a beautiful baby girl ought to turn that reluctance right around.
Exactly. Monstrous.
Coach, do you recall exactly where the WAI-KRU is located, and what sort of neighbourhood it is ? 38
WAI KRU
Mailing
Address:
236 Brighton Avenue
Allston, Massachusetts 02134
Telephone:
(617) 254.2222
Email:
info@waikru.com
Looks to be suburban – business district – no hi-rises – well kept streets – upper working class
Head offline, connect via BabyB….
Allston is a neighborhood of boston and fairly urban (not in a downtown sense, but there aren’t lots of single families with yards like in the suburbs). Lots of students.
Thanks.
alford plea can be used pre-conviction
source for early version of danny’s tale:
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lz517a8258.png
sorry, looks like 2 guests online…i think i’m in red letters.
gym is on brighton ave. which just happens to be one of the places danny claims the carjacking took place. i’ll source it.
Guest, you could always become ‘real’ you know. We don’t bite! Well, my avatar might but that’s a different story…
i did some time back, but i have some serious problems with discus and i’ve given up messing with it. but thank you & your avatar!
I read back on your disqus. When you break into the Dominating Discourse at a site they want to kill you and getting rid of you is the best way. This thing is so convoluted I don’t think any one person knows the whole story. We have reality and simulated fused just as in the Herzog produced film The Act of Killing. I see no difference really. Tabloids right now have JFK stuff on the covers today. His autopsy. Just read the Doctor in emergency at Parkview (?) in Dallas who wrote a book about it. The official narrative of JFK’s body was not the body he had seen in Dallas. And they told him to shut the fug up. He did until he was old but by then no one cared. If you read the Warren Report all the way through you get to really see how dumb Congress is by the questions they asked. Hardly an intelligent one in the book.
‘Yes please’. Plays ball for a while – no Golden Gloves or Olympics on the horizon. Tells them to get notted and refuses to speak to them anymore. And then the fun begins……
Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman: exposed the NYC operations of spying on Muslims, and trying to get Muslims to spy on other Muslims. Mosques, local businesses, et c. Plenty of money thrown at it, not a single terrorist lead.
Good Morning all:
Woke up this morning and something is niggling at me again –
in the last week we have –
1) Senator Grassley – asking some good questions of the FBI and reporting that there was some kind of surveillance going on at MIT just a block or so away from the 711 and a blocks away from Stata. His digging elicited this responce:
Law enforcement officials want to make it “absolutely clear” that they were not conducting any sort of surveillance on the alleged Boston Marathon bombers after the April 15 attack.
“There has been recent reporting relating to whether or not the FBI, Boston Police, Massachusetts State Police or other members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force knew the identities of the bombers before the shootout with the alleged marathon bombing suspects, and were conducting physical surveillance of them on April 18,” officials said in a joint press release on Friday. “These claims have been repeatedly refuted by the FBI, Boston Police, and Massachusetts State Police.”
2) Brandon Mess’s girlfriend is reported as saying:
The woman said Tsarnaev, who was born and lived his early years in former Soviet republics, had told Mess in the weeks before the killings that the FBI had placed him on a terrorist watch list.
“Brendan said, ‘The FBI is watching him; they think he’s a terrorist,’ ’’ the woman recalled. “We laughed about it. We never took it seriously.’’
Federal authorities have said that the FBI interviewed Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of the Russian government. (may 25 orlando sentinal)
(So we know that is actually the second confirmation the FBI lied about previous knowledge and surveillance of Tamerlan – Momma T being the first)
3) When Tameraln went to Russia he met up a Canadian Boxer- a friend from back here – who was fighting in the Chechen cause – and just days before Tamerlan to come home – this Canadian friend was killed (someone help me out here – fill in the blank. )
So -we have three friends – Canadian dude, Brendan Mess, and Todashev – all fighters, all practicing Islamic and we know at least two of the three knew about Tamerlans “association” with the FBI – ALL THREE DEAD…..
What do you think the odds are that Todashev – whose father was some big wig back in Russian also knew.
Now all Four are dead – You dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to at least wonder – What did Tamerlan know that got them all so damn dead in a few short years….?
And then you have the FBI wetting themselves over what they knew and when they knew it regarding Tamerlan at every turn in the road. Why?
Someone else said here down thread that you dont disclose your associations with the FBI – or else…is that what he have going here. Was he such a blabber mouth he got the friends of his he told – killed. And then he himself was determined to be a liability and spent too?
BB – are you going to follow up that information, photographs Todashevs wife supposedly has that proves he was in Georgia when the Waltham murders went down?
I found her VKontakte profile – sort of Russian Facebook. I’ll see what I can get.
the commenter I quoted from Firedoglake said it was the CAIR guy who claimed to have the pictures – I suppose he got them from her too – but just saying – fyi
Yep, I know, but the CAIR guy wouldn’t publish it, would he? I’m just going through her profile, maybe I’ll find something about any photos…you think she would keep them secret, if she had them? If I was her I would post them everywhere…she’s back in Russia, the FBI won’t go there after her…
Just an FYI..She does have a mother who lives here in the US….She is disabled Army and they have ripped her benefits away from her…putting the heat on…So I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting access to those pictures..Hate to burst your bubbles as you all do a great job!!!! .This is Reni’s Sister’s Tumblr…http://yana-whoknwz.tumblr.com/post/56429143269/fbi-is-trying-to-ruin-our-family maybe you can touch base with her?
I was just going to post that link :)
Thank you.
Anyway here are their thoughts on why Ibragim was killed:
“The FBI apparently wanted Ibragim Todashev to sign a false witness statement implicating the Tsarnaev patsies. Todashev refused, presumably because he (like everyone else who knew the brothers) was convinced of their innocence. So the FBI murdered
Todashev, execution-style, as a message to others involved in the case:
“Cooperate with our frame-up of the Tsarnaevs, or else…”
So, it’s possibly bank records that she’s got:
“Sources have said the two men were also involved in an unsolved triple homicide two years ago in Waltham, Massachusetts, but Manukyan said joint bank statements prove Todashev was with her in Atlanta at the time of the 2011 slayings.”
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/council-of-american-islamic-relations-calls-for-probe-into-fbi-shooting/-/1637132/20347442/-/krp0u6z/-/index.html
I am beginning to think this is – or is close to the nub of it all. These three guys lives intersect with Tamerlan and at various stages afterwards end up dead…DzhT obviously knows something, but maybe not as much and thats why they are keeping him from knowing anymore?
William Plotnikov http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57582145/tamerlan-tsarnaev-canadian-militant-followed-similar-paths/
Do you remember if John Allan of Wai-Kru said he knew Plotnikov in his NPR interview? (I don’t believe he did.)
he did not mention him.
EDIT: BUT – I dont know if he was asked either?
It would be interesting to know how TT knew him ? If TT was gym rat like it sounds – when he was fighting – then it had to be through Allen and his gym??? Might be worth following up?
everything reported on the connection was that they knew each other through social media – being Chechen and boxers and that TT may or may not have met him in person in Toronto while visiting his aunt. I don’t think there has been any suggestion that Plotnikov had been in Boston.
Hmm, but couldn’t they have met at boxing matches? Sounds like TT was very active until he dropped out in 2009, either because of changes in the rules, or because of a back injury or both.
Certianly, but not likely through Allan’s gym.
ya just rang another bell in my head – Allan said he was close to TT – Trainer/Fighter relationship – long hours on the road – hotel rooms – “us against them” mentality is a strong bond between athletes….
who is John Allan? In a way, if Plotnikof was in that gym too – then Allan is another interesection point?
Dont know why – all this just woke up in my head this morning – I cant write fast enough.
You are one scary dude! LOL! Keep the insights rolling–you always are amazing pulling together the big picture stuff.
John Allan lives in Thailand most of the time I think. Have you ever been to an ultimate fighting gym? I have and they are hot beds for all sorts. What’s said in the gym stays in the gym so to speak. Allan has purposely distanced himself from the tsarnaev’s – who wouldn’t if you are trying to run a successful business – but it’s way deeper than that. He seems personally pissed at them for something. I don’t see that being related to just the possible tarnishing of the name ‘wai kru’. If anything, the notoriety should of worked in his favour.
So, Ruslan and Allan mad at Tamerlan? Both mentors at one time or another. Mr. T rubs a lot of people the wrong way – not a good characteristic for a spook?
DT on the other hand – everyone loves the socialable guy with dry humor, moppy hair and cooler than ice demeanor – perfect spook stuff.
I have no idea. I cant hypothesize the way you do. I wish I could. When it comes to ‘spooks’ I’m lost. On a different note – well done and congrats on the excellent response to your post! just read through the comments and you really got the conversation going there didn’t you?!? Just what was needed – people to question more. Thanks Coach.
BabyB, I sense a chance for action. Check you email.
you both are freaking me–are you suggesting a spooky network through these martial arts gyms, and all that falls from it with the players we know? Todashev–Allan portrayed him as don’t look at the guy cross-eyed or he’d lose it–no control at all. just the sort you don’t want to anger in a parking lot–where he was the one who got beat-up (course he was recovering from knee surgery) r u suggesting he was the muscle–money he had, or did that money come from papa?
The reason I don’t think TT and DT were in any network yet was because they were pretty poverty-stricken–they may have been resisting joining up, knew too much, and therefore were a liability, but they appeared to be scrabbling for dollars. Maybe that’s why TT went to Russia–recruitment–got scared when Plotnikov was killed and tried to wash his hands of his Agency friends. IDK–all wild speculation, we’ve covered some of this already.
EDIT: and in the end, this reads like a mafia novel–but is the FBI anything else but an enforcement team–wearing the white hats, not the black ones.
More on the Russian trip by TT and Plotnikov, I hadn’t seen this one when it was published back in May. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/world/europe/boston-bombing-inquiry-looks-closely-at-russia-trip.html?_r=0
And several thousand posts earlier, I commented on the Chechen’s–our few Islamic friends–families with children of appropriate ages being recruited post-9/11 when Govt was pushing our agencies to find more friends, build our networks, get more early warning systems in place on terror attacks–I believe the 200+ Chechen families in the US were brought here for the specific purpose of recruiting their sons (& daughters) to go out into the terror networks and spy for us. Bringing them to the US for the purpose of exposing the teens to American culture so the young adults could be harvested and would be so ‘americanized’ they wouldn’t question why they needed to support the US objectives against their former homelands. Farfetched? Maybe not.
you are now getting out in the hinterlands…whew!
No idea if it’s true, but no, not farfetched, especially if a family already has relatives who have already established themselves in the US…..
nope
Not farfetched at all. They speak the language, they know the culture, for the purpose of recruitment or spying they’re perfect.
I’m not ready to go all in on a “spooky network.” But remember the first reports – were LE was on the hunt for a CELL of 12…..
i’m so glad you brought it up! i’ve been holding back bc i know you guys think i’m a little kookaberra…
why is nobody looking at allan?? how many boys from his gym are dead? he’s been changing his story…alot. he’s been a regular deliverer of the official narrative.
what got me wondering was an article i read (i will source this if you want) the subject of interview was a boxing club owner who also did something for the olympics. as such, he was always kinda scouting for talent. he was interested in tt, he claims, but the person who really poo poo’d it was allan. told him to forget him; he would not get his citi-ship.
if you owned a gym, and your best boxer (i’ve seen him box. he was by far the best boxer in the tournament. he would have made the olympic team, imo) is representing your gym in a run for the olympics, wouldn’t you promote, promote, promote him? this guy was supposed to be his coach & mentor. but i’ve doubted for some time that;s been his only role.
Hey we are all a little cookoo for being this deep in the doodoo of this case. Source away all you want. I am seriously believing things are taking a big, wide, slow turn right now and we are going to see things fall together a little quicker. Its impossible for the architects of this operation to hold it all together.
http://kdhnews.com/news/trainer-recalls-boxing-potential-of-boston-bombing-suspect/article_d5d3a09c-ae22-11e2-8b59-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm
if the whole damn article comes up when i post. i’m sorry.
That rings a bell.
POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now!! A coincidence? Are you kidding me? All 4 friends who knew? I’m loving this and for one very specific reason-this is what they’re scared of C. They don’t want people to make these connections. Who is writing this up? I volunteer! Although it may take a few days to gather all the correct sources etc.
here is the clincher: They were looking for Todashev within days of Tamerlans death – I think they got to Florida within a week. They were not investigating the BMB or the Waltham murders – they wanted to know what he knew?
Hmm, didn’t Allan hint he gave lists of friends and fighters who knew Tamerlan–he wasn’t very subtle about it. The Todashev lead came from him, I expect.
He was out of the country on a fight with another fighter – Thailand I think – when the BMB went down – He said he didnt get back until well after the 19th – by that time the FBI was already on to Todashev. They tracked him to another house – and the women who lived there had said they wanted to know where is mail was from.
EDIT: but to answer your question – yes he provided the sign in logs – waivers.
There were also reports that they had spoken after Todashev’s knee surgery (and maybe after the bombings?) so they may have gotten to Todashev from phone records.
I believe the first reports (or interviews with Todashev’s roommate) said that the FBI got to Todashev because he and TT skyped about a month before the bombings.
If I remember correctly…..
Plotnikoff was either ‘persuaded’ to give LE the identities of his friends/contacts/associates/fellow-martial arts nuts in Russia. Either that or the info was got from his correspondence.
go ahead and write it up – I am involved in a few other things today and this weekend – I will only be checking in sparingly….
btw – the response to the HOLES articles has been great – lots of questions lots of comments – on the blog.
Will check them out! Any new points that you may of missed? I said it was very conclusive – you had everything in there apart from the kitchen sink! Well done!
EDIT – save taking up another post. I will write this article. I cant wait to get stuck back into something. I’ve sooooo missed it. Project for the weekend. Will keep checking back in though – I’m all excited but I don’t know why. Must be going mad.
Yes, this is going to be a difficult post to sort out–you have a steady hand Difficulty is in knowing where to start–there’s so much background to cover. It may end up being two posts?
Yes, will do so now M.
william plotnikov.
it struck me as odd that the fbi, who hitherto has been mute, silent, & unresponsive to questions, concerns, etc. (they didn’t even bother to show up to a congressional hearing/govt query!) is suddenly explaining themselves – in a very official press release.
this seems like a 180 to me & i can’t help but wonder why.
thoughts?
Well – the Grassley interogation both in public and by letter to the FBI – are frankly the first hints of inside knowledge leaking out of the cover up package. Who else would have known about the supposed “MIT” surveillance that night? And – this strong of a response would not have been produced had Grassley and his staff not had details, documentation and backup. In other words a standard flat denial wasnt going to get by Grassley.
The prime directive from day one has been to “protect” the narrative. The Grassley information is not a direct attack on the narrative, but enough of one that it can get the nose of the camel under the tent. And I would not be surprised if it already has or at least has awakened some in the Fourth Estate to get their butts in gear.
Lastly – this is only a hint of insider knowledge – where there is a hint – there may be more. Lets cross our fingers.
Let’s do more than that……
Agent Ghenk said he personally viewed him…..who told Ghenk? Action Saunders – I know exactly where you’re headed with this.
EH ? Get over to your email, read the short one – the other can keep. Urgent (possibly)
Will do now!
Coach – I just read the piece here on the Grassley letter. he’s asking about the origin of the ‘images’, and who determined from them that the brothers were the suspects. I sense a chance….what do you think ? If the FEDs won’t tell him…..
exactly what I said below – the Grassley inquiry has all the earmarks of insider information – yes, I think someone is leaking.
Sorry there coach, I haven’t read your full post yet – too much going on at this end. But I will do. In the meantime, get onto BabyB offline.
gotcha now – can you post the Grassley interview or letter.
Didn’t Collier train at Wai Kru as well?
yes he did – I know the web is thick thick thick.
Many moons ago, yes…….did community voluntary work there, so is said.
got
In re: Saunders comment re: M. Schulter on Firedoglake, I just read her post on Federal Death Penalty cases across three administrations. Here’s the link: http://my.firedoglake.com/mschulter/2011/04/18/catfood-and-circuses-a-federal-death-penalty-extravaganza/
She writes there on the senseless futility of the Fed’s seeking a death penalty conviction for a convicted murderer serving a life sentence. (It was a Holder recommendation.) And in said instance, it does appear to be a gesture, upholding the (federal criminal) law of the land. But yet, if this criminal is not prosecuted, then what sort of precedent does it set, and what are the long-term implications for other attorneys wishing to argue on the merits of venue-shopping for a client, a subject also debated at the beginning of the Tsarnaev case? Individual circumstances cannot be disruptive to the justice system, which is built and maintained on predictive outcomes–making new law is not the norm, which is why I expect Holder to green light the DP for DT. I’ve also commented elsewhere on WWW about a life sentence in a Supermax facility may be worse than the alternative. Where there is life, there is hope, but ADX isn’t any form of life if 23×7 isolation is the routine for decades. I’ve also read (somewhere) the percentage of mentally challenged individuals in the most restrictive prison environments for the worst sorts of crimes is higher than the occurrence in the general population–another strike against this sort of punishment.
Like a ‘living’ death. Yet the instinct to survive is so strong – many will go for it. I suspect if Holder removes threat of DP then a trial is almost inevitable. Therefore he will go with DP. they don’t want ANY of this out in the open. DP garuantees a plea. and with that comes silence. Perfect.
I read last night in FDL – I think it was Shulter in the comments section of one article was saying that the UK has a law against the piling on of loads charges, real, indirect, or altogether vague – for the purposes of giving a defendant a real choice to plea or go to trial. In her example – charging DT with Donohue’s near death injury was a reach, but with some precedent….The idea is – DT is stairing at 17 DP worthy charges out of the 30 he faces. Only one has to stick to throw him down the river. What incentive is there to go to trial facing those odds?
No plea deals in the UK Coach. They don’t happen. It’s either trial or plead guilty. No bargaining allowed.
BB, did not know this, thanks for the clarification! I’ve been doing a little exploring of the Firedoglake site, and it seems to be populated by some appealing characters. Since the WhoWhatWhere moderators won’t take any action for us against the obvious moronic, disruptive trolls who infest our threads, I’m thinking about moving over there if I can block the dips**ts from making ceaselessly dumba** comments that readers looking for information give up on scrolling though–it’s mentally exhausting to keep reading the same bullcr** every other flipping comment.
I’m really on the verge of moving away completely from WhoWhatWhy as even the most basic form of moderation appears to be nonexistent here.
I put discuss over on our site that I built! We could move there? Basic moderation would of course apply.
I want to get away from disqus if I go to Firedoglake–its commenting apparatus appears from this site to give free rein to the psychotics, morons, dogmatic one-noters to endlessly voice disruptive sh** slyly designed to derail us. (As opposed to Intelligent queries such as Mrs. Peel’s below, which are more than welcome in my opinion.)
True – but the point is you can moderate yourself over there. If anyone comes in with an obvious agenda you have the power to say ‘non’. Genuine commenters and intelligent discussion are always extremely valuable, such as Em as you rightly point out. Or/and we can stick a message board in – Em has actually suggested this herself as a way of offering structured discussion away from the comments section.
You are trying to be her teacher. Take over and tell her you are taking over or exiting. Download all your stuff and do your own blog. Do not use missy’s design. It is anti productive for what you want and what you want to be to others. I have followed FDL for almost 20 years now. And it has grown, slowly and surely. All the really smart and committed people in this political Event are over there and many are at Politico. That’s where you can exchange with your peers. Grow instead of explaining over and over.
Actually youtube is the most exciting political force going on this but their comment section is scattered and limited among many different posters.
That’s why disqus has blacklist. Just think you can blacklist me. Won’t THAT make you happy. However I do know how to get around that by pasting. But that’s because I have my OWN blogs. I took care to post all my forum posts on my own sites as I was expecting this. Just your question reflects how much a newbie you are trying to run an important site which is important because of BB and Saunders. My shopper and gamer bf thinks coach is a rank amateur with his shopping.
dont let the door hit you on the way out
no one will miss you – please stop threatening and just go – do yourself a favor
See this is the way you handle trolls and this is why you can’t win with them. A pity. I should ask friends to come here but they would get mad at me instead for wasting their time with the likes of you.
can you post to the all things forum blog too? please – pretty please –
Post what C? In the comments section? I can only access it every now and again. Sometimes I’m allowed in and sometimes the computer says ‘no’!
It’s a fuggin mess. That’s an admin problem. If missy can’t do it find someone who can.
this is a democracy dumbo – you are the only one we want to get rid of
EDIT – we can all go in there and post and do whatever – just not you. Cluelesssssss
So do what I tell you to do and you can blacklist me. What could be better. I get what I want and so do you. I want to see DT live and you want to get rid of me. Win/win DOPE.
Just put it on disqus. That way people have to be registered with disqus. That gives each one a history on disqus. So if you have a question about that person check their history. If it is scimpy, then they are probably a troll. go to the admin panel settings and on the right is whitelist/blacklist. So you can easily whitelist regular commenters and blacklist trouble makers, and you have the option of doing it retroactively if you want so you can take out everything they ever said on your blog. They know this and trolls don’t like it on their history. These things are there to help you with this problem but you all go on and complain and complain and refuse to listen when I tell you what to do because coach hates me, and missy is threatened by me. Sorry. I am not going to change my style. This is why I have my own blogs because I have been to boot camp on this crap. The only reason I persist her is that DT’s LIFE is at stake and you have a chance to help while you fret like middle school children over trolls!
no – we are tired of sour puss
Just think you can blacklist me. Isn’t that enough to do what I am telling you to do.
did you see they deleted my earlier comment? Maybe somebody is listening?
Maybe now is the time to send a help letter to Uncle Russ?
Next on my list.
Do ask Big Daddy to interfere. Do you really think Russ wants all of you here. You need a blog list on forum with a link to www.
Which comment ?
Maybe you will enable comments and disqus on your own blog site. That would be earth shattering.
not for your goofy arce
Just this alone shows you that you are surrounded by people you have to keep educating. It splits you.
can you believe the sh*& this daft bat is spewing?
Plea deals has made many innocent persons plead guilty rather than face charges with a severe outcome.
Indictments are usually very harsh in order to push alledged criminals away from trial and trials support this system by giving alledged criminal harsher sentences if they dare a not guilty plea. Whatsmore, trials are much more expensive than plea bargains, so it is an all win situation.
It is no joke to claim that there is many innocent people in jail, it is a reality… So many lives down the drain. That is not called justice, just a parody. But no one cares, except the numerous unlucky ones who have experience “justice” this way.
Good point, BB. Your comment reminded me of Martin Weinberg’s statement about Ortiz fighting the discovery process–it was a surprise to him if she had really good evidence, why hide it. It all ties together, doesn’t it, if they have no really good evidence, best to keep discovery on chokehold and wait for the plea deal after Holder recommends DP. (hope I am wrong.)
Makes perfect sense to me. They don’t want that info out and objected to the defense request to lengthen the period of time it had to prepare DP submissions citing ‘Holder was duty bound to make his decision by 10/31/2013’.
All they have to do is hold out until then – another week and that info will be buried for all eternity. Wont stop us trying to unearth it though will it?
Never. We keep going. We must.
The prosecution/defense courtroom production is a SPECTACLE to keep people believing it is real when it is not. It is just a game to deceive us with its ideology. There is no justice there.
So this needs to be the focus of what you are doing instead of minutiae details. C’mon BB you can do it. You just have to make the jump out of the Discourse the people surrounding you have you imprisoned in. They cannot. I see that. But you can. This is Russ Baker’s failing. He is stuck in it because he believes it. This is why you have given him 7000+ hits that he couldn’t get on his own. Follow emptywheel and Jane Hamsher for the transition.
On the other hand, Dzh.T may consider that, either way with a plea-bargain, he’s knackered. DP seems to take a long time (years ) and many legal procedures, appeals, et c before it’s finally decided. I don’t know much about law, but I imagine that (and I think I read as much) that having taken a plea-bargain, your right of any appeal is gone, even in the face of new evidence or the exposure of abuse of process. Even if he loses an initial ‘not guilty’ plea, there’s still a chance of getting out of jail alive rather than dead.
There’s something called an ‘Alford’ plea, but I don’t know much about it…something to do with the West Texas Three, ironically enough.
Those wrongly convicted of the Guildford and Brimingham pub bombings here rejected parole more than once, because it would have meant admitting guilt, and they weren’t guilty. They held out for nearly 20 years before being exonerated.
I just cannot imagine a 20-year old having that much inner strength to hold out for 20 years…
Well… the first person to be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act over here was Paul Hill. I think he was 18 or 19 at the time: definitely still in his teens. He was wrongly convicted of Guildford. He held out vociferously and unrelentingly – rooftop protests included. Sheets marked in massive lettering ‘innocent’ et cetera. This always got onto the main television news, you could see the message. They all held out, and were young when arrested. Carole Richardson was 17, I think.
Wow, I guess some people are stronger than others. I definitely cannot imagine myself in such situation in such a young age.
I think it’s probably way beyond imagination. That’s part of the isolation of it.
did u know jt studied the west memphis 3 in school? he wrote a little opinion on the case which has proven to be eerily prophetic. familiar?
i think the alford plea might be for post-conviction but i’ll check.
Yes, I did – hence the irony, almost a prophecy. Basically that the town needed scapegoats, rushed to judgement, but hopefully it wouldn’t happen again: but if it did, he hoped that people would not stand silent….
Thanks for checking on Alford.
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lz517a8258.png
Discipline and Punish – Foucault. The genealogy of crime and punishment is in his book. Genealogy is not chronology and different genealogies can co-exist at any given time. What we are seeing now is the genealogy of crime and punishment as it existed under sovereign rule. Foremost the crime did not consider the victim. The crime was a crime against the sovereign. If you stole someone’s wallet, it was not a crime against the person, it was a crime against the sovereign and so the punishment had to commensurate with the fact that it was against the SOVEREIGN! This is how the Boston bombing is being perceived by the government. IT IS A CRIME AGAINST THE SOVEREIGN STATE! It was not a crime against the victims. It was a crime against the powers that are in power. The public perception confuses crimes that involve masses of people, BECAUSE they have not yet learned to think genealogically. As more people do, the Discourse changes until it is turned inside out. IF you listen to Russell Brand on Susie Madrack: http://susiemadrak.com/2013/10/24/interview-with-russell-brand/ Brand is a master at not falling into the Dominating Discourse trap. He knows it and understands it, identifies it and sails over it.
At least if I remember to post them…
That is exactly the reason why I wanted your email :)
This is what I wanted to talk about before posting it here…
There are your railings…
I knew we were on the same wavelength. There’s plenty more where that came from, eh ?
Now to sort out that email once & for all…
There is, for sure.
Quick get this and I’ll take it straight down.
done
Right, we’re in business. I think we’ll be a good duo on the images. They’re going DOWN. Send me some thoughts……..
Right you pair! I have a suggestion. Renny go to this site and fill in a contact form. It will come to my email address and then I can pass you over to Saunders privately. Then you can both get cracking – this could be a good one…..
thebostonmarathonbombings.weebly.com
We’re sorted, BabyB, but there’s no harm in having a backup. Did you meet the contour twins yet ?
I did! And I replied to your email with a suggestion!
Check your email, please.
Thanks Baby B. We’re sorted.
Ok, Baby B, I filled in the contact form. Just in case.
Yes Renny! I received it and replied to you. If anything messes up in future I have it now. Thank you.
Thank you, I’ve received your reply. That should get us going :)
If you post keep your own downloaded. And keep your own copyright. You have no way of knowing if your stuff has been copyrighted by the admin. And you will want to post it on other sites to promote what you are saying.
S: where are you planning to post? Did you respond to either my or BB’s latest round of email invites for you to be able to post on the blog?
BTW,–whoa! Your triptych is shocking!!!! You must emerge from the tunnels more often. :)
Thanks M. I can’t find the invites anywhere.
The triptych is nothing: me and Renny are teaming up. The beauty of the geometry approach is that anyone can do it at home and get the same results: no arguments about photoshop. There’s more than one way to crack this crock.
No. At least I don’t think so…I can’t remember if that’s an email for something else, like blogger. I’ll do it via BabyB so as to keep my email off the thread.
Mind, that might be the matter solved !
It’s not what I’ve got.
It’s all sorted Renny.
Baby B has got my email now. Did she send it to you?
All done Renny! thank you very much.
Sorted. Just been reading your message.
That would be good. Because she sent via the Forum the invite to the email address you gave her. Check spam? Wouldn’t be from her direct email, that may be why you didn’t recognize it.
See you just created another log jam. What is your IQ anyway?
Nope. Just eliminates multitudes of potential commenters and allies.
But within the courtroom Discourse, geometry won’t fly with a jury nor most judges. Not unless you can make it very image friendly.
If you do disqus you don’t need invites. IN fact you can’t do disqus with invites as you have to check the setting of “anyone.” Then you can kill with blacklisting. Wouldn’t getting rid of me be enough incentive for you to learn something? Anything? There is always hope.
Don’t know about the shape, but DT’s missing lower leg/foot is weird.
LOL–never even noticed he was minus a foot! :0
…and whilst Mr.T probably doesn’t sting like a bee, he certainly floats like a butterfly in the uncropped version of ‘white hat crowd’. He’s in mid-air.
Try it at home…..you just do a single line and copy it across. It fits. The closer in you go, the better the fit. You can cut the section out and transfer it across.
And again those railings in the central image. They’re not the Forum railings. The woman in the very distinctive scalloped vest is a real figure, who was there at the Forum for a good while, and got caught up in the blast. She had a distinctive pink and white scarf with a skull motif.
Given that she was at the Forum a good long while, how does that figure get from the front railings to the railings near the camera in such a short time ? Even if it took her only 5 seconds, Mr.T would not appear on both shots. He could appear on one, but not both: he’d be still en route, or long gone. Look also at the other figures: The two images are intended to show a particular place at a particular time.
thats another “gotcha” post
Isn’t it just!???! Well done S! Shall we write this up?
We will, but I can’t tonight. Big respect to Renny on this one as well. We’ve been in contact about these images, and there’s more to report. I’ll try to do it tomorrow.
Speaking as our resident flashbang expert, if the backpack in the Blue Runner photo was the bomb, and the backpack remained where it was (allowing for the restricted movements people made in the moments of uncertainty)….what are the chances of that side of the tree escaping without a scratch ? Pre- and post-blast photos show that. Google streetmap from about 2 years ago, blast aftermath and ‘crimescene’ shots all show it. Not a scratch, not a scorch, not a dent. That’s one other thing I’ve been working on and will try to post tomorrow.
What’s your opinion on the tree ?
It could be a fluke of circumstance. We’d have to see the side of the tree that we cant!
Fair enough BabyB – I did post a fuller response to Mrs.Peel below. What are the chances of such a fluke ?.
Quite high I’d say. The tree itself is very narrow – low surface area. It’s also very close-shrapnel did not have time to spread out over it’s ‘wider area’. Most of the small shrapnel flew into the street and hardly any was flung into the crowd near the tree. If it sustained any damage from ‘that bag’ it would of been in the form of a large chunk very near the base.
..and there isn’t one. No dent, no loose bark, nothing.
I defer to your superior knowledge of explosives. What’s your opinion about the possibility of heat damage at the base of the tree ?
I’d expect to see something but not anything major. The heat would of just gone either side because the tree is so narrow.
BB’s knowledge of explosives is for her and us. Since she is not one of those certified, corporate,govt employed authorities on explosives what she says about them mean very little. Go to Dave’s site to see his analysis and ask BB to critique it for you.
This is the kind of thing that led dave to suspect a simulation. The pattern of the debris, the lack of blood, the inconsistency of the official narrative and the images. But to take him seriously you have to come to believe your govt is capable of such treachery. That’s a hard jump unless you are already there.
I don”t have the answer, but I think it is more difficult for a governement to stage a whole bomb site rather than sacrifice a handfull of persons. I don’t know what governements are capable of ,but is seems to me they usually don’t shy away from killing people if they think it is for there own greater good.You can ask irakis, afghans and syrians about this, they possibly will agree.
Many of us have come to the conclusion that it was a combination of both and that the people didn’t really know unless they were the actors. If I had been there in the middle of it I would have probably thought it was all real.
Hello Pat.
You and ab both have a good point here. I often encounter people from the countries you mention, and there’s and intresting mix of opinion. As for governments, do you recall the ludicrous situation here recently when the Afghan interpreters (who were regarded as good enough to risk their lives out there) were to be offered ‘resettlement packages’ in return for agreeing to stay over there, and not to bother the UK government ? They’d be ‘re-settled’ alright, fast-tracked to an early grave. It’s a particularly nasty brand of ruthlessness: masquerading as generosity, and reliant on the notion that everybody can be bought. The interpreters had signed up in good faith, but having served their purpose, could be discarded. Thank God they fought back.
A drill needs to be a big exercise involving many different agencies. That circle was too wide and vulnerable to infiltration. The hijackers knew well in advance. With most people there on the day unaware of the drill plan, it was an ideal event to hijack. The government would not need to stage the entire incident, only have the drill under control. As soon as the drill is hijacked, there’s chaos for real, on a scale that the drill had never intended. The ‘players’ in the drill would initially not have known whether to continue as per plan, or get the blazes out of there.
To Saunders and Abbey.
I went through many hypothesis. I think the most plausible one is , like you , that the drill was hijacked.
The question is by who and why. My gut feeling is that by now, the governement knows perfectly who hijacked the drill. To avoid one massive scandal (this gvnmnt seems to be collecting them already) they have decided to use the kid as their scapegoat, it is easier and cleaner. And they prefer to shoot at anyone that could put their narrative in danger rather than admit it.
No , one life, even if its still a kid is not worth much more than that. What is sickening is that to play their part to the end, they are ready to torture him, humilate him , encourage hatred towards him and target his familly. I don’t think those brush ups with the law the family is getting is a coincidence.
Spot-on, Pat.
Many possibilities about the hijack: elements within the CIA, rogue FBI, infiltrators of that private security firm that was there. The contracts for participating in security exercises are lucrative: one purpose of hijacking is to discredit other agencies. If TT was a busted ‘asset’, he was a liability. If he’d been approached and refused, he was a liability. Political infighting between various LE agencies, out of egos, spite, bids for power, and money….Then there’s the Caspian pipeline…big energy reserves, ie further motives and much wider involvement. Could have been that the Tsarnaevs were perfect scapegoats. I think it’s significant that they were/are Chechen. …the ‘double explosion’ signature.
The ruthless determination to cover up and to obstruct the defence only makes it more obvious that there is something so wrong here that any price is worth paying: Gods other than justice are being served here, cravenly and wilfully. The Tsarnaevs are ‘collateral damage’. But as coach had always held, the whole thing’s been scuppered when Mama T exposed the lie. It’s been panic-stations ever since, but it gets more ruthless. If the Tsarnaevs ‘have’ to be destroyed, well that’s just a small price for ‘maintaining public confidence in LE’. We all know what that usually means, in any country.
Another interesting point is that Dzh.T is off-script by pleading ‘not guilty’. It’s now not as quick and clean as they reckoned it would be. No swift boxing off to the ranks of the living dead with no questions asked…
I agree Saunders. However, I keep on wondering about the hatred towards DT, (obvious in the correspondance between Ortiz and DT’s lawyers) and fuelled by the media . This is not “natural”, usually, once a man is down, that is it. I wonder if it is because their case is not as strong as they pretend?
The other possibility would be that they have plans concerning Tchechenya / Daghestan and the brothers were used in that optic (gather public support for despicable actions)?
The media’s been stoking it up right from the kickoff.CBS’s John Miller is a former high-ranking FBI man….the note in the boat….originally came via Miller, I think. It stokes all this BS ‘patriotism’ and frames the Tsarnaevs as failures in the ‘American Dream’. It fosters a notion that the US is the be-all-and end-all of human existence. So anybody dissenting is by definition a threat. Why is the phrase ‘unAmerican activities’ ringing a bell….?
And, as always, some people need somebody to hate. It makes them feel better. And it makes money. There’s some sadistic *********** out there: some really vile characters in the twittersphere and elsewhere.
I doubt there’s much of a case, if any case at all. That’s why there’s been such a determined effort to isolate Dzh.T, and to obstruct the defence. God forbid that the truth should come out….
There has never been a kosher investigation. From the very start, there’s been an insistence that the only ‘acceptable’ scenario (acceptable to LE & govt, that is) and the only POSSIBLE scenario are one and the same.
‘We don’t know who they are, but we’re not looking for anybody else’…’don’t look at ANY other images…’ Obama asking ‘why’ the brothers did it: he’s saying that they did it, full stop. Genck – who could see no other possibility other than the visible backpack as teh cause of the explosion….we’ll we’d all agree with that, but on the grounds that there’s so much that CAN’T be seen, not on the grounds that all other possibilities have been exhausted. They’ve tried to close it down from the start, but Dzh.T didn’t die an didn’t plead guilty. So now it’s a REAL emergency,
One part of the narrative has been that they’re immigrants who were welcomed to the US with open arms, given asylum, social security benefits…and in the end they “turned against the country that had given them shelter”. I believe there is some kind of immigration reform being pushed at the moment in the US, and this gives them an argument as to why there should be a change in rules…Please, correct me if I’m wrong.
I’ve read some articles where they were discussing if the Tsarnaves should have been given asylum – if they felt safe to go back to their country few years later.
They’re easy targets – immigrants, Muslim, family lived on social security benefits…
Very good point. One of the first full-colour shrieking headlines showed Tamerlan’s picture and the headline ‘What a nerve !’.
That agenda’s lurking alright.
The area of the shrapnel and debris is on Dave’s site. The one on simulation. And you still haven’t answered me on that question.
You are getting very close to Dave’s analysis of simulation.
…see also my response to Mrs.Peel regarding the lack of damage to the visible section of the tree. Pre- and post-blast, the tree doesn’t have a mark on it. Not a scorch, not a scratch, nothing. How does it escape if that backpack at that place contained a bomb powerful enough to kill via its blast wave and its shrapnel – and cause burns to people several metres away. How does the tree escape ?
What we don’t see is the other side of the tree.
remember they pulled those landscape grates out and dug around that tree for the better part of the next day – and then the next day it was cut down – roots and all…..
EDIT: and in the Roberts video – there is smoke coming out of those grates before the old timer walks over and starts poking around.
Indeed coach, indeed, but there’s pictures from before they got round to that. So, if it’s suggested that that side of the tree took a hammering because the bomb was in the backpack between the tree and the mailbox, we know what to make of such a claim, I think.
and one more thing – Mr Richard in his only interview claims the tree saved little Jane by taking the brunt of the blast.
Tree is hit from behind, absorbs some of the energy, deflects the rest ? We don’t know exactly where everybody was in the moments after the first explosion. Such an element of chance as to who lives and who dies. Lu was seen being treated on the sidewalk behind the tree. First rule of first response: treat them where they fall…..
S, something is odd with the line-up. There’s a victim who doesn’t move when everyone around her is moving and others have been carried away. I believe it is the deceased Ms. Lu and she was partially beneath the mailbox. Which means either Ms. Zhou is seen sitting upright against the Forum patio railings post-explosion, or that is Ms. Lu who is wounded in ways not visible to Ms. Dayan’s camera from across the street.
Thanks Missie, I’m onto it. Which is the Dayan photo ?
What!? I missed that! That is pink skull scarf lady in both pics?
I think that’s who it’s supposed to be. A very distinctive figure, wouldn’t you say ? And known to have been at a certain restaurant patio at a certain time.
Creepy…
Yes Em – same woman.
Here ya go!
See how you get distracted with diversionary tactics. That’s not to criticize Saunders, because it’s part of the Dominating Discourse to distract your attention.
It’s good to have them but they can be interpreted, re-interpreted, then re-interpreted over and over and over. A long ping-pong game. If I had Robert Pattinson/Kristen Stewart fans over here they would re-educate all of you on this stuff, but they are not political. Alas.
Meet the contour twins.
I’ve been looking at some DT backpack pics:
I’ve used the set of small pics below (there’s one with, and one without my ‘art work’), which I found on the Internet, and Renny’s larger stills, which are down thread.
On top of the backpack there’s a shadowy shape (orange circles). It’s clearly visible in the small pics, but also in Renny’s, though less defined. At first I thought it was a tag or bag handle or something, but it’s oddly positioned. Something seems to be pushing through the material from the inside. Could it be the end of the handle of a small pressure cooker standing up on its side (see red drawing)?
DT’s backpack is deeper than it looks. It consists of two, or even three, compartments. The centre bottom pic shows it in part from its side – it looks like a mirrored L shape. In the corresponding ‘arty’ pic, I’ve drawn the contours of the front and side in blue – the blue triangle is the back side of the bag. If the handle of the cooker would point upwards, the lower part and bottom of the pot would point backward, which would explain the odd L shape of the bag.
Also, the front compartment of the backpack is left open; that open compartment in the top left small pic corresponds with the darker, shadowy part of the light backpack in the Blue Runner pic.
These observations are quite disturbing – if anyone sees it differently, please, I’d love to hear. On the other hand, I’ve often accused the US government of tunnel vision, esp. where DT’s “jihadist” motives are concerned, so I shouldn’t apply reverse tunnel vision myself, where everything is explained from a point of view of his innocence.
Of course, there are also the observations that DT’s bag doesn’t seem that heavy, and that he seems quite careless in his movements… I mean, a pressure cooker doesn’t necessarily need to contain explosives, right?… But right now I have the feeling I’m clutching at straws.
Hello Mrs.Peel.
The stills may be a bit misleading, especially if they’re taken from the Whiskey’s footage after it had been in the possession of the FBI. The clunky effect in the video is not slow motion, it’s because frames have been taken out. We’re down to 1 frame a second, from many many more. There was a fuller version that got taken down almost immediately: shows Tamerlan glancing at the figure in the alcove, the one who’s making all the hand gestures. This is now all gone. The company that deals with Whiskey’s CCTV prides itself on really good set-ups and really good kit. Unless there’s enough frames (still or video) to show the movement, it’s difficult to conclude anything.
As to the Blue Runner picture: if that backpack remained where it was, it’s almost certainly innocent.
Tentatively,
Orange circles – I think it’s a crease, the bag material is being inwards rather than outwards. I think this because of the way the bag hangs. Follow the right strap down, it looks more like a natural fold. It’s also possible that it’s a large zipper pull.
Blue arrow: To me, the open pocket is much further down than the patch on the black bag.
Have you seen the stills from the other angle, where he’s coming round the corner ? It’s empty-looking and creased.
I’m about to post at the top of the thread regarding some other images. Love to hear your opinion.
EDIT.
Just posted…..at the top, but it’s sunk beneath stuff that was posted hours ago. There’s a visual.
“As to the Blue Runner picture: if that backpack remained where it was, it’s almost certainly innocent.”
What?? LOL. Yes, and if that backpack didn’t explode, it’s probably still where it was.
Thanks Mrs.Peel, but with respect, I still beg to differ, on the following grounds.
That side of the tree is completely unscathed. Pre- and post-blast photos show that, and show it from the base to a considerable way up.
The heat of the blast was enough to cause burns and singed hair on people several metres away. Why is there no scorching on the tree ?
Blast waves are what strip limbs of all soft tissue, and then there’s shrapnel.
With the tree being immobile, it would have had to absorb a considerable force before ‘equal and opposite reaction’ occurs. Yet there’s not a single scorch mark, burn, or a scratch of shrapnel damage on that side of the tree. Not even any loose bark. At the very least the melted part of the backpack would have left its mark.
What we don’t see is the other side of that tree.
Morning, Saunders. Which side of the tree do you want to see? The side from the Forum?
That’s what we really need…..Let’s take this offline for the moment. See you soon. :)
Hi, Mrs. Peel. I can see where you’re going with this. The backpack is folded in a way, as if there was a pan/saucepan/cooker with a handle upwards, as you’ve so nicely drawn on the pic. We cannot categorically state that there was no pressure cooker in his backpack. But his careless attitude would suggest that the cooker was either empty or didn’t really contain anything explosive.
I don’t think that the darker backpack on the ground is the same backpack though.
As we’ve suggested down the thread, he might have been part of a drill and as such he could have had a cooker in the backpack.
Of course, he may have been part of a drill, yes. The fact is, I see a bump on top of that bag and I can no longer ‘unsee’ it – it bothers me.
The pressure cookers – if I was shoving that device in my pack the handle would be coming off. Period. I’d saw it off if I had too. The other thing to consider is that 50% of pressure cookers do not have side handles anyway – and if I recall correctly the device they were said to of constructed theirs from had no side handles. Now you’ve ‘seen’ it, consider all the other variables to make a decision over what you think it could be.
I’ve thought of a tennis racket, a baseball bat… but they don’t account for the odd L shape of that bag.
Hmmm. Neither does a pressure cooker. Wonder what he had in there?! So frustrating.
Well, actually, I think a pressure cooker DOES account for the L shape. This thought won’t leave my mind soon I’m afraid.
Well, then that’s where it shall remain unless you see something else that convinces you otherwise. This is fine – it’s all part of the journey and of course none of ever has to agree. We each interpret evidence differently which is the beauty of reasoned discussion like this.
about 4 pictures above – before the start of the article – WWW has one of DT with backpack (right corner of 4) in that picture the pack appears to be sliding off his shoulder and see how the pull of the fabric flatens out the top of the bag. Something is in there – it has some weight – I dont think 30 lbs as suggested these bombs weigh – but something is in their causing the bag to shift positions and shapes,
He was zigzagging through the crowd of course, so the bag swung with his body I suppose. And no, it can’t have been 30 lbs.
Didn’t they say that the 2nd bomb was actually smaller? I’m sure I’ve read that somewhere…
I now see a small, squarish bump on top of TT’s backpack as well.
thats why I was asking Renny for the pik – if anything in those backpacks weighed over 20 lbs it should have all gravitated to the lowest nook of the pack and give us a bare outline of the pot regardless of handle or not.
I dont see a “sack of potatoes” look in any of the pictures – no outlines – nothing – except your wierd handles?
hmmm?
the reports are they were the same size pressure cookers – 6 quarts – whatever that is?
remember it is the same one DM had in his bag.
I do! Same damn pressure cooker. What are the odds?
I would not be the least bit surprised if they were told to pack two pressure cookers with some fireworks powder to give the bomb sniffing dogs something to go for. There were 4 others found that day in trash cans along the route – one was detonated, the other three were determined to be duds.
And down thread – last night Guest posted another site were something happened and I got distracted with something else –
anyway – I think we have all never seriously thought they were naive in this – I have advocated for some time now they just didnt expect their number to get called.
Yes BB/Mrs Peel – the picture at the top of this site shows the lid of the pressure cooker they used – it is the screwed down variety with no handles….we went roundie roundie on this and I think the conclusion we reached is that it was the screwed down and lying on its side within the tree grade. That accounts for the dual thrust of the explosion – towards the Forum and towards the street – dual smoke clouds, dual fire pattern etc., etc., I think it is the weight of whatever it is pulling the fabric downwards giving the appearance of something poking through. I have blown this up a bit – I will leave it here.
Thanks Coach. And to be absolutely clear: I mean this ‘bump’ (yellow):
Mrs. Peel, I’ve tried it with my own backpack. I put a normal cooker without a handle inside a backpack and it did the same thing to the top. The reason being – it’s only hanging on one strap. That means the strap is pulling up that one side – and because the backpack is not full and whatever is inside is at the bottom – there is this empty space inside that shows as folding down only on that side where the strap is not pulling it up. If he had it on both shoulders, the folding wouldn’t be there.
Hey Renny – I am curious – if you lay that pot on its side and pull both straps over each shoulder as Tamerlan is wearing his – is there some kind of a crease running alongside the edge of the top of the pot?
In another words – shouldnt we be able to see that pot outlined against the bag as it is lying there on its side (it is supposed to have wieghed between 20 -30 lbs)? Kind of a sack of potatoes effect – ya know what I mean?
Can you take a picture of that and show us?
Oh yes please Renny! A pic would be great. I sense we have all been filling our old rucksacks with massive saucepans from the kitchen cupboard for months now – I know I have! Yet I don’t have the facility to take pics and post. I concluded something similar to yourself.
EDIT: Daughter is here with phone! Shall I give it a bash too?
don’t laugh, please
The cooker is empty btw.
that is something of the optical effect – not sure though – would need weight in the bag.
filling it up just now…
is this the crease you meant, Coach? There’s no more than 6kg in the bag, which is about 13lbs.
sort of – I actually do have a 6 quart pot and 20 llbs of weights in it – and I put it on my grand daughter – it sags and creases horizontally across the back – as I thought.
I have taken pictures and when I figure out photo stream again – I will post them.
I will remind everyone 20llbs is no easy task – carrying on your back swaying in the crowd.
When I told her to wear only one strap it definitely pulls hard to one side and it stretches the fabric oddly – but because it is so heavy there is no give to the fabric – zero. The weight of the pot shifts to one corner of the bag and it looks like a handle, But again there is no give in the fabric as we see in DT’s piks.
So – my conclusion is there maybe a pot in there, but in no way – does either bag weigh 20 lbs – maybe less than 5-6 (like Renny’s above) but not an ounce more.
Here ya go – these are double shoulder strap
If either of them was carry a 20-30 pound we would see that pot wrap those back packs right around themselves like in these pictures above. And like you said – I had my grand daughter walk about 40 feet down the street and granted she is not as big or strong as either brother – that pot swayed with every step as the pot kept falling to the lowest point in the bag.
Awesome, Coach. I think this proves that the backpacks of the boys didn’t contain anything that huge or heavy. At best they only had empty pots in them.
Something else to consider – I just measured how wide my 6 qt pot is – and its 9 and 1/2 inches wide and about 9 inches long. That size and object is not in either of those packs. So that clinches it – the weight and the size.
Well I can only give you one single strap – but I think it suffices. The weight pulls the bag to the left creating the handle effect. But it is not the same effect as DT’s
Good morning. Yeah, there’s no way either of those bags contained anything so huge. Some observations:
I don’t know what you filled it with but I put some packs of flour, rice and salt, and some cans of tuna and sardines. The pot was filled to the top, but when walking the cans still made a lot of noise banging against the stainless steel of the pot. I was thinking, if they’re suggesting the pots were full of BBs, nails and I don’t know what…wouldn’t it be quite noisy?
Also, according to the indictment Tamerlan bought 48 mortars (whatever that is) containing 8lbs of low explosive powder. So, that’s 4lbs for each of them, and the rest of the weight is the BBs, nails, etc. How many BBs and nails would they have used to bring that weight to that?
Tamerlan’s backpack doesn’t contain anything heavy, because there’s no sagging or folding – the only way it looks like his backpack is – if the pot inside is empty – like in my first pics above. Even few kilos of weight will show the folding of the fabric – like in my other pic.
BB or Saunders, somebody has the estimated weight of these bombs. Its between 20 – 30 llbs and BB estimates there was probably more powder or other stuff.
Just on its face thats not enough explosive from low grade fireworks (mortars) to build all the bombs LE claims they had. As you rightly point out that is enough for two per the GJI – Hmmm?
one “shoulder” version – although I’m sure Coach’s photos on an actual person will show it better.
yes please do. I think I will try also.
This whole part of the thread is hopeless. Bye.
I’m not sure the cooker I have is as big. And there is noone here who could take stupid pics of me with a cooker in a backpack :)
So, the only thing I can do, is hang it on a chair and hope it will show up the same.
Let’s see…
LOL I’ve been fooling around with different backpacks all day – but am not the owner of a pressure cooker.
You are saying that that squarish ‘bump’ on top (my yellow line) is only there because the bag is hanging off one strap? I do understand that the seams are pulled up where the strap connects to the main body of the bag – but this bump is half way between that seam at the back and the one at the front.
You will not prove anything with this. It is important to create doubt in the mind of any reader to want to further explore the official narrative.
Interpretation won’t fly. It is only for your own understanding. That’s not going to help DT survive this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
The ‘open pocket’ that you see on the bag that is on the floor by your blue arrow is an illusion Em. When you bring out the detail of that area properly you can see that the front of it actually passes INFRONT of the railing. It’s actually a plastic zip tie that was tied to the railing. There was a small sign there earlier in the day that ended up falling off and getting trodden on – but the zip tie remained. there is no ‘pocket’ as such on that bag – just the illusion of one created by the zip tie in the foreground.
No, I don’t mean the oval shape – I know what you mean about the zip tie. I mean the square open pocket (see the green square below). You can even look inside – there’s a lighter coloured square (a label maybe?) inside – I coloured it yellow.
Sorry Em, I misunderstood. Here is my take anyway – IF that is the same ‘open pocket’ in the same position for both bags then the one on the ground cannot possibly be the same. it has far too much black coloring in that area to be considered the same bag.
I want to believe you, but am not convinced :-(
Mrs P. just curious, which pressure cooker model with handle are you using for your lined diagram here? There are several models, some with side handles, some with a black handle that fits over the entire lid, along with the extended handle. While I agree it definitely looks like there could be something pointy at the top of DT’s gray pack, the volume of the bag looks narrow, because the top middle photo of your sequence of six shows there is a white band around the bottom of the bag, and the black swath on the side we can see appears to be part of the padded shoulder strap assembly. (edit: and if it is the pointed handle, wouldn’t that put the ridged/humped portion of the handle hitting on his spine? could that be uncomfortable–IDK–just thinking the handle would go on the outside,with the flat part of the pot against your back but maybe it would not fit in back that way?)
Somewhere, there was a FAGOR model analysis posted showing that the remains of the pressure cooker lid assembly as seen above doesn’t match the model put out by LE. (a miracle if I can find it again, but it has to do with the indentation and the screws.) Here’s a diagram of a model, and it does not show that screw on the side of the damaged lid–that screw would appear to hold the handle in place, and the FAGOR diagrams don’t appear to have that assembly for the long handled models. But if you can settle this issue, it would be wonderful to get it resolved, one way or another as to the model, assembly, etc. v. the only evidentiary photo we have to date. (you probably already have all this data, but thought would post it if others might not)http://www.fagoramerica.com/shop2/replacement_parts/splendid_elite
Which model did I use for that toddler-type drawing? LOL. I’ve looked at various models, but actually just to see if there were smaller ones than the 6 litre pots. The drawing was only to illustrate how a cooker with one long handle could fit into a laptop bag. Maybe DT has a normal saucepan in that bag, I don’t know. Will try to make a better picture tomorrow, but can’t promise anything.
Speaking of pressure cookers: What do you think the object below the yellow arrow is in the lower pic? Could it be a piece of the side of the cooker? Or is it a cell phone? It looks as if a guy carrying a blue helmet picks it up in the Robert video (around the same time the fire dept guy is picking sth up near The Tree). Blue Helmet can be seen in several pics – he’s coming all the way from the opposite street wearing the helmet still on his head. And there’s another pic where he’s walking past the injured people. I’ve always wondered why he’s there – another one taking away evidence?
You and me. In the Robert video he is brazen – and I always wondered what it was he picked up. He walks right by those cops who are shooing people away.
Exactly! But what do you think that object is? First I thought it was a cell phone – but now I’m not so sure.
were you able to get even a glimpse of what it was I just saw a shadow and then it gets covered.
It’s the object below the yellow arrow, I think (in my second pic).
It is that object, but after blue helmet man passes, the area is definitely empty. I’ve taken about 15 screen captures, enlarged them, and still cannot discern what it is other than something flat that may or may not have buttons on it. (But here it is again, and now it may have a flap on it?)
I will see what I can do. I will go to the top.
Hey – I got back here at 6:00 pm and it was empty. Normally we are all busy humming along –
I know it. Here’s another shot at it. This is rather awful, but there is a leg beneath the mailbox, in the enhanced photos I have, and that makes me lean more toward it was a wallet–one of the victims had been holding it his hand, or it was in a jean pocket.
Forget it all. You’ve been scooped. Here’s a 7 hour documentary done by a kid who has a wizard T-shirt on a la Harry Potter. It is awesome. A lot, and I mean a lot, of it is his reading into the camera. Much of it is ground you have covered but so much more. Back history of everyone, really just too much to even say. It’s on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjX8KBZ0VY
seen it –
have his pdf file too
nothing new
Actually maybe nothing new – Hunt has done 2 iterations with pdf for anyone interested. If this is his third update he may have some new stuff – I read the pdf much faster – so I will go check. Everyone here should have the 2nd iteration already – I posted it here a couple of months ago.
You know, I think it is a wallet. Here is a photograph of the scene, and I’ve enlarged it. Now, I once again have to sign off, sorry.
Edit: Maybe Mrs P’s blue helmet man scoops up both the tablet and the wallet. BTW, I have another photo of the ginger-hair man, don’t know if BB has it or not. Will post down thread.
good night
Good. Reinventing the wheel eh. You have some detail he doesn’t have of course, but he has the big picture and he has connected the dots. Or many of them. Why don’t you just add to his work and fill it in. Or wouldn’t that be proprietary enough for you.
you can do it. I bet you’d love the work.
Ive got the other one blown up a bit more.
It looks a phone or a tablet –
Click on it – it should blow right up,
I will mess with this one too.
Here is the other one blown up. I think it was a wallet in front of the phone or tablet – might have got knocked off the ledge or to one side as the poor person was thrashing around. The phone/tablet came to the fore after that.
Actually, I’m afraid I’ve spotted the third victim, she appears to have been partially blown underneath the mailbox. I have to believe she was deceased in the image because during all the activity around her, including the removal of Ms. Sdoia, moving around by the Nordens brothers, the little Woolf is long gone, and Marc Fucarile has been rescued, she doesn’t move until she is pulled free. I’ll have to tell BB about this.
It looks like an open wallet to me…
these are two different objects….you sure about this?
Do you and BB have this photo of ginger-man? Can either of you enlarge it, there’s some detail here, but you may already have it?
yes I have blown it up a while back for BB — she was cataloguing everything I could find and blowing it – we were trying to find ears for Saunders…LOL
thought so! :)
Brazen or indifferent?
You have a keen eye. Here are my guesses: a) It’s a communicator. Spock & Kirk are still looking for it. b) It’s a wallet, and eagle-eyed blue helmet man is a common thief who sees an opportunity. c) It’s a cell-phone, and was used as the detonating device.
Now, you haven’t commented on blue helmet and who he looks like, but there are many photos of him around, right?
jeepers creepers batwoman!!!
EDIT: he is way way way to short – but nice try – please play again..
Ha, think I’d rather be boy wonder if you are batman! LOL! Crime-fighting duo–now I am once again amused. BTW, do you agree about blue-helmet boy?
Interesting guy – but he is way to short for who you are thinking of – BB or Mrs Peel – said our buddy is 6’2″ and helmet boy cant be more that 5’6″ – 5’7″ at the most.
Okay, but does our friend have a brother? Seems I recall that fact. Just throwing it out there for consideration.
Blue helmet wallet thief–snappy little fellow.
Not a resemblance here. For a view, BabyB will be able to direct you to the relevant site.
Our friend has two brothers, neither of which look like him! Both older and with dark (almost black) facial hair and almost bald. I’d go with wallet thief! (Can’t believe I just said that!)
Right, Blue Helmet is too short and too skinny. The Other One has a ginger beard, but not this type of ginger hair. Brother is black-haired and chubby.
Be convinced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
See you are trying to explain it in words. When you watch the shopping youtube video you won’t have to do that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
The inside/outside of the railing was a focus of this youtube slo mo shopping lesson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
That youtube showing the photoshopping in slo mo addressed that perfectly. Go view it. I think this is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
It won’t fly. It is there to have convinced us in the beginning. But it will not convince a skeptic. Anything can be shopped. IN OR OUT. And everyone knows that. So what proves it for you can be said to have been shopped by someone else. And unless the photoshopping itself runs in slo mo like that one youtube that is so very good by the UK woman, you can’t ever know unless you actually do it yourself or watch someone else do it.
Hany Farid.
Yes. Always beware of shadows.
BB: your favorite topic, the ginger-haired man, do you have any updates from the investigation underway on him after his capture? I understand the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force was running the investigation. I saw he was being arraigned for the 2PM disturbance he caused–any way to ask any journalists in the Boston area if they’ve heard more about the man? Has JTTF closed the case? (blog?) thanks. (that arraignment was back in the latter part of July–any other sites seen/updated on him after the Reuters story broke?)
I checked out his hearing date a week after it was supposed to have happened – I called David Abel (?) the reporter at the BG – and he actually emailed me back and said the hearing was postponed – delayed (?) Not sure what he meant. Anyway I havent followed up since then – this was mid early September…
Thanks for the catch-up, perhaps BB can check? I cannot turn up anything else on line at the moment.
I can email Abel I suppose. We have not turned up ANYTHING on this guy in relation to his court proceedings. I know that when he was remanded to the care of a local mental health establishment reporting restrictions were put on the case due to medical reasons. The charges he faces are not a patch on what he SHOULD be facing either. He had all that stuff, there was an armed siege that went on for hours at his house – he has been charged with ‘making threats to blow up and aeroplane’ and a public order charge last time I looked. This is why this guy is so important. I’ve said it before – yes we have to tread carefully because he has a history of mental illness – but to me that doesn’t excuse what he was caught with! I have some very disturbing quotes that came from his own mouth. This guy is dangerous and walking the streets of Boston on BAIL. Why? Why has he not been charged with ‘attempting to make a weapon of mass destruction’ a la DT? Why is no one reporting on him still? Are the restrictions still in place? Why has no one investigating the case commented? Why? He is a ghost who has disappeared. Again, why?
I think I read that the assessment in the big house lasts for 6 months. It’s becoming problematic for somebody because they probably thought it would be all over by now.
It was – but then we was deemed well enough to be back out again. So rather than remand him in custody to jail where he damn well ought to be they released him on bail – go figure? Then the trail died. I was thinking maybe his bro in Maryland? Excellent job, well respected, never been in trouble – parents are out of the question, but the bro may of been able to argue he’d be ‘safe’ in his care? IDK.
Are you telling us this man is out on bail NOW?
Yes I am. That’s exactly what I’m telling you Missy. This is why Em and I have been franticly searching for anything – anything – on him. Did you read the treasure trove of personal info Em unearthed? My God. It was a while ago and I actually ended up feeling sorry for him because he clearly suffered episodes of mental illness which he clearly knew about…..but…..a very scary man. I get the impression from a lot of it he was also scared of himself. Scared of what he was capable of when he slipped into an episode. Seriously shocking – he enjoyed emulating serial killers from films etc, he agreed with their reasoning behind their mass killings, one of his motto’s was ‘if your’re not fighting for a cause why live?’ he had a fascination with guns, a very domineering father who he was always desperate to please but never did, the list goes on.
Good grief. Well, possibly the MSM is scared off of him because of the mental illness aspects. So, knowing all this weirdness, are you working on Plan B? I know you couldn’t actually find him at BMB on that video, or am I wrong? (I couldn’t see anything but the ear and the hairline which looked like a much older man to me and not a match, but that’s all I recall you and S discussing at the last there. If there is more, keep going, please.)
Well, I am more ruthless than Em! I was all prepared to do a post of ‘Morley quotes’ alongside some of the stranger pics of him we unearthed and ask the obvious questions: ‘why is this man on bail? why has this man not been charges in accordance with what he was found with? why are the MSM not showing any interest in this man considering the circumstances? why do authorities refuse to comment?
He also worked within eyeshot of Collier’s police cruiser at MIT and the place was crawling with feds…..who were there on an unrelated matter….
Problem is: is that going too far?
In answer to your question, has a blanket of silence been dropped over him in the MSM? Are there any recent articles about him or has he completely disappeared from the radar? Can that be the focus of your post–an IED builder in the area? Has anyone done a thorough search of either April 15th site to determine if he appears there? I think something lowkey and very tempered–has this once-lead been completely discounted by authorities? (because in truth, we have no knowledge of however many IED builders could be found in a given area–is he just suspicious–in the wrong place/wrong time and that’s it, and that is why MSM has punted on the story–there has to actually be something newsworthy, some new angle for it to be posted, or we are no more than op-ed–shining folks on.) So, I could be completely wrong on this.
EDIT: and could this be tied into the red powder (non-explosive) in the fireworks v. the need to find the source of the (explosive) blackpowder?? Has this been done, or did you do so in the previous posts–sorry, I’m drawing a blank.
I think you are on the right track Missie. BB bring it down a notch – here is potential suspect why hasnt there been any followup by law enforcement or the media?
That story on him was up and down so quick – I bet even some of the hardcore followers havent heard of this angle.
If anything it might get you a few more leads or more information.
That’s the other problem – they have. If that was the case I would of posted on it months ago. Everyone is aware of DM and the lack of LE and Media follow up. Everyone. It’s totally old news.Which is why I wanted to introduce something new – something straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I wouldn’t be making it up. He did actually say those things. And no one has heard them – that’s a given. Again, I’ll always go with the group so if it’s too far it’s too far.
The red powder thing never happened as far as I know. All fireworks are made with black powder. Red powder is ‘smokeless’ and is not much good for fireworks. I think the rumour started when the pics of the tossed fireworks came out. People saw that the powder looked/empty tubes had a red tinge to them and assumed the worst, but were uninformed as to the difference. the red tinge is more than likely a result of the ‘stars’ – a color compound that is used in the fireworks to give the colors you see exploding in the air. Again – only black powder in fireworks, never red.
Yeah, I read that entire journal a couple of times, and he seems like a decent person, that’s why I say be careful what you write.
I do realize that he might be a completely different – possibly dangerous – person during a manic period. And yes, he worked very close to where Collier had parked his car. And there’s the name on the leased SUV…
Fascinating. I dont know what to make of this – just stumbled on another rock. Scroll to the very bottom article.
http://www.zhn.cz/en/world-developments.htm#Boston-bombing-update
I did and I don’t get it? the pdf stuff and the 2006 to current date change? what does it mean? (or am I looking at the wrong data?)
I hope we are talking about the same thing. This was blogger who had researched some of the court documents – like you were mentioning and how they coming up bogus according to some software magic he/they were applying to them – more as an fyi – kind of thing
Just read Blood on their Hands at forum. I was the first to tweet it. Couldn’t make a comment. Comments are the places where people voice their facts, opinions, contradictions, and join in solidarity. Only that can’t happen the way you are administering that blog. If you won’t listen to me, get someone you know to fix the fuggin thing. The post means nothing unless you know the sequence of events. It is meaningless as the pictures of them could be anytime or day before Collier’s murder. At least edit it and put the times in there under the pictures relative to Collier’s death. You know you have to be careful about the enemies you choose for you become like them. By going up against certain people in the govt bureaucracy without stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, you are mirroring that which you are criticizing.
Thanks AB. I’m not yet an administrator, but will amend to include the times. The images are purportedly at the Shell station where ‘Danny’ had ‘escaped;’ and the ‘carjacking’ was officially after Collier’s murder. The ATM shot is supposed to be showing the withdrawal of money with Danny’s card, as I remember. The ATM we have identified. You’re right of course, I should have included the timeline. Whilst there’s no time to be found on the Shell picture, what it purports to represent is widely-known, and reported. The point is that it hadn’t been questioned.
This post was meant to be a very quick ‘flag-up’ whilst Coach is preparing his work.
I am appalled at how badly the forum site is administered. What should have been a hub for Dzhokhar just leaks away like a sudden shower down the gutters of the road. You can’t build anything the way it is done. If you are not an admin you can’t check the stats. If you can’t check the stats, you can’t see the best ways to promote a particular post. And the best places and ways for one post will not be the same for a different post.And if you are not an admin you cannot learn how to best do your blog post. It’s like someone trying very hard to keep you stupid. I keep thinking one of you will take serious action on it. Why would you work so hard for someone who is sabotaging your fine efforts. And now that I have gone on about it, it cannot be considered a mistake, an error of some sort that could be corrected, but a deliberate, stubborn, stupid head in the sand response to someone knowing more than the “boss” and we have all been there haven’t we?
bitch and moan – bitch and moan – thats all you know how to do…..never a kind word – never anything constructive. Well nobody is twisting your arm to stay – and trust me – nobody is going to miss you when you are finally gone.
Steady there coach….let me know what you think of the visuals I put up about an hour ago. ‘The contour twins.’ Me & Renny have now joined forces.
Sorry everyone – I am not going to keep sitting idly by while abs keeps busting our chops….I guess she isnt smart enough to figure out this is a democracy, we all have access to the blog except her – because we all agree to support one another and we all agree to the work and the blog as is…..We are doing good work – it is truly a pleasure to watch how our minds all congeal around an idea and wham we shoot out a new piece to the puzzle. Its an amazing process and a priviledge to be a part of – just tired of the constant drag. Okay morning coffee just kicked in –
EDIT: thank you Saunders – you pointed me in a more civilized direction…
I get it–now get down some more coffee if that helps! :) Have you heard back from Mrs P on your post–I really enjoyed it!
Ah coach. Just read your note directing us to EFB. I was corresponding with him a few months ago (off-thread) before I was here. He’s very cool. Have you seen the contributions there by one Margo Schulter ? She’s very good to read, and is some sort of lawyer. I believe I saw patsyv’s badge up there as well. And old WoodyBox is there….
Yes I spent a good portion of last night familiarizing myself with his past writing and his cast of characters. He is someone very much on the same track as our thinking is taking us.
Margo Schulter is a writer on law matters. She is serious,knowledgeable and very throughout in her research… And more passionate than a lawyer since she does all this work for free.She certainly has helped us a lot in fdl.
That was my impression. Glad you’ve joined us, patfromuk.
They’re talking about the first hearing in the hospital – there was this pdf file transcription of the hearing, allegedly written by a court clerk who was present. What they’re saying is – the pdf file had a date of creation of June 2, 2006 – which is only possible if someone deliberately changed it. Why do that? Or the pdf file was actually created in 2006… The other thing is the 3.52 version – what they’re saying is – this file could not have been created with a 3.52 version, because of the flaw. So, the conclusion is – someone deliberately changed the properties of the file, its creation date, etc. – Why?
Again – all this is greek to me. But Missie – you and Saunders have all noticed and how the docs coming out all have problems with them. That is why I posted this for Missie – et all. I was hoping you or Saunders would take a stab at why?
No problem. I’ll read through the original Czech articles. Let’s see if I can find anything further.
Nice one Renny, Czech sounds sweet to my ears.
We’ve come across this before – the suspicions are still valid. And how’s this for a ‘ya don’t say…!’ – the problem with this one would be in archiving and retrieval of records. It would never be found, as the search would go by document properties. 2013 in the document properties may never appear. Ya don’t say…
We’ve come across this one before: I checked on the adobe website, and it all checks out (ie suspicions still very vaild). As I recall, this is about archiving and retrieval of records. If the usual search terms were to be applied, I suspect that the search return would yield nothing. A lost document in such an important case ?
The problem is – all the other documents have a normal date of creation (I checked a few that I had downloaded). This is the only one that has got this issue. So, yes, when they put it in archives, the search by year would yield nothing. But what is so important in it? Why only this particular one?
If we want to play conspiracy theorists, the bedside hearing was the moment when DT actually spoke a word “NO” and if I recall, it was all over the MSM after his capture he was unable to talk, was likely never to speak again, etc. This was put out there by Ed Davis, possibly others–it was the official story. Then we later learn, DT could still speak–and by some means, he had been asking for counsel (spoken or written, we’ve never been informed of the facts.)
But I am making an assumption we are referencing the document signed by Magistrate who came in after the HV interrogation team was done with their questioning of DT.
Yes, that’s the document we’re talking about. I remember the MSM repeating that he was unable to talk and that he was answering the questions in writing. When it came out he said the word “No”, I remember they said it was more of a mumble than a real word. I’m not sure they would go that far to basically hide that document just because of that one word.
But now I remembered there was something in that line that the interrogation team was surprised when the Magistrate came to the hospital and basically interrupted their questioning by reading him his rights. And since then he didn’t say a word to them. They were really annoyed that the judge came, or that’s how it was presented in the media.
MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow gave a really good (for MSM) summary update of the conflicting/confusing elements of the Todashev story on her show–here’s a link–you may have to click at top of the page for the video segments from today, the 23th. She’s been following this story, I believe–second or third time she has aired a segment on it. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show She also mentions the Times article on 20 years, 150 FBI self-investigations into shootings by Agents–and a 100% “clearly justified” each time exoneration each of the 150 times.
You should feature that with a youtube of Maddow.
and she called the fbi’s handling of IT’s case “a farce.”
a way too gentle euphemism.
Never heard back from that women reporter at the Boston Magazine – although the byline for the stories coming out of their are shared by 5 reporters. So – maybe I go to the next one.
But anyway – this is our guy – I have read him elsewhere and he is on our track. And he is accessible. Here is his latest on Firedoglake….
http://my.firedoglake.com/efbeall/2013/10/19/what-about-that-fbi-surveillance-just-before-it-called-the-tsarnaevs-suspects/
In re: the copies of Prosecution’s recent “filings” posted online by one Josefina Romano, maybe these are elaborate hoaxes? There are several “off” elements mixed in with the information that rings true. Lax phrases, rampant spelling errors, typos, “very truly yours” IDK. Could be cut-and-pasted from real filings easily found on line, the names of other suspects (terror or not) changed out, etc. by someone with a little knowledge. Particularly suspicious that these docs are not posted by MSM sites and that there are so many docs we’ve been told have been sealed, so why are these available to someone I can’t find on people search or facebook in the Boston area who would be a likely candidate to get access to these docs? Romano?
deliberate to throw people off trail – or fire up others????
I think to make fun of us annoying conspiracy theorists, if indeed these are elaborately constructed cut-and-paste hoaxes–lead us excitedly down the wrong path–‘o look at what the crazy Ortiz has done now’–how gullible we all are–ready to believe anything, and how little we know and/or understand the case. IDK–that’s worst case scenario, of course.
What can we do? Take them with a pinch of salt until we can verify them and just concentrate on all the other things we were doing? it’s so hard when you hear words like ‘ballistics from the gun’ just to walk away! IDK…
Nor do I, but I think we have to take a wait-n-see approach. I’m not willing to go on Pacer because there is some truly silly phrasing in these docs at present–like I wrote, legitimate wording married with very unusual ways of stating conclusions/paragraph transitions, etc. in what are typically very dry legal docs–the language standard for same is fairly routine and recognizable.
Maybe I can help with this one.
From the mountain of sealed docs, the only one that was unsealed was “129” (the one Wheeler is also citing here http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/131021-Opposition-to-Tsarnaev-Discovery.pdf ). This one is kosher, isn’t it? (As an architect and foreign I don’t have the feeling to judge if the law jargons are the correct one). I compared Josefina’s with Wheeler’s, and they are the same document. Question: is this really kosher?
The other two documents:
115: Government’s Opposition to Defendant’s Motion to Set Date for Pre-Authorization Presentation to the U.S. Attorney. There are misspellings.
Link here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/176428640/Opposition-by-USA-as-to-Dzhokhar-A-Tsarnaev-MOTION-Postpone-Setting-of-Deadline-for-Defense-Mitigation-Submission
127: “Government’s Opposition to Tsarnaev’s Motion to Vacate Special Administrative Measures (“SAMS’s”) – the “very-truly-yours” one, seems not kosher. Link here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/177954395/Opposition-to-Remove-SAMs-for-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-10212013
If You write Josefina Romano and Tsarnaev in google, You’ll find comments here. She doesn’t seem a hoax producer… what do You think? https://www.facebook.com/All4Jahar/timeline?filter=3
Agreed, the doc number 129 and posted link by EW is real–the others have been messed with or are reflective of a cut&paste. Thanks, Indi. BB–the real doc might go in your collection? If you are ready.
Doc 129 is already included. I’ll put it up as the ‘latest document’ on the blog in a few mins.
leave it out for the crazies (like some of friends) and let them run rabid with it – to
discredit the legitimate searching going on – and there does appear to be a lot of legitimate questioning picking up….
There are many out there posting “false flag” stuff that is false to clutter up the real “false flag” stuff.
And one more thing – there were k-9 units out looking for DzhT on the morning of the 19th. I distinctly remember calls for k-9 units to the area – and they searched that area in 2 block increments radiating out from the were the Mercedes was parked at 94 Spruce. If he was bleeding as was indicated on air and in the news – no way those dogs miss him.
He either hid somewhere else (left the area on his own) – was hidden by someone in the area – or someone took him from that area and hid him. The witness on Spruce said it took 10 minutes for police to make it to the vehicle. I looked over that road again – and where it was parked was at the top of the turn in the road – to proceed further would have been down hill to go back would have been down hill but at a much slighter grade. The point – is that the witness could not see all the way around the corner from where the Mercedes came – and the shootout at Spruce could have occurred before it got to him. Whoever was driving forced the police crusier off the road – as heard on scanner. Then turned around drove maybe a 100 yards – jumped out and disappeared.
I remember a you tube vid from ages ago that I watched. it was an interview with the chief of Watertown police the day after. He said that DT jumped out of the car and legged it. Officer’s chased him and he went through a garden and up over a high fence, at which point they lost him. Bearing in mind in the very same interview he was asked about the ‘prolific’ gunfire that was heard coming from around the boat. He said ‘yes – as I understand it DT was firing from the boat so we had to return fire.’
Never in my life have I seen someone fall over their own words and visibly squirm in their chair when he came out with that line. It’s an absolute classic – and I would challenge any human being on the planet to watch him talking about the gun fight that never was and deny he was lying – it is that bad – so obvious! Even people who believe the official narrative completely watch it and go ‘well, that makes me uncomfortable because that man is clearly lying’.
Ha-ha, I DO remember that obvious bit he did where his eyes got all shifty, and it was so clear he was lying,and I was watching it “live”–thanks for the memories.
Then you need to juxtapose it with some expert psychologist discussing the body language of lying. HIGH Machiavellians look you straight in the eye when they lie for example. That quote you don’t want. You want something on shifty.
well – his above account of DT legging it does not square with the dude who witnessed the Mercedes come flying up the street, almost didnt make the turn – he walks up and see the car stopped down the road and no visual of anyone or anything. He says its 10 minutes before police show up. – Not surprised. Everybody is talking out their arce on this damn case …..
I feel another post coming on….. Chief of Watertown police lied – not just on the firing from the boat issue but the foot chase too – there wasn’t one of those either!! Unbelievable. I’ve only watched about half of that interview – what else is in there?!?!?
You know, this is the opportunity to use your newly won video skills–post the video bit of him, with very little text–maybe some quotes. Definitely “draw your own conclusions” I wouldn’t use the word “lying”–you actually don’t need to-his body language screams it.
You’re right. No need to point out the obvious with that one! Don’t know about the foot chase bit though – you couldn’t tell he was obviously lying about that aspect. I guess we could look for any other contradictions in the whole interview and then just bullet point them underneath with sources as to why they are false. it would still get the point across!
Sounds good–the video bit–wonder how many actually recall that event–sent my “BS” meter buzzing.
Anyone who has believed the official explanation for this entire mess would of LONG forgotton it. it’s the way these things work. only people like us who ever remember these things.
Correct.
is that the one where there was 5-6 of them taking questions from Anderson Cooper and one question he asked – the group just rattled something off and in the middle of it the other 5 guys start looking at each other and a few of them their eyes got big – they looked real uncomfortable
No – that’s the swat interview of the guys who pulled him off the boat. this was the chief of watertown LE the very next day. gave a 10min interview all on his own.
well that swat interview is one they are going to showing in pr classes for years on how not to cut the legs off your leader in a press conference – Whew – it was obvious those guys didnt want to be there for that.
Jeez–I’m getting the notion we should collect these moments–O’Donnell has one where he ask Reynolds how the hell TT started shooting at him for no reason, and Pugliese jumps in to save Reynolds from fumbling the answer–it’s a very obvious ‘save’–we could get a bunch of these posted.
A series of the biggest Boston gaffs and uncomfortable moments ever. Sounds great.
I’m finally smiling–yes, it could be brilliant. (where is S tonight?)
Don’t know, spoke to him a few hours ago though. Was finalising Tsarnaev V Bolt I think.
Yes we could have some fun with this – the NY Post the day after saying he was firing from the boat using an automatic assault rifle – the list goes on. there’s also the Ed Davis one where he calls DT and TT ‘actors’ and almost dies as soon as he realised he’s said it. The fake limb bunch jumped on that (predictably) however, I always though it came across as ‘players’ or something similar. They were involved in the game, but not as the public new it sort of thing. you could see how uncomfortable he was with it though. It would be great if we could edit them all into just one short vid – hilarious and I bet it would catch on!
WAY – TO – GO!
he’s been very disciplined of late –
Oh Coach. Seriously – you HAVE to watch the vid I’m talking about. i’ll find the link. it is incredible – knocks the ‘uncomfortable’ swat interview out of the park.
So you take the youtube video and slow it way down. This is what what’s his name did with body language of animals at the zoo. The slowing down replay will reveal things you never suspected.
And you get to voice over what you see. Make him appear ridiculous.
C: I think we have a nice bit of new information we’ve been collecting, along with looking at maps, etc that suggest exactly this–someone sheltered him–but then how did he get past LE to get to the boat? Could he have done this? Ms. Dumas said LE searched her neighborhood where DT was hidden/found 5 doors down early that morning in the dark–they needed flashlights and she saw them moving around. Could he have been dropped off by car, “left” as part of a group from a house–well, that’s unlikely because he was found wearing the same clothes as at the ATM/Shell station shots IDK–but we have a lot of data now.
I remember watching Cnn shortly after the shelter in place order was lifted and someone reported hearing shots fired. A few minutes later a reporter came back and reported someone matching his description was seen trying to jump a fence near Arsenal but never made it over. Police were investigating. Nothing more was said about it. I forgot all about it until the other day when I looking at that property closely – trying to find Todashevs apartment. That whole area is surrounded by chain link fences. Somebody could have dropped him off behind of the those buidlings off Arsenal and he only had one fence to jump….?
Hmmmm. interesting. I always think that most BS has some basis in fact. Straight out BS is always harder to make up from scratch and remember specifically. if you ‘tweek’ the BS to something that may of occurred it solves those two problems. Chief of Police says he only got away after he went over a high fence – may be some truth in that, but not in the way he tried to make the world believe. So….
Another thing is – how did DT manage to get in the boat without leaving any blood trail on the outside of the boat. The owner of the boat said in a recent interview that there was no blood on the outside – that if there was, he would have never get anywhere close to it. So, DT climbed up on the boat, lifted the cover and got inside without leaving any trace of blood?
Well I knew I had read this before. Why is her evidence not being considered?
Todashev’s widow said Wednesday that she has records proving her husband was with her in Atlanta on Sept. 11, 2011, so he could not have been in Massachusetts on the day of the triple killing. Manukyan was married to Todashev for about three years, she said.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-29/news/os-fbi-orlando-investigation-20130529_1_fbi-agent-reniya-manukyan-agent-dave-couvertier
I think it was Indi or Renny? One of them posted that the other day. I was saying that if it could be verified properly it would be huge.
she is involved with several web sites and facebook pages ??? might be another one of those friends you make – LOLOL
Why is it always me?!?
LOL–who else?
You just have the right face for it!! LOLOL
I may change my face soon. Beaker’s eyes have been open so long he’s now had to superglue his eyelids to his forehead just to maintain the look. He must be feeling tired by now.
Found this in the comments section FDL –
OH, sorry, one more. Hassan Shibly stated that he has photographic proof that Ibragim was in Georgia with his wife at the time of the Waltham murders.
This is the dude leading the efforts to investigate what happened to Todashev.
Hi Baby B. It was me and I was trying to find something to verify her claims. She changed her story recently, so I have a problem to believe her now…At the beginning, right after Todashev’s murder she said to a paper from Boston (Boston Globe, I think) that they lived in Boston until September 2010, then moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Then in summer of 2011 HE went back to Boston and returned to Atlanta in September 2011, then they moved to Florida.
Recently she changed the story and said he never went back to Boston in the summer of 2011.
So, IDK.
I posted this below to BB – but leave a copy for you too.
I found this in the comments section FDL –
OH, sorry, one more. Hassan Shibly stated that he has photographic proof that Ibragim was in Georgia with his wife at the time of the Waltham murders.
This is the dude leading the efforts to investigate what happened to Todashev.
This is hot. The whole thing with Waltham falls apart if they prove Todashev was not there.
Right. I remember reading that somewhere. Is Mr. Shibly from CAIR? They’re in some harsh conflict recently with the FBI. Yesterday, I read that FBI put CAIR on a blacklist of sort – basically accusing them of supporting terrorists. They might get banned soon…
It’s possible that BG didn’t print what Todashev’s wife said…she’s insisting now that they stayed in Atlanta and then moved on to Florida. Has anyone ever heard what IT job was? One of his neighbours said he was very rich and spent lot of time improving his beloved Mercedes. Any idea why a rich person wouldn’t call a lawyer to be present at an interview with FBI? With all his moving around the country Mr. Todashev seems to match a profile of an FBI informant. Any thoughts, Coach?
I am still digging around – but I found this – tells half the story – I think his dad sent him money – lived off his wife and girlfriend – and fought? Pretty good work if you can get it.
http://isteve.blogspot.ca/2013/05/the-todashevs-are-back-in-news.html
this from an RT interview
Having heard the reports that Ibragim was questioned by a group of people, including several policemen, Abdulbaki also said he does not believe he would rush to engage in a one-sided fight.
He explained that his 27-year-old son studied in the Russian city of Saratov, and later in Grozny, but decided to give up his education and move to the US after going on a student internship there.
Ibragim decided to leave for Florida because he “liked America,” Abdulbaki explained, adding he never got to know what occupation, if any, his son had in the US, other than practicing sports.
Abdulbaki said they were not acquainted with the Tsarnaev family at home in Chechnya. Ibragim knew Tamerlan Tsarnaev only because they went to the same gym when he stayed in Boston, he added.
http://rt.com/usa/ibragim-todashev-fbi-attack-659/
The FBI was after Todashev straight away:
“In Massachusetts, meanwhile, a resident of the two-unit house on Gordon Street in Allston where Todashev once lived said FBI agents came looking for him three days after Tsarnaev died in an April 19 shoot-out with police in Watertown.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/05/22/fbi-agent-shoot-and-kills-orlando-man-with-ties-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev/RsCv0rrcKWPQx5e9KFJEWL/story.html
wow thats three residences in the Boston area – that Maryland zip on that gym waiver, the gym owner says he lived near that boat – and now Gordon Street.
and yes I do recall reading the FBI was down in Florida poking around about him a week later…
In the interview with Todashev’s wife that I posted somewhere down the thread, she said that all of them – all the Chechens in the community in Florida – were interviewed right after the bombing. She wasn’t, because she was in Russia at the time – but she was stopped at the airport when she arrived back on May 1st.
She also said that during the previous interviews FBI never asked Ibragim about the Waltham murders – that they only talked about Tamerlan and the contact between them.
Right. Can somebody (Coach?) please write down the known areas/ addresses and possible years of occupation in those addresses? I’m good with this – I can trace people but I need a starting point. I did it with DM & traced his entire family history in different states over a 10 y period. I got the lot. Lets find out exactly where IT was fliting between – I feel he is crucial to the whole event. Otherwise, he’d still be alive.
From the one Prosecution’s recently filed documents we’ve seen posted online that looks unquestionably logical to me: (see page 6) This is “Gov’ts Opposition to Tsarnaev’s Motion to Vacate SAMS” filed October 21.
Tsarnaev’s desire to inspire others to commits acts of
terrorism is evident in the message he wrote in pen on the
inside of the boat where he took refuge after his own ability to
commit terrorist acts was exhausted. He wrote: The U.S.
government is killing our innocent civilians but most of you
already know that. As a M[uslim] I can’t stand to see such evil
go unpunished, we Muslims are one body, you hurt one you hurt us all . . . [T]he ummah [i.e. the Muslim people] is beginning to
rise]. . . . Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel
of your gun and see heaven, now how can you compete with that. We are promised victory and we will surely get it.” This was a clarion call to radical militants to follow in his wake.
Tsarnaev’s self-evident goal in writing these words was to
motivate others to commit acts of the same or similar nature,
putting the American people at constant risk.” (end of excerpt)
EDIT: You know, I just deleted what I wrote because this section seems so silly. “putting the American people at constant risk”–constant risk?? come on–ridiculous.
“Know you are fighting men, etc.” <—I said earlier, a really bad, awkward translation, but now I'm thinking SNL,
IDK–guess I agree with Saunders, or else the Prosecution team has some really poor writers, who like to imbibe heavily as dawn draws near.
The defense must know something is wrong with the Todashev file – It might be important to have this information later if facing the DP – but, what if they have talked to Todashev’s wife and know there is something else in that file – something that destroy the FBI’s credibility?
I was thinking the exact same thing. What ever is in that file is gold – whether it could be used in a death penalty submission or not. And at the end of the day it’s pretty damn obvious that they don’t want to hand it over to the defense at any costs. So the question is why? They clearly believe they have enough evidence to convict and seek DP if that is what holder chooses – so whats the issue with just handing the file over?
I wrote downthread during BBs “therapy” that Mr. Todashev might in fact know much more than just about the BMB or the Waltham murders, and that may be the actual reason he was shot dead.
He just had to go down. He knew too much.
The cell? We heard the other day (down thread) from the gym owner – that Todashev lived somewhere near or around the house with the boat. I have read they also had friends on the Watertown – Boylston Ave – in the same neighborhood. Something percolating.
Someone I spoke to on twitter the other day mentioned friends near the shootout on Spruce too. She’s very reliable. i’ll get back to her for some more details. Everything else she has said has turned out kosher, although I have no idea if she has names or anything THAT detailed.
Sebastian A. Freddura
Yep. That’s the guy.
There was an article about that friend at Boylston Ave – he was a rapper or a hiphop artist or something – he was talking about Tamerlan coming to his house, smoking weed and praying in his garden. He also said that he was afraid DT would come to his house to hide.
Troy Crossley……
The issue is a few things.
1. They want as few people as possible to see what’s in it.
2. If they don’t hand it over, it becomes even more mysterious and precious.
3. They want the defense to have as little time as possible picking over it.
4. They are dragging it out as every day Dzhokhar gets weaker and weaker. More and more mentally disturbed. And the defense is only allowed to talk with him about the case, not the way he is feeling, not his fears, not his hopes, not how his family is, none of the stuff he really needs to express.
Missie and Baby B – can I converse with you on email?
This is an old article but it kind of makes the case for TT being an FBI informant through the Waltham murders. Quite interesting and I know you have all been discussing that possibility lately.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/12/tsar-j12.html
Missie/BB please look over my draft on the blog. Can you guys fix it better from draft to publish? Thanks
I’ll do it you like Missy. I’m a bit out of the loop with the goings on here at the mo. Still catching up!
BB: please do so if that is what you meant in your post? What about Mrs. P?
All done. I spell checked (Coach you are a lousy speller!) and adjusted all the spacing and paragraphs correctly etc. For some reason I couldn’t preview it, so had to publish it and go back and forth between the edited version to see what it looked like! It’s ready to publish anyhow, but I reverted it to draft and emailed it to Emma for a proper review. She spots mistakes that we dont! I’ll move it over to the website too when I have 20 mins.
What did you think of the content? Did you come up with any you want to add?
Um, it was pretty extensive! And you asked the question of other commenters too – I thought it was excellent!
This just has to be posted here. My god.
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-13-year-old
Police got away with it in D.C. so let’s get the little bugger before he grows up and has real ones. Over reactionary police. They are a danger and they are not going to be stopped. That’s 2 now. There will be even more copycats. Be careful.It makes it very easy to off someone now.
Scary times…
I’m sure there is no love lost between U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz and a criminal defense lawyer such as Martin Weinberg, so I think his statement must be tempered with that knowledge. However, since I like how he closed out today’s 8 minute podcast (that Patsysvodka posted links to) in such a pointed manner, I transcribed and include it here: (this is his commentary on the differences in Discovery between State v. Federal courts.)
“… the Brady v. Maryland (U.S.) Supreme Court precedent
dates back to 1960s—it is at the epicenter of all major discovery disputes, and to diminish the Tsarnav defense team’s ability to defend him in this gravely important case with the most profound stakes of death, of life….is surprising to me. If I were the U.S. Attorney (Ortiz), I would presume that I had a strong case, that the Agencies (FBI) had identified the right person. I would do everything possible to extinguish discovery disputes rather than require them to be litigated before a federal judge (O’Toole) on an ongoing basis.”
The inference is pretty strong here….although he states nothing directly, other than how he might act under the circumstances. Here’s a brief background on Mr. Weinberg–lifted from his website, of course.
Martin G. Weinberg, a nationally prominent criminal defense lawyer based in Boston, is ranked among the nation’s best litigators and appellate advocates by many within the legal community. A 1971 Harvard Law School graduate, he has been recognized repeatedly for his accomplishments as a trial and appellate attorney, educator and legal expert. For 26 consecutive years, he has been selected by his peers as one of the Best Lawyers in America® — best criminal and white collar defense lawyer. Weinberg was named One of the Top 10 Lawyers in Massachusetts in 2011. He has represented accused defendants in over 20 federal district courts, eight U.S. Courts of Appeal, and in the U.S. Supreme Court, where he successfully argued the landmark Fourth Amendment case of United States v. Chadwick. He is the former director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. Read ‘Lawyer of the Year’ interview.
(Here’s PV’s link) linkhttp://justice4dzhokhar.tumblr.com/post/64890184902/podcast-martin-weinberg-on-discovery-feud-in-tsarnaev
(Here’s the 8 minute podcast, in case no one has posted below, sorry if a duplicate)
http://masslawyersweekly.com/the-docket-blog/2013/10/23/martin-weinberg-on-discovery-feud-in-tsarnaev/
His statement is awesome. He is challenging her right there where she has a soft point.
We know by this that he is not a maverick in any sense of the word. I would still prefer Dee Wampler of Springfield MO as he is known as a man of integrity. His book for the layman on criminal law is excellent in knowing your rights. Weinberg is a player. BUt never forget even when they clash swords, they are all in bed together in the good ol boys club.Including the judge.
Very cool – exactly what we have been saying – though not as eloquently.
Interesting:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/23/boston-marathon-suspect-linked-triple-murder
.The filing is the prosecutors’ attempt to block Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
from getting certain information from authorities, including
investigative documents associated with the Waltham killings.
“The
government has already disclosed to Tsarnaev that, according to
Todashev, Tamerlan Tsarnaev participated in the Waltham triple
homicide,” prosecutors wrote.
According to prosecutors, the investigation into the 2011 murders is reason not to allow Dzhokhar Tsarnaev access to documents.
Pity that Todashev’s not around to confirm all this.
Everyone knows the FBI killed him while questioning him and there is no protest at this behavior. Miriam Carey’s murder has died down – no pun intended – and now this 13 year old in Santa Rosa is murdered. I had a friend whose son was murdered in the Post Office in Santa Rosa by an over reactive cop. They started a lawsuit over it. His son had a history of mental problems but no gun.
Sure worth a read – they are also citing Allthingsforum:
http://my.firedoglake.com/lauraw/2013/10/23/government-responds-to-defense-motions-in-the-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-case/
“The prosecution’s opposition to the defense’s motion to lift the restrictions does not explain directly why the government waited until Aug. 27 to impose the SAMs, more than four months after Tsarnaev’s arrest and his arrival at the Devens medical facility. However, the Inspire magazine and Rolling Stone publications appear to have triggered some concern within the government.”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2013/10/tsarnaev-jail-restrictions-defended-175644.html
The news are focusing in the triple murder. Ortiz knew this was going to be public and is now profiting from the media charging the Americans emotionally against the brothers with the “he killed his best friend”-thing.
But all we know until know is that they got a “confession” from someone before they killed them. Some articles mention DNA, but what is concrete is that the ‘investigators’ got a confession from IT in that conditions we know…
and of course it wasnt recorded – so we are to take their word on it again…..
See the top of the thread….
just occurred to me: (not urgent, but worth knowing – don’t wanna jam anyone up) i assume you know about the 3rd scene at the marathon, but i don’t recall any mention here…
injuries at exeter & newbury. at stephanie’s, i think address is 180.
Where can we find the links ?
ottomh, joe andruzzi – 89? exeter. this one is odd bc these women are in doorway of forum, and this is way past site 1. pic and vid here:
http://deadspin.com/former-patriots-guard-joe-andruzzi-helped-rescue-explos-473063870
girl by bike – newbury&exeter
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cK9EvgnldJQ/UW2PriF31KI/AAAAAAAAC7o/NTVV5yRtREg/s1600/Boston+Marathon+Bombing+29.jpg
i shall continue 2moro
Thanks.
sure.
diff. laptop today, so i can’t get to my pics. will thumbs do for now? all from lrf.com, “the weird third site at the junction” thread. all pics are sourced there. if you like, i will pull them all together for you.
also, in cc/ind shark eyes ortiz claims the bros were at shell at 12:15
I see all of this as them monopolising on the situation again. no one is suggesting DT was responsible, however with it in the news like this the public draw connections sub consciously anyway. Cementing guilt when there is none.
Yes. Same as bringing his sister up for drug charges. Bad family resonances.
Of travel plans…Dzh.T was reportedly about to travel to see his parents later that week. Similarly, Todashev was also due to travel, very close to the day he was killed. His father reported that he cancelled his ticket to accommodate the FBI ‘interview’, but intended to travel very soon after instead.
I’m looking at the pic of DT with his backpack in the Dave Lindorff’s article above this comment section – the still from the surveillance footage. How large could a bomb inside of that bag be – max? The lower part of the backpack seems to be folded double – it looks almost empty…
Hi, Mrs Peel. Yes, folded double and open…
Hey Renny! THe open bit might be just a pocket though – I’m staring at an open front pocket on my rucksack just now.
Yes, it looks like the front pocket is open, but there seems to be an opening in the zip as well – or it maybe the folded part, IDK. What do you think?
Where exactly? On top? Side? Will download your pic and have a look. Am without Internet at home, so I won’t get back to you for the next 10 hours or so.
On the side of the backpack. I tried to clean up the pic as much as I could, but it’s just not very clear. There’s this black “thing” coming from the top of the pack down this side – and then there’s the thinner black line, which I think is the zip, coming down on the side as well, and there’s suddenly a blur of grey colour… so I’m not sure if there’s something sticking out of an opening – or if it’s the lower part of the pack folded.
If something’s sticking out of the bag, and the bag’s casually on one shoulder, it can easily fall out. That’s no way to transport a bomb….
I mean – I consider it a fact that there was no bomb in his backpack. The way he’s carrying it, moving around other people with no consideration whatsoever that it could go off… There’s no way it contained a pressure cooker, full of black powder and shrapnel and IDK what. It is half empty. He also doesn’t seem to be alert enough for someone carrying a bomb – he looks bored and annoyed by the obvious inability of his brother to get to the place where they’re supposed to go. He’s got the face of a kid thinking “Oh, I could be with my friends, eating pizza and having a laugh, but I’m stuck here with this moron of my brother”. IMHO.
..you said it, Renny…quite possible for a little brother… As for the ‘backpack bomb’,it was supposed to be an IED into the bargain. Not a drop of sweat on him.
I have a younger brother and I know that expression :)
And the bombs were also supposed to be “concealed inside black backpacks”, according to the indictment, and as we see, his is not black.
Mrs Peel I don;t get this gatekeeper thing at forum. The google software is so first grade simple and user friendly (why I suggested going there) that Renny can figure it out. Can he not post his own post? Is someone paranoid, or just restricting the learning of a poster. Even I figured it out as a newbie and I am not sophisticated at all. I could walk Renny through it here. What’s the problem?
I see it Renny, although i’ve never noticed it at all! Do you mean the creamy coloured rectangular object that looks like it’s poking out the side?
It’s on the side where the zip comes down from the top, then it suddenly disappears as if there was a hole. There seems to be something poking out.
I’m not sure what colour is the back side of the backpack supposed to be? Is it grey?
Oh, hadn’t seen the pic you included until now! Will have a look…
You are probably right. But when you get into the area of interpretation your argument in court gets torn to shreds.
I’m not sure if anyone else noticed this – but in the Channel 4 report where Mama T played part of the recording of her conversation with DT from prison, Dad T says something in the sense of “we were expecting you on the 18th, but you never came” and the reporter remarks “Yes, Jahar was supposed to travel home to Russia on the 18th of April, but by the time he was a suspect” (or something similar). At that time I thought the reporter just misunderstood and Dad T meant the 18th of May… as DT would have been out of the country by the time their pictures were shown on TV on Thursday…
IMO, another revealing remark seems odd for Anzor to say – and that is in reference to Tamerlan – “he was supposed to get caught.” As I suggested to Indi – that is a remark that deserves special attention considering it comes from a family that has spook connections.
Coach. BabyB was anxious to get a post up about the lack of blood. I’ve done a quick article which is a couple of photos, and mainly quotes from your good self, all attributed of course. (Dead simple – ‘Blood on their hands ?’ – not at the Shell, not at the ATM, not even on Tamerlan’s white hat. So who killed Collier ?) However, I have no wish to invade your territory or to claim credit for your discovery – it’s just about getting it out there.
If you wish to post on that topic yourself, please let me know, and I will make sure that I don’t post mine. Or, if you’d rather that something was up there, even temporarily, I’d be happy to post and take it down when you’re ready.
That said, I have no idea how to upload anything to the site. Do I have to be invited ?
Please go ahead and post your thoughts S…What I am doing is in a different context – much shorter to the point – covers over a dozen of these kinds of anomalies in the narrative. Invites readers and commenters to participate…..
It would be entirely appropriate to write up a much more stout piece as you have in mind.
Thanks. It’s brief and to the point.
It’s up S
Yes, you do, BB, please send him invite, thanks!
I did invite him! I’ll send him another.
I do not believe Saunders that you do not have full access to the forum site. WTF is going on?
I don’t know WTF is going on with that. I am still trying to sort it, and will keep trying.
Then let me tell you. One person is a Type A super controlling person who doesn’t want anyone else to have control. She’s a fuggin fascist.
I think what he meant was “they were supposed to catch him, not kill him”. Because there was no reason to kill him, once he was unarmed and giving himself up. Even if he was armed they could have shot him in his legs, etc. With Anzor, it’s harder to get the meaning, because he always speaks Russian, so we depend on the translation to carry on the message. And as a translator I can tell you that sometimes it’s really hard to get the message behind the words.
But in that Channel 4 report he also says something like: “the kid doesn’t understand what’s happened, I do understand, but I just…” and then he just throws his arms up and continues “We’re in shock, because justice has vanished”. So Anzor understands what has happened…
I will say the same thing I said to Indie – 99.9999% of us would have meant exactly that – “in a America you are innocent until proven guilty” blah blah blah —–
But this is a family with spook connections – they parse their words carefully – thier meanings are exact – its their training….I understood something of this as an insurance investigator many lives ago.
Ruslan’s word are packed with meaning – as are Anzor’s – I am not ready to dismiss it as typical parental mourning and regret.
Podstava!
Ok C, if I am following You, You mean Anzor knew that a drill was going on and that TT was taking the role of the ‘bad guy’. The police should have caught him, but not killed him. Is that what You mean?
If the father knew, why in the world would he not say it out loud now? Would he be speaking in codes to protect DT?
Like Renny says above – he seems to get right up to it – and throws his hands up –
“the kid doesn’t understand what’s happened, I do understand, but I just…” and then he just throws his arms up and continues “We’re in shock, because justice has vanished”. So Anzor understands what has happened…
IDK – I just sense something in this – it rattles around in my thinking and that means something is off. So I sit with it.
I see. Yep, I am with You, I also think Anzor is pretty much sure it was all a setup-thing – just as the aunt thinks, the mother, Todashev’s russian girlfriend, his ex-wife, his father… What is the next step? Can we maybe dive further in this agent hypothesis and make an article on that?
there has been a lot written on it already – and it gets into a lot of speculation and guess work – I think we get to it working the direction – I was just spoke with Renny about – come at it from what if any connection there might be between the two fathers, the familys, Ruslan and Todashevs father – – there is quite a bit on the Russian side of things – Izevestia and others are very much convinved the CIA/FBI connections etc., –
gotta run right now
Do you have this one, Coach ? I know you probably do, but it’s claimed that there’s specific mention (with regard to teh Collier shooting) of a black male suspect, 120lb, with a cowboy hat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1KkgeGeR5pQ
yes – it was related to a domestic incident – there was quite a bit of overlap that night – a fire, a gang fight among several others
I do remember this, but not the exact dates. I understood that he was due to go, but associated it with college terms. Looks very different now, eh ?
Yes it does.
Then there’s the question of travel expenses. I gather that Dzh.T was fairly skint: monies owing to the university, registered phone account recently cut off due to failure to pay….How does he afford to get halfway across the world ? He’s not your averageTrust-Fund Kid.
Yes, I was thinking about it. I’m not sure what the financial situation of the parents is, as there is no information regarding the occupation of Dad Anzor, other than that he worked as a car mechanic back in Kyrgyzstan and also after moving to the US. So, no idea if they were supposed to fund it?
Mom T also talked about Dzh.T sorting out visa – as a US citizen he needed visa to go to Russia. Apparently Dzh.T said to her “Visa, it’s not a problem, Mama. We’re already taking care of it.”
Interesting.
Just posting the vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMus3odyRw
The part concerning his travelling starts at about 5 min mark. The face Momma T makes when she’s talking about visa – she’s definitely trying to say something without saying it.
I agree he probably meant May 18th – as it was reported somewhere that Tamerlan was taking DzhT back to school the night of the 18th. He probably had a month of school and then break.
Now here is something –
Todashev was supposed to leave on or around the 25th of May – and if I am not mistaken he had pushed his plans back one time already due to the questioning? (help me out here) – but regardless – its interesting they are both going home at roughly the same time.
I recall somewhere else – there is a likely connection between families – between Dads.. I’ll dig for it – but if anyone has any info on that. It was something along the lines that Todashev’s dad was rewarded for his loyalty and obtained a position of importance – he and Anzor knew each other because of proximity – IDK ? Again help me out here.
Yep, that’s what I thought, the school term doesn’t end in April. And the 18th was Thursday, I’ve read somewhere that DT was still in school that day.
The story with Todashev was: he was supposed to fly home on the 24th of May, but the FBI asked him if he can postpone it, because they would like to question him “one last time”. Although he had a ticket booked, he decided to stay.
I’ve never heard about the connection between the fathers, but I will look into it.
It’s actually weird that they were supposed to fly around the same date. There might be something to it…
I heard that Wednesday Dzh.T was at the college gym – or at least his card was swiped…
If he had done it he could have decided to look and act the same as always. Or he could have taken his chance and run. Since after reading all the LACK of evidence I believe he was quickly framed to protect egos and images.
..and as we know, when it comes to protecting images and egos, it’s no holds barred. A good definition of Podstava.
If you know then why are you complicit?
AB I’m having difficulty in following you this morning. I’m trying but failing.
If you know your strengths are not being enabled but are being weakened by controlling what you write, how you write it, how you design it, etc and let it continue, that makes you complicit with your own self-sabotaging. You need to ask yourself why you would choose to do this. You should already know precisely how to post your own blog post the way you want it posted without anyone else’s interference. When people write on my blogs I trust them. That’s why I want them to contribute. That’s why I immediately make them admins. They then have all the options I have including the ability to wipe the whole thing into deletion. This started when the trolls came and they weren’t handled correctly. They came over to some of my blogs to fug with me and I warned them once, told them that they would only get one warning before I blacklisted them. They tried me out and I blacklisted them. You can’t do this on www. When you blacklist someone you can also choose to do it retroactively so that all their past ones go bye bye also. That’s what I do. I won’t tolerate it.
How is blacklisting done ?
On disqus you go to your administrative panel which is an option on the upper right. On the right side menu you will see blacklisting/whitelisting so you open that and follow what it says about the person. This is for your own blog or if you have admin status on someone else’s blog. Someone that devils you on disqus at the blog which drops in your email box, kill them.
That was also the night he went to the party.
Certainly Todashev’s Dad is some sort of government official….and knows not to take it from the FBI.
S: Found your article on the bros. Shell photos on your blog and posted it (as a complete file as I did with “Railings”) on http://www.Allthingsforum1.blogspot.com
Also tried to send you a message on your blog, but couldn’t get through–have you been able to swap emails with Renny yet?
He works for the mayor of Grozny, capital of Chechnya. Some kind of local administration post.
The Todashevs fled Chechnya during the Chechnyan war in 1994 and moved to somewhere in Russia (Saratov region?). They returned back to Chechnya 5 or 6 years ago (Ibragim finished his studies at the University in Grozny). After finishing his studies he left for US in 2008.
Tsarnaevs are a more complicated story. Anzor and his siblings grew up in Kyrgyzstan. Momma T lived in Dagestan where they met (I think) and I think by 1994 they were still living in Dagestan (Dzh.T was born there) and then moved to Kyrgyzstan. And in 2001 back to Dagestan, 2002 to the US.
I can’t see any overlap when the Tsarnaevs Dad and Todashev’s Dad could have met.
God I wish I could find this piece – it linked them by way of something to do with organized crime – Anzor new somebody(s) in the crime family and Todashevs dad was cleaning up the town – something along these lines – not that i have finished writing a bit – I will look some more.
Do you remember if it was supposed to be after Anzor went back to Russia in 2011 or before they left for US – before 2002?
From the frying pan into the fire then.
Another point in the light of Coach’s already-legendary flash of insight. What’s the one thing that would really get TT noticed at the Shell ?
We can see clearly that Dzh.T has no blood on his clothes at either the Shell or the ATM. Does he really need his big brother to come into the Shell with him ?……..thought not. But neither is there any particular reason for TT to stay in the car. If he’d had blood on his clothes, it would have been a VERY different matter.
Good point. And TT still goes into the Shell with all the blood on his clothes and after the carjacked victim had just escaped… he was probably just too thirsty :) ….it’s just so obvious that they’re not alarmed or in any hurry at the Shell… I wonder if there’s any surveillance video or pics from outside. You know, showing the cars that are there – gas stations usually have those, right?
From the shot we have, you can see the back of somebody just outside the door. They must have seen the brothers go in, or go out. They must have also witnessed Danny’s desperate escape. yet this person is looking casual……not going after the brothers, not frenetically calling for 911, not telling the cashier that something’s wrong….
I know, Saunders. I have that pic as well. It’s all ridiculous. There’s obviously no carjacking victim escaping… at least noone at this Shell is aware of any – not the brothers, not the guy standing outside… also if there was someone else at the Shell and you were carjacked, wouldn’t you just run out of the car and scream for help? So that the clerk could call police straight away – or the other people at Shell? No, he just silently disappears and the bros continue with their purchase as if nothing happened…
What I was thinking was – they usually have these monitors at the till where the clerk can actually see the people that are refuelling their cars – so they can see if someone is trying to run away without paying for the gas. So, if the clerk saw a guy with a gun and another guy desperately trying to escape out of the car…he would have called 911 straight away. Especially at midnight time – I’m sure anyone working night shifts at gas stations is alert to any kind of trouble makers.
Good point there, Renny. Yet again, we ask ‘Where’s the surveillance ?’ You’re right about being on alert. I used to work at a 24hr service station on the motorway: there was all sorts of kit and procedures in place.
Did they inadvertently wipe it?
…..as in ‘an unfortunate bureaucratic oversight’…?…..from which ‘lessons have been learned’….?
Good morning Saunders – thankyou – but your follow through is as important. TT looks out and about on a crisp spring evening I would say…
Indeed he does. So how the ****** do I post it onto the site ?
yes – I havent a clue on the new one. Get it worked up and wait for Missie or BB to hand it off too. Thats what I do.
How do I do it ?
I just posted regarding travel expenses….what do you reckon ?
I am still getting up to speed for the day – and I am having trouble figuring what you mean? I am assuming you are communicating with BB by email – send it to her when your done and she will edit it and post it.
That’s my best bet, I think. WRT travel expenses, how was Dzh.T (not exactly the Trust-Fund Kid) going to get halfway across the world ?
You are correct. But all that you are saying is meaningless in court.Useless.
Agreed, but part of what you advocate is the airing of questions and comments in an already confused narrative. Questions raised can give rise to more questions…
What is wrong with more and more questions. That is the way people learn. IF this boy dies can’t some people learn from this event so as to carry that learning on to the next event. Because that next event is coming even if you can’t see it now. I put everything I knew into that SPECTACLE of a scandal on Kristen Stewart’s “cheating” event last summer. I know how these things work. Why did missy not just go to my site and read all the blog posts on it to see how the fug to do it. You want diversity, you want so much diversity that no one will know anything for sure. Except that there is a major LACK of evidence to support what the govt and LE did and what that really means.
Absolutely nothing wrong with mre and more questions: that was my point. It was only through relentless questioning that the innocent people convicted of the Birmingham and Guildford bombings were eventually exonerated. Of course court proceedings can be meaningless: the point is to give the appearance of kosher proceedings, the better to conceal what’s really going on, and the identities of those egos that you mention. I am aware that practically everything I may say here would be useless in court, but as you stated, there’s a much bigger picture here, that will endure longer than we will. I’m not significant in the big picture, but I’d rather do something than do nothing. I’m trying.
Then why are you willing to let someone cripple your efforts. She pushes you, BB, and coach to post more, opens a second needless site that drains the energy away from this one.
I will give serious thought to your question.
Hi folks, just found another ‘document’ filled yesterday. It is a motion of the prosecutors asking the Court to deny Tsarnaev’s Motion to Compel Production.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/177955567/Memo-to-112-Motion-to-Compel-Discovery-Document-129-10212013
I have the same doubt we all have with these last documents… are they kosher? Is there a way to check it out?
Oh! Excellent Indi! I have been looking for that and couldn’t find it anywhere. I’ll add it into the documents folder.
BB, we are a little skeptical regarding the veracity of these docs… take a look here:
http://www.scribd.com/josefina8romano
All three docs can not be find elsewhere in the web. Only there. There are misspellings… it’s a little weird, isn’t it?
Yes – I’ve been trying to catch up. I read that you were questioning down thread. I haven’t had chance to look them over at all yet, but I trust what you all were saying. Thing is – do scribed go in for unofficial stuff? They seem to only put up docs that are ‘kosher’. However, even if they are from an official source – what the hell does that say about the case?
Create an account on PACER and you’ll have access to any publicly available filings.
Kosher or not, utterly vile and amoral to put the full names of very young children in there without any form of redaction!
Yes Em, there was no reason whatsoever to do that…
If the documents are real, that is not a good thing. It makes me sick just to think of Mrs. Ortiz.
Emptywheel thinks they are for real…
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/10/22/carmen-ortiz-blows-off-dzhokhar-tsarneavs-request-on-his-own-involvement-in-waltham/
Gotta love the comments…
If emptywheel thinks they are real they probably are.If they are real then children’s names would go in them.
The media is attacking again in their prosecution role… they say that DNA evidence apparently linked Todashev to the crime. The title of the article is: “Dead Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev DID butcher friend and two others by slitting their throats after ‘drug deal gone wrong’ and dumped marijuana on bodies”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2472892/Boston-bomber-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-killed-friend-slitting-throats.html
Just a thought….the brothers were to play the ‘bad guys’ at the drill, as part of a wider training exercise. There were other ‘bad guys’ in the drill, simulating a terrorist cell. Many Northeastern university students participated, it was a big exercise, so no need for alarm.
Advance knowledge of the drill was too widespread. Whoever infiltrated and hijacked the drill had some agenda concerning the Caucasus. The Caspian energy reserves are big business, and a big deal in geopolitics. Somebody has an interest in keeping the Chechnyan ‘problem’ on the boil.
It was important that the brothers are/were Chechen. Chechen terror M.O. is the double bomb.
Part of the training exercise was to be the ‘capture’ in Watertown. Other Russian-speakers (perhaps more Chechens) were to take part in this. The brothers had no need to get out of Dodge, even after the drill had been hijacked and was for real. (well Dzhokhar at least). The ‘look only for these men’ was to be part of it, to gauge how the public would react, and to see what public info would be worth, in the event of a real attack. The brothers were aware that this would happen.
It went live. Boston FBI were taken by surprise, but after spending a couple of days wondering what to do, and trying to work it out, they concluded (or were tipped off) that the brothers had gone rogue. They know that TT is on their radar. So, the original plan for the exercise was kept, so as not to alert the brothers: except that now the 2nd part of the training exercise was for real. It was the best way to capture them.
Once the drill was admitted to, there was claims that ‘the terrorists got there first’. Although this appeared to refer to weeks/months, it could also have meant that the drill was scheduled for (say) 10 minutes later, at 3PM. The place was swarming with people with big black backpacks. The hijack pre-empted the drill by 10 minutes.
I can consider this scenario – and what of Momma T’s role?
It was never meant to come out that the Tsarnaev family were well-known to the FBI. Mama T knew nothing of the drill, only what she saw and heard in the media. Once the FBI reckoned that they did not know who the brothers were, she knew somebody was trying to work a flanker – though the details are anybody’s guess. She knew they were in danger, and wasn’t prepared to just take it.
Hmmm – working this through the mind map
..she disliked the spooks from the outset: they were apparently on TT’s back relentlessly. Maybe she knew what effect it was having, seeing it close up for several years. He may have been very reluctant to be part of what the spooks were up to. The family had been granted political asylum in the US: they know about spookery. Mama T wasn’t having it.
Would explain why Uncle Ruslan disliked Mama T. She would not let her children become “successful people” like him.
Part of it, perhaps. There’s trouble of some sort in most families when it comes to in-laws. People are sometimes treated as black sheep for no good reason. It’s easier to have a figure to blame for everything. We don’t and can’t know what any of that’s about: could be a million things.
This is from an AP interview with Anzor (DAD) “”””emphasis mine”””” What do you suppose that means?
I learned about the incident from TV. My
opinion is: the special services have framed my children, because they are
practicing Muslims. Why did they kill Tamerlan?
“””He was supposed to be caught alive.””””
The younger is on the run now. He was a sophomore at a medical school in the
U.S. We expected him to come home for vacation. Now I don’t know what’s going
to happen. Tell you once again: I believe special services have framed my
children.
This is another from AP:
Mr Tsarnaev recently spoke to his elder son, Tamerlan [Suspect
#1], telling him that he should take care of his younger brother. Speaking of
the Boston marathon bombing he told his son
“”””“Ok, Thanks to Allah
you were not close to there and did not suffer.””””
“I remember I even asked “Who could do something like that?”
“We just talked. I asked him about our Dzhokhar [Suspect #2],
how was he. I told him, he should help him out and keep an eye on him, so that
he studies well. I told him ‘You left school, got married too early, but the
kid should finish [his ducation]’.Because this is life – those who don’t study
work a lot and work hard. That’s why I was telling them study”.
This is a close religous family. These boys shared everything with their parents – I think that may have been part of Ruslan’s anger at them – couldnt keep secrets?
“””He was supposed to be caught alive.””””
That is a revealing thing for his father to say….
C, I dunno… I don’t think Dad Anzor knew about it. He probably said that meaning: “You don’t kill suspects. You catch them alive.”
You, me, and 99% of the rest of the population to be sure
But – a spook family? IDK for sure either – but a spook family knows the value of parsing thier words carefully – or covering up what they know. Every bit of what they say – just like Ruslan – is loaded with meaning.
Interesting take by Mr. Graham Fuller (from an Al-monitor interview):
“According to Fuller, the suspects’ mother Zubeidat Tsarnaeva was not an
ethnic Chechen herself, but Dagestani, and so the family spoke the couple’s
common language Russian, not Chechen, at home. “People who lose their native
language (identity) sometimes are more fanatic in some respects,” he observed.”
Both him and Ruslan are pushing this notion that it was Mama T’s fault and influence that made poor Tamerlan so fanatic. Also, Ruslan, apparently, tried to encourage Tamerlan to move to Kazakhstan in 2008 when he dropped out of school. Tamerlan refused.
Interesting also that Fuller also declared that it was ‘absurd’ that there was any CIA connection with the fact that Ruslan had married his daughter, lived in his house, which was also the registered business address of that Congress of Chechens (of whatever the real title was) that was CIA-backed, and with which himself and Ruslan were significantly involved.
I think it’s true that Mrs.T is not an ethinc Chechen, but of the Avar ethnic group.
2008 is 5 years ago: Mrs.T said specifically that the spooks were monitoring Tamerlan ‘for five years’. Tamerlan was 21 in 2008, the age (I think…) that you’re officially an adult in the US. (According to the court documents for Dzh.T, he is still classed as a juvenile at 19.)
I looked into Ruslan quite extensively, all his work history and everything – the whole story is obvious, especially if you know Operation Gladio B and Mr.Fuller’s involvement with Iran Contra – Mr. Fuller is the “father” of the idea to use islamist religious extremism as a weapon against Russia in order to get hold of the oil and mineral wealth in Central Asia. If you consider that Ruslan graduated from Law School in Kyrgyzstan in 1994 and right after that moved to US where he set up the Congress of Chechen International Organizations and married the daughter of Graham Fuller. He started working straight away for USAID. He’s not just an ordinary Chechen fleeing to US – he was probably recruited by CIA while still at the Law School in Kyrgyzstan.
In that Al-monitor interview Mr. Fuller is trying to completely downplay Ruslan’s usefulness as a CIA operative. I would call this damage control:
“Like all Chechens, Ruslan was very concerned about his native land, but I
saw no particular involvement in politics, [although] he did try to contact other Chechens around,” Fuller continued. “He also felt homesick and eventually went back to Central Asia after the divorce. His English was shaky. (We always spoke Russian together).”
“I doubt [Ruslan] even had much to say of intelligence value other than
talking about his own family’s sad tale of deportation from Chechnya by Stalin
to Central Asia,” Fuller said. “Every Chechen family has such stories.”
I wonder who first got down to Maryland to set up camp outside his house ? How did they know where to go ?
I know that many people change their surnames upon immigration, and that there’s often a similarity between the new and the old. But how exactly would reporters have made such a connection ?
I actually thought he had called the media himself – to make his “public announcement”. IDK. I’m not sure if he changed his surname before marrying Ms. Fuller or after. I think I saw some documents, either their marriage or divorce records, where his old surname was used.
According to Izvestia way way back (sp) Momma T was calling everyone and anyone that night to try to save the brothers. She reportedly said she called Ruslan first.
Yes, I think Ruslan especially disliked the close relationship of Tamerlan and Mama T. As she said in the first interviews: “he used to call me, he used to tell me everything, I would be the first one to know”. Ruslan described her as “overbearing and meddlesome in her children’s lives in a dangerous way”.
That would make TT useless as a CIA operative, if he was telling everything to his Mom.
And I think Dad Anzor knows more than we think, he’s just more private and he knows how dangerous this game is. Mama T is too emotional – that’s why she spits out everything.
…’couldn’t keep secrets’… or put another way, ‘too loyal to each other’.
I remember this piece.
I recall (I think) also that Mr.T was/is not particularly religious. As to the brothers saying that they were nowhere near the marathon – kids say such things all the time so that parents won’t worry, and the pattern can continue for decades.
They were granted political asylum? I didn’t know that. Now that is interesting.That would maybe have put them on a fast track for immigration?Did CIA help with that?
No idea. Dzh.T had to wait 10 years for his passport.
So they didn’t want little brother traveling, did they.
I don’t know how it works. The refugees I know over here have to wait several years for passports. They have temporary but internationally-recognised travel documents, with restrictions. These are not valid for where the people have come from: land, sea, or airspace. But as they don’t have citizenship I don’t know if they’d have the same (theoretical) protection.
She also didn’t know just how evil this govt is.
this would explain dt’s “fake story” text, and why they told no one they were at the marathon.
i recall that “terrorists got there first” statement/story. so vague or something.
“””the terrorists got there first””” was in the BG’s only story (and the only major newspaper or media outlet to issue it) it was a direct quote from someone in DHS cant recall who right this moment. it came out right after the Snowden revelations – June 9th, 10, 11th somewhere in this time frame.
The only other publications to run this story where the alternatives –
Flipped me out. It was almost like they were inviting the concpiracy theorists to an open fight. Nobody bit though – just reported almost verbatim what was printed in the BG article.
A month in advance ? A week ? 10 minutes ?
So, the carjacking was part of the plan too? They were given the car, a gun and some explosives or rather fireworks as part of the drill?…I guess it would explain why the bros stopped in the middle of the road in Watertown “throwing bombs and greanades” – that was part of the drill too. Do you think that the DT manhunt was planned as well?
No. The local police weren’t in on it – some of them even self-deployed. They believed it was all for real, which it was by that point. In the drill, Dzh.T was never meant to escape (or perhaps he was never meant to be there in the first place ). He had to stick with big brother no matter what – and found himself running for his life.
Interesting what Coach was saying about there being no blood on the brothers when they were seen at the ATM and the Shell. If they managed to change clothes and clean up (yeah right), then when ? and where ? No reports of discarded blood-soaked clothing being recovered….
our paths are converging my friend – we have to figure Momma T’s role – Every way I consider her (in on it, naive, a plant, etc., ) you cant get around she screwed up the whole thing by spilling her guts –
everything since then has been cover up to catch up…..
And now she’s gagged through fear that it could affect her surviving son’s chances of life or death. Cruel, but very effective.
I would say the fear of him suffering more than he already is. From all her correspondance, I gathered that she has a strong faith. Remember, at he very beginning, she said defiantly: ” I don’t care if you kill my son or if you kill me”. People went on to take her litterally but it is not what she meant. She was angry and hurting at Tamerlan’s death and what she was trying to say is “kill all of us if you want , but God will be the judge” or something along those lines.
I also have the feeling that those SAMs restrictions could have been imposed because she tried to abord the case with her son… It is only a speculation that came to my mind because since DT is COMPLETLY shut ot the outside world and his lawyers have to be very carefull about what they talk about during their filmed/recorded interview,(remember Lynne Stewart). I suppose his mum may have been tempted to talk about those who don’t agree with the official narrative and the only way they have to prevent this is to make DT’s condition even harshier.
well said pat – dont be a stranger.
I know the local police weren’t in on it. What I meant was – they could have found him that night, if they just used dogs to follow the blood trail from the car. Right? But someone (higher up) decided no, we would rather bring 9000 militarized police force, with tanks and I don’t know what – just to find an obviously wounded teenager, who is alone, running for his life. And we will do a door-to-door house search as well, just for a good measure…
If you go to Dave’s site, there was relatively little blood. People talked about how much they helped this and that victim and were photographed with white shirts etc and no blood, no blood on hands, no gloved hands either. To see The Act of Killing where the murderers decades later re-enact the terrible crimes they committed, the “villagers” standing in as actors now, began to feel it was real, crying, passing out, going into convulsions AND THEY HAD BEEN TOLD IT WAS A FILM!
Very interesting.
I still think it is hard to believe that TT would not have flipped out after figuring out that the drill became a real nightmare, and that he was doing the ‘bad guy’ role.
Its possible he resisted that role. He did tell the FBI that the BMB was their problem – and they knew where he lived….He could have been reassured by his handlers. And then gone about his business the next several days – until the Thursday night hammer came down.
I must say that the scene of him walking towards the officers with the weapon seems quite cinematographic. Who on earth in a sane state would do that? Was he going ‘with the plan’ by then or was he waking up and reacting to save DTs and his life?
“IF” that was him – it seems it was an existential moment. Giving himself up to live – save his brother and rely on his uncle – his handlers to pull him out of the jam.
Walking 70-80 yards as is reported with those guns trained on him – (he probably didnt know about Collier) that is a hell of a choice that someone makes with either an incredible amount of naivete or trust…
Your assumption is that the “Bombings” were REAL. Were they?
….as opposed to assuming that they weren’t…?
I’m wondering what else may have caused the singed hair seen on several people within seconds of the blasts. Any ideas ?
There’s a picture on an edition of ‘Time’ magazine showing a fireman removing a child from the scene. The child is missing a patch of hair.
Yes. IDK anymore. Yes there were explosions. Deliberate of course. But by whom?
Could have been shopped out.
I know that anything’s possible.
Your present blog post shows them afterwards. No blood. Well can’t you hear the rebuttal? The blood was shopped out. Then you explain that these are surveillance images. And so it goes. But the conversation continues. And if it continues that person is going to be involved. That person is going to talk about it in his/her life that same day. Maybe ask a friend what they think. Get feedback on the outside, interject more questions. IT WILL KEEP THE EVENT GOING, it will give legs to it, it will begin the process of contemplation in someone you don’t know, are never going to know, but who needs and wants to know how to think about this event.
“The Event is not the meaning. It is what lies inside the event that is the meaning.” – John Caputo’s The Insistence of God:A Theology of Perhaps
Now right there is have waved the flag of Caputo and someone may get it, or the next time they see or hear his name will connect, resonate with it. And this should be on disqus, so that anyone on disqus can pull up their comments, others’s comments, and retrace the thinking that they followed. You have no idea how astonishing it is to have that thread of yours unroll in time just for you. And it should be on the forum blog.
I was thinking about this – if the original “bombing drill” was hijacked by some unknown group, and they knew the full drill with the Watertown “capture” – would they try to meddle with that as well. They knew that FBI thought it was the 2 bros who had gone rogue. Let’s assume that the drill plan for Watertown was that 3 or 4 groups of the 12 people terrorist cell – that were part of the drill – would drive around Watertown in black SUVs creating havoc, throwing fireworks out of their cars – to test the LE coordination and reaction (?). The local police didn’t know about the drill, so they acted as if it was real – shooting at the suspects, trying to stop them. The FBI wanted them to capture the 2 bros, so they made it clear it was only the 2 the local police should be after. But the real rogue elements were among the other members of the 12 people – it was not the bros who hijacked the drill. And these rogue elements didn’t want the police to capture the bros – because they would tell them it wasn’t them – and they might have been able to point in the right direction. So, for these rogue elements it was essential that the bros were killed. DT was supposed to be with TT in the SUV, but TT had some suspicion so he made his lil’ bro drive the Honda instead – in case something happened, DT would have been safe. DT was supposed to wait somewhere (Laurel St.?) where they would meet up after the end of the drill. When the rogue elements caught up with TT, they found out DT was not there. They searched around Watertown until they found him – and they’re the 2 people shooting at the police at Laurel St. – while DT is the third crouching person, who has no clue what’s happening or what happened to his brother.
Scheisse… have You seen this???
http://www.scribd.com/doc/177954395/Opposition-to-Remove-SAMs-for-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-10212013
Now they changed the “boat message” again… how many times will they change it? This is infuriating.
“The U.S. government is killing our innocent civilians but most of you already know that. As a M[uslim] I can’t stand to see such evil go unpunished, we Muslims are one body, you hurt one you hurt usall . . . [T]he ummah [i.e. the Muslimpeople] is beginning to rise]. . . . Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel of your gun and see heaven, now how can you compete with that. We are promised victory and we will surely get it.”
And it’s written in pen again…
It is so ridiculous. I can’t believe they coul ever get away with this.
This doesn’t look real to me: too many departures from legalistic language, terms which are not used in other official documents. Inconsistencies in punctuation and the use of capital letters. The font looks different, and IF it’s been done on a typewriter, then the typewriter has an unusual form of lettering, as well as a recurring fault. If it’s done on a computer, why is the italic font different from the main one, and how is the typewriter-like fault explained ? If there was a particular problem with one computer, another could have been used. It just doesn’t look or read like other documents.
Then you are probably right. It isn’t official.
Regarding the letters and the font, I sometimes have a similar problem when a text document is transformed into a pdf file. Some of the letters disappear or change or words are cut in half. I actually had the same problem when reading the original criminal complaint.
So now he’s an “inspirational successful terrorist” that inspires others :) Seriously, how can they even say that… Also, shouldn’t they prosecute Boston Globe now, for promoting terrorism? I’m sure that not that many people in the US read the Inspire magazine, as they read Boston Globe. So, without Boston Globe we wouldn’t know he’s a successful terrorist and as such worth following his example…
I remember way down the thread you posted a link to a website with all those court documents – I think it was you at least. Could you have a look if these docs are there?
Renny, it is here… http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/case.html?id=2480518
But there is nothing there since August…
I found a more complete one. But still… the last documents are missing.
http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/case.html?id=2476108
I am outta here now. See You guys later.
If this has been posted here, I’m duplicating, but here is an excerpt from the prosecution’s filing on October 15, indicating the specific nature of the evidence against DT. (This is page 11 of the filing, I found the document on another site but have lost it again–jumping around on laptops.) I am assuming it is a valid document. Claims prosecution has shared “DNA, fingerprint, and ballistics” evidence linking DT and his brother to the murder of Collier. While this sounds conclusive, if it was in fact a slam-dunk, the plea deal should be a slam-dunk. I don’t know that is it–perhaps this evidence isn’t a water-tight as it sounds. I’ve already posted (on the other thread) that ballistics evidence and/or testimony is no longer always treated as “conclusive” in courts. I would have to look into DNA and fingerprint evidence as well, which I will do over the next few days.
Why are there spelling mistakes ?
Good question. That is why I included the disclaimer re: document–although I saw the entire document when I pulled this page. I also note that I could not find it elsewhere on the web.
Try here:
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/176428640
Thank you! Also, if you read the prosecution’s filing page posted, there is no mention or listing in the Fed’s most compelling, if not voluminous, evidence of DT’s bedside confession, written or otherwise, to the HVI team–the fruits of the 16hours of interrogation. Statements that were released to the defense seem to reference the boat confession..written in pen.
left handed penmanship no doubt!!!
double or single spacing?
cursive?
LOL–Are you incensed? The bedside confession–inadmissible, and sounds like perhaps the prosecution isn’t even going to try. Over on the blog, a comment was posted to BB’s latest article on Collier that noticed the MIT surveillance tapes were not mentioned as part of the “compelling” evidence either, although there were two tapes mentioned on your scanner reports that BB linked to in her earlier Collier article. (Poor Collier–such a shame that young man died in such a terrible way.)
Those vids – I recall seeing somewhere that they actually only showed 1 individual approaching the car and not two as originally stated. They were of too crap quality anyway. But for me this is the crux of the whole thing.
They decided very quickly they had their men. We were told ‘it’s them’ – the bedside confession the Collier tapes showing the TWO (not the 1) and so it went on.
Well that all fell apart and is not even worth a mention anymore. I feel they have a built a case around what they believed – why are we trusting the ‘new’ evidence when the first lot was also pitched to us a dead cert?
We had them parading the Honda around MIT weeks later trying to ‘reconstruct’ and not even charging DT with Collier’s murder for a long time? Why? When they had ballistics evidence? Do me a favour.
Catch up cover up the whole way.
We could make this like a (non-alcoholic beverage) drinking game–every time you spot what should be a piece of “compelling” evidence missing from the Prosecution’s document of October 15 listing above, take a slurp. I’ve got another one–the pressure cooker lid and pot from the detonated device the brothers pitched 20-30′ down Laurel at the brothers. (and for a bonus, the ‘dud’ pressure cooker device the brothers lobbed that supposedly did not explode–that would include the ‘ordinance’ the clean-up officers found in the street as DT tore out in the SUV.) Your turn?
if it was alcoholic we would all be passed out in an hour!
How about the crim complaint says the carjacking occurred at or around 12 midnight – but Fox News reports they have a time stamped pik of DT leaving that ATM at 11:18 pm….Your turn.
LOL–how about the details of the cell-phone conversation DT was having as he stood in front of Forum? Esp. with that precise timing in Ghenk’s statement suggesting DT was on the phone with TT and coordinating the detonation of the IED? We could go on all night at this rate.
No – we’d all be dead arced drunken stupid in under an hour.
I’ll take that as your turn. Photographic evidence of DT withdrawing money from DM’s account at the bank ATM.
Since you aren’t taking a turn, what about DNA and fingerprint evidence of the carjacking of the SUV? Where is TT’s fingerprint evidence in the SUV–who else has fingerprints in that vehicle?
Who was the women they found DNA evidence on the one bomb…..And if they found DNA evidence for one person – where is the DNA of the brothers on those bombs?
Im already getting dizzy!!!
Good one. Notice how the filing language states: “Surveillance video of the defendant’s planting a bomb at the Marathon” but NOT detonating the bomb. Also, maybe all the video shows is evidence of defendant planting a backpack at the Marathon–it’s up to the prosecution to show that the backpack was a bomb!
The prosecution is not going to have to show anything. NOTHING. Dzhokhar has been in solitary – injured and ill – for 6 months now. He is going to be in no mental shape to even consider standing trial. He will be mad by then which is what they want. The defense will plea bargain his life instead of death. He will be too damaged to stand trial. This is what they are doing to him.
Abs, You have no hope at all. I see it. It is all lost, You are looking at DT and seeing a forever wounded and destroyed life with no point of return.
You always cite LeCarre. So let me now cite Saint-Exupéry: “All grown-ups were once children… but only few of them remember it.”
I do have hope. Call me naive. But I do have it. Something changes at the moment these questions are being asked. You can’t save the world, but You can do something that it at Your reach.
The diamond we will get from this will be a recognition of who we are as a nation, but not right away and not by everyone. I was just reading Oliver Stones’s remembering Roger Ebert’s reviews of his JFK and Natural Born Killers, both of which I loved. Stone’s JFK was made with a lot of research behind it that was too dense for the critics to absorb. Stone reveres Jim Garrison who took on the US govt to indict them and was defamed, termed crazy, and pretty much ruined, although he wrote two books about it and now is seen as correct in his perception which was just too truthful during that time. “When all is lies, the truth is a weapon,” says Bane in The Dark Knight Rises.
Where is our Garrison now when we know that the govt is responsible for this framing of an innocent boy/young man. One day a film will be made of him exonerating him, but he will be dead, just like Sacco and Vanzetti are dead. And who the fug cares now that they were set up and killed to satisfy the hunger of rage against them. Here it is all over again. The Eternal Return. Nietzsche. Hope that it will change is just that: hope. A fairy tale for adults. It is good forum keeps at this just as it was good justiceforkristen kept at that scandal in the same, plodding, deliberate way, but it spoke only to a few people. What destroyed the scandal was following Nietzsche and Baudrillard. But forum and justiceforkristen did and do not want to destroy the scandal, they want to be RIGHT. People will die to be right. Nations will collapse and disintegrate just to be right. And all right is is a fuggin DISCOURSE. It is not real, truth depends on your truth, my truth, his truth, her truth as there is no TRUTH. Truth is an attribute of a DISCOURSE. That’s all it is. Meanwhile everyday Dzhokhar gets weaker and weaker. He is also probably being drugged. You know take your meds for what has been done to you. Probably strong painkillers. Drugs. So what mental shape could he possibly be in. And this is what they want. How can he take a principled stand when he is drugged. He can’t. He probably couldn’t even testify in any reasonable way. He is damned. But good god, let me work on that white hat and why the letters are on one image and not another while the boy is crumbling. None of this is going to help him altho it will help others to see the tragedy in perhaps a different perspective. Pure masturbation. The momentum has been lost for getting the right attorney to him. We will be fantastically lucky if we should find one now. All because of searching for the TRUTH which does not exist. Assange’s words will say this at the end of The Fifth Estate. This is what they fear. That each of us comes to our own truth, not the media truth, the govt truth, the official narrative truth. We are not going to win this one, but that doesn’t mean it is not crucial and important to continue fighting it. And no matter which way it goes for DT they are going to get him one way or another. If they can kill a popular president like JFK they can kill DT easily. Snowden is free and not free, the same for Assange. Emptywheel sees all these Events connected, which is why she is attaining greatness. So does Laura Poitras. And others. Lift your head out of the sand and stop believing in fairy tales.
Abs, I agree with you that nothing that we do can actually change the situation for DT. He already spent 6 months in solitary confinement, probably on strong meds and almost certainly gone mad by now.
The government will not listen to any evidence, because they’re not interested in it and they know what happened anyway. But for me, we are not fighting for DT as an individual, but for all of us – our right for due process, the principle of “innocent til proven guilty”. And the fight, at least on my part, is not against the government (as it’s not my government anyway), but rather to open other people’s eyes and make them see that they’re being deceived everyday by the media and their own governments (as this is the same everywhere, not only in America). And to make them understand that they should not trust what they’re being told, but question everything, no matter how unpleasant the truth may be. Although we might never know The Truth.
I felt frustrated many times with the efforts here, concentrating on the details that won’t change anything. But then I realized that we have to try anything and everything, because it’s the only thing that we can do at this point. Hopefully, our effort will bring some kind of change.
And I think we should never accept injustice as something that just happens all the time. If we do, where does it leave us?
This is the rationalization protesters employ. In an oppositional system of Discourse such as we have, the opposites feed on and strengthen each other. It’s like a long rope being pulled in opposite directions by a chain of people. First one chain gets pulled, then, as more people join it it gets stronger and pulls back harder, then the other end begins to get pulled and they enlist allies to pull back harder. Does this strong rope ever break in half? Of course not. To keep on in the evidence game is to strengthen them. Those that believe he is innocent are already convinced. You are after that very small, fanatic group who will never believe he is innocent and you are spending your time and strength on this that only helps them. Go to firedoglake and watch how they do it. Over 10 years they have an intellectual and dedicated following, and what they say is believed. But they also are the opposition. emptywheel knew about the NSA spying from research and an intuitive leap. What could she do about it? Nada.
Not until the revealing of the NSA documents COUPLED with suicide by Edward Snowden did the damage to NSA occur. As Baudrillard and DeLillo know, the act must be coupled with “suicide.” My acquaintance Kathy Chang(e) did not know this and burned herself on the Penn campus. It did nothing. Her ashes were swept up in 20 minutes, her burning was on TV a couple of nights, and she is forgotten. BUT what was learned from what she did was that suicide alone is not enough. Arab Spring has also taught us that as actions sprung up after the immolation. That is the only reason his burning had an impact.It could have been a non event like Kathy Chang(e).
I think you have far more evidence that Tamerlan was an asset, that he was going to a meeting that was a set up, that he was deliberately murdered than all the police stuff together that they are terrorists. And it doesn’t mean a hoot except for those of us who are already aware that our govt lies through its mask. BUT it is such a long history of planned SPECTACLES for govt purposes, that we are fighting a very entrenched system. I hate to advise anyone to see Fifth Estate but all of this is in there to be seen.
Dzhokhar’s greatest allies are on youtube and youtube is the greatest force we have. Forum should have used it to the hilt. Alas. People watch a video that is unedited, and their minds turn. People look at the images on Dave’s site, and his short text, and if they are able to be convinced, they will be convinced. No it is not the way the court system works. But the court system is in the service of the state. Before that it was in the service of the sovereign. Foucault- Discipline and Punish.
Saint-Exupery is about faith. What adults need at a time like this is “knowing” that he is innocent and a strategy for saving him. Looking through a magnifiying glass at details is not going to accomplish that. There is enough evidence now for anyone to know he didn’t do it. But there is a gap between knowing the facts and believing the facts. Many people now know he is innocent but they don’t believe he is innocent. To believe he is innocent requires one to believe their govt is lying to them, arranges or allows or both, terrible Events for their own benefit, and what court judge, lawyer of the courts, govt officials are going to believe THAT? A handful of govt whistlelowers went to Russia to bestow an honor on Edward Snowden. Only a handful. We are few. Forum doesn’t have the vision. Missy is too ego involved in a successful blog site. It will tank in a few months because it isn’t tied to the big picture, the big vision. Take a look at firedoglake. That’s the way you should be going.
..and as I remember, it was said in the Guildford and/or Birmingham cases that the possibility of police malpractice was a possibility that could not be countenanced. In the finish, the alibi document clearly marked ‘not to be diclosed to the defence’. You’re dead right – it’s about reluctance to believe that the government or judicial system is in any way fallible.
I know from justiceforkristen that an exhaustive analysis of the data has no effect on believers. This is why you have the tea party. So all that you are doing at forum has already convinced those that are willing to be convinced and a thousand more pieces of evidence against the cops or for Jahal will make no difference – and even no difference in court.
The entire court system cannot believe it is a simulacrum of justice. They are in denial about that. Same as the Soviets when Lenin came to power and began show trials. They got Mandelstam very early on. 1918 or 1919 I believe. Those judges and lawyers probably were the same, unbelieving they were just stand up cardboard figures.
If forum had had comments enabled you would have thousands of allies now. WWW has everybody and you are not in control of that site. He can erase them at any time and what if he were told to do so? If he is constantly asking for donations for the site, then he is not doing this with independent wealth.
At this point we cannot get even an aggressive lawyer. It would require a team to go up against the govt and a team is not going to do that. Jim Garrison alone was trying to do that and he could not. Their technique would be to bury you in paper filings. I don’t know what to do at this point. Maybe raise a few million dollars? God forum was just so mismanaged it infuriates me.
At least we have gotten a wave started against the govt and its lies. Youtube has taken over the innocence question and the evidence on a youtube video that is a good one, beats everything written in words and is undeniable when coupled with good text. Forum is afraid to consider the hypothesis that it was a simulation. After reading Dave’s site for 2 nights I believe it was. The images and the stories do not jive. Not at all. Where now are the follow ups of these people? Where are the backstories and how their lives have changed. Many put up donation sites and raked it in in addition to the govt pay outs. They are all wealthy beyond their wildest dreams now. This needs to be front and center and I am only one person. It sickens me that all of you could have done this in a New York Minute.
Sorry. You know I don’t mean you.
It is not about faith. It is about doing what is in Your own reach. That has nothing to do with faith. What I meant when I cited Exupery is, I don’t think that it is all lost, quite the opposite, I think it is worth bothering – just like Missie, Coach, Renny, BB, Saunders, and lot of people that read here. And I am sure You think that it is worth bothering as well, or You wouldn’t be investing Your time here.
I don’t have a problem knowing that it was all tarted up. Nor do I have a problem about knowing what is effective now and what is useless as a strategy to help Dzhokhar.
Yes – this has always been my contention. They have video of a guy putting a bag down. So what? Unless the camera is trained on that very bag until the moment of explosion – then…nothing. Even if it was, they still have to prove he knew there was a bomb in there. And then I remember: that’s what all the rest of the crap has been about. The vid of HIS specific bag ‘exploding’ does not exist…..
You know how I know that the video doesn’t exist? Because if it did, that would be the first thing they would use at the beginning of their investigation. They would not need to look at thousands of pictures. They would have taken the video – showing a person with a backpack that exploded – and they would put up a still from it on their website and on their board at the press conference – and they would have said – this is the guy we’re looking for, it was his backpack that exploded, the backpack was light grey, the guy was wearing this and that….we have him on camera – they would have done that right away on Monday or Tuesday after watching the video. But they didn’t. That means they either don’t have any video or the video they have doesn’t show anything.
I’d like to see how the prosecution does that – the bombs were in black backpacks according to the indictment – so obviously not in the backpack he planted :)
If you look on the stills from the Whiskey’s video, Dzh.T’s very lightweight backpack is actually hanging open. Also, I think it can be shown that the backpack that appears on the Blue Runner picture is innocent – at least as long as that was there it stayed, and even then, it doesn’t mean it had the bomb in it.
Huh. Is it just me or does it look like there’s something sticking out of it? Hang in there…
Renny: BB says to go to the site, fill in a contact form, and it’ll be sent to me direct from BB.
Who on earth carries a bomb in an open, unsecured bag hanging off one shoulder ?
Will do it now, thanks.
I might be getting blind, but it actually looks like there’s a shoe or a bottle sticking out of the backpack…IDK
Saunders: I’m probably really blind, I couldn’t find any contact form on the site.
I’ll see what I can do.
How did anyone get to turn the site into a bureaucracy like this?
And I’m going again, because it’s still so glaring: Surveillance video of Tamerlan Tsarnaev planting a bomb at the Finish line of the Marathon–still nothing. (I’m getting greedy with my turns.)
well geez I could grab the obvious ones too – like where was all the fire power DT supposedly unleased on those unsuspecting officers?
That is the best one.
An some photos os him at the marathon! We wanna see them, he was sure a good looking guy, why You are not showing us his photos, LE?
I’m beginning to think none of you understand what Dzhokhar is up against. A young man driven out of his mind. Accused of running over and killing his brother, murdering a cop, shot to pieces, held in solitary and you think he is going to come out of this in any kind of normal condition to stand trial where they look at fingerprints. What planet are you living on?
thank god not yours -you get soooo maudlin when you drink…
Of course he won’t be in normal condition: that’s the point of much of what’s going on. Break him so that he’ll agree to anything. PTSD already, and that’s just for starters.
And the defense asks the judge to rule on things they know the judge won’t rule on and that drags the paper work on (more money for them that way) and lengthens the time Dzhokhar sits in solitary. They feed on each other. The more time he sits there the worse he gets. His parents are out of the country and will probably stay there. His sister got out from under those charges because they knew all of us were watching how they handled that one. To persecute her at this time would have looked suspicious. His parents will never be able to be here again. Is this what they wanted.Israel is doing terrible things to the refugees from Sudan. When you listen to their ravings on youtube they sound like the nazis they have become. “Be careful in picking your enemies because you will become like them.” – NIetzsche.
Strategies, strategies, think, think..
Who are these terrorists? Has anyone seen these terrorists – WHATEVER YOU DO – DO NOT LOOK AT ANY OTHER PHOTOS – including your own. We have no matches despite our billion dollar software designed specifically to see terrorists in all their disguises…..
this could be a fun post on the blog – taking off from here – and inviting commenters to hoist another for the craziness!….
Yes–please do it, and capture the ones we have below–you should assemble this as another post! Excellent idea.
got it…
Caucasian or Chinese?
Student or Businessman or both?
released or escaped?
Cambridge or Alston?
C
Right! And don’t forget the cruiser dashcams, the ballistics on the shot-up SUV, the Watertown police incidence reports–the list goes on.
(out of here early tonight, crazy busy day tomorrow! ) Will look for post–LOL
Great!
Ah! Hilarious! We need a funny one. I was thinking along the lines of all the rubbish media reports that first came out too. NY Post went with him firing an automatic assault rifle out of the boat, then there was the ‘attempt to commit suicide by shooting himself in the throat’…. the list goes on. Six months has passed – are we allowed to laugh publicly yet?
None of this matters anymore. Tamerlan is dead and Dzhokhar is probably mad. At best he will be institutionalized now.
Also, no evidence of explosives at the brothers’ apartment….where did they construct the bomb?
That confession tripe is for us, not the court. To inflame public opinion, not as evidence. They are playing a game and you are all stuck in the fact that this is going to be a legal courtroom presentation. It is not.
drinking again tonight? mean drunk you are….
Missie, you’ve studied law. Does the standard of language, spelling, punctuation, referencing etc look up to standard ?
I must say that this is completely new to me. Does this mean that they are saying TTs gun was Colier’s?
Do You think there is a way they could have produced this?
I am quite confused on this one.
Hi. I don’t know how it works in the US. Is this a normal procedure for the prosecution to state, basically, “this is all we’ve got on him” ?
Or is this the reason why the defense requested more time – because they think that the prosecution has got other evidence, but only provided the pieces stated in this document?
As to the gun – crazy hypothesis: the so called carjacking victim, who is actually a handler meeting with TT, gives him the gun that was used to shoot Collier? Thus “planting the evidence” on him?
They are basically saying that they sent tones and tones of data, but that the data that matters is simple and straightforward. And then they cite, for the first time in my view, that they have the ballistics associating TT and DT to Cs death… that is not all they have, but that is one of the things they consider central.
As noted down thread, it is curious that they do not cite the ‘bed confession’ in the document.
But with so many misspellings (haha, it’s almost like me when I post here… I write too fast and press post before rereading), I am really skeptical if the document is kosher…?
Renny, do you think that these documents are up to standard in terms of language, grammar, punctuation, et cetera ? You write far better than whoever has written this. Any insights from the perspective of English as a second language ?
Hi, Saunders. Well, to me it looks like a draft, maybe? The language is not legal, and the grammar and punctuation are definitely not up to the standard of a legal document. I think Missie will be able to tell you more, but I would expect a draft of a document be written before the proper legal document is put together (?). Obviously, a draft would possibly not include details like the case number and date of filing???
Thanks. That’s what I thought. Legal secretaries are much better then this. Did you notice that one of the documents has a sign-off different from the others ?
Nope. Which one?
Sorry, I’m multitasking here. Writing while interpreting :)
let me see….I screenshotted the lot, have to sort it out.
But, the sign-off on 2 of the docs is ‘respectfully submitted’, the other is ‘very truly yours’. Also, on the ‘very truly yours’ one, Ms.Ortiz’s title is ‘US attorney, district of Massachusetts’ but on the others there is no mention of MA.
Something here’s not kosher.
Is it possibly because one was submitted by Nadine Pellegrini and the other one by Mr. Weinreb? Just a difference between their preferred sign-offs?
Good point. Worth checking out on other documents, though they’re still supposed to have come from Carmen Ortiz.
Saunders, did you manage to sort out anything about the email?
Still trying here: I’m not sure how it works. I’ll have to ask BabyBlake. I hvae the gmail address, but don’t know how to get it onto the site. Do you have any idea yourself ?
EDIT: just been in touch with BabyB – looks like it will be osrted sooner rather than later. You got anything interesting ?….
No idea, sorry. I’m sure BabyBlake will know.
Worry not, Renny….but keep an eye open for BabyBlake’s next masterpiece… ;)
It just occurred to me that the Scanners reported that whoever shot Collier was supposed to be covered in blood as – there was evidence on scene that suggested something of a struggle.
That means simple blood and DNA on either brothers clothes – inside the Mercedes or Honda – inside the boat – anywhere they went – would have been easy to find and suggest they were involved in the shooting.
I dont recall seeing blood on DT in the ATM picture or the Shell surveillance picture? Its much more difficult to see whether blood was on TT in the Shell picture – but Danny never mentions blood on either brother either…..And as lilly livered as he sounds in interviews – he would have soiled himself and then fainted had he seen anything like that.
You would think the other person in that Shell picture would have seen blood on Tamerlan – or even the store clerk?
Yep, definitely no blood on DT in the ATM pic or the Shell pic. And the clerk in Shell would have seen it, if there was any. The thing is, in the end, when apprehended, both brothers were probably covered with so much blood of their own – that the LE didn’t even bother testing their clothes for someone else’s blood.
So, based on the theory that the carjacking was actually a meeting with a handler/informant – is it plausible, that at that point TT was given the gun with which Collier was shot – in order for the LE to have the DNA, fingerprints and ballistics evidence they needed?
Hmmm? Not sure it is necessary to play act that far down the line. TT would have been suspicious if was handed a gun with blood on it. No?
It would do – to simply give them “a” gun – a car, – A Black Mercedes no less – an undercover state vehicle to get out without any problems.
Well, there was no need for blood on the gun (they could have cleaned it, if there was – and they would have done it to clean someone else’s fingerprint). The ballistics would prove that the bullet that killed Collier was shot from this gun (which is what they say they have). It was TT’s DNA and fingerprint on the gun that they needed. It sounds farfetched, I know :)
Yeah Renny, that was my thought as well… they planted it to link TT do Cs death.
but, according to the cc/indictment, the bros rented 2 rugers and practiced shooting before the ‘thon. why? no part of the BMB involved shooting, so…
they either knew about the shootout, or, what else? coincidence? had direct orders and never even suspected?
also, if they knew, and that’s just a theory, why wouldn’t they just buy a gun ahead of time? is there any reason they couldn’t get one? why would you go to all the trouble, plus take the giant risk of killing a cop?
I am only suggesting – linking TT to the gun could have been done much easier. I mean if they are bending time reality this far – what’s another itsy bitsy lie?
So, yes certainly could have been given to him.
I wonder what his reaction would be to getting a gun in a situation like that? What would they tell him to do with it? No one in that situation – handlers or otherwise – could possibly think that pea shooter was going to get them out of gun fight with police….
brilliance!
now THAT is what they call connecting the dots!!
I agree! And a connection right under our very noses that no one made, except C! Anyone posting on this? It needs to be out – maybe something with the timings also. Anyone?
its coming. In fact go to the blog and check out the draft – havent finished it need more contributions from you and Missie –
meteor shower ahead – Stay focused, play your best….
I’ll take a peek….
Okay now – I fixed it better
It’s good! And done in the sort of ‘style’ I was thinking of doing one on too! Maybe in relation to the media. Like the NY post saying he was firing an automatic assault rifle at LE from the boat…..
So insanely ridiculous it’s actually now quite funny!
i feel another danny story coming…in this version, they went shopping. on danny’s dime, of course.
they dumped the bloody clothes, and danny’s pissed in pants at armani exchange.
The stuff of legends there coach.
Quick calc. from the time & motion department: Land video, Green photographs vs Genck.
A 10 second start, over no more than 60m. ‘calmly but swiftly’ – brisk walking pace of 5m/s. 50m in 10 seconds. He’d be well clear. He’d have appeared in the Fred Land video far sooner than he did, and probably would have been well gone by the time David Green took his picture. Instead, Mr.Tsarnaev appears in line not only with the Tuft’s lacrosse woman, but with several figures appearing close to him in the Atlantic Fish shot.
Think I’ll do a short post on this.
I’m sure this has been stated here previously, but I just don’t get that they’re using this 10 seconds headstart of DT as something meaning he knew there was another bomb. Bear in mind that 10 seconds before the 2nd blast is exactly 2 seconds after the 1st blast (there is 12 seconds difference between the two, right?). So, the fact that he’s actually walking away is normal behaviour, because everyone around him is trying to walk away!
S: Google gives the distance between Forum and corner of Fairfield as 45 seconds. That’s obviously slow walk, but bear in mind that no matter how fast Mr.T is trying to walk, there is lot of scared people in front of him. Again, he’s stuck in the frame of Land video for at least 5 seconds, although he’s trying to run. Do we have any idea how far from Forum is the tree/red flag? I know Mr.Land states it’s 30 yards in the name of his video.
There’s some uncertainty with distances, due to inconsistent readings on the online maps. Google, Bing, and Openstreetmap give different readings.
I get what you mean about ‘why the 10-second start ?’ – but again this might be ‘detail’ that’s not there….similar to the 10,12,18 seconds etc alleged by Genck.
I agree that there’s a few variables here, but what I think is significant is the appearance of Dhz.T at Fairfield, and the figures who appear with him,
Not everybody reacted to move after the first explosion: (you can see that in the Land video, and there’s no reason to suppose that those further along reacted in a substantially different way). It’s only after the second that people are really scared and moving as fast as they can. Significantly (IMHO), most of them move diagonally across the sidewalk, causing a bottleneck.
The other factor is his starting point. Genck alleged that this was the Forum. Reacting immediately would have taken him clear of the congested zone and into the wider passage far earlier than he appears. Instead, he encounters the bottleneck in the wider passage. I don’t think he moved as Genck alleged. What would be the chances that he ended up dead level with all 3 characters who were right by him at Atlantic Fish ?
I always suspected that he never got past Atlantic Fish. And poor TT just completely disappeared. There is basically no photo of him after Back Bay.
When I was watching the Land video I noticed the reaction of the policeman. He doesn’t react to the first blast at all, because he’s looking the other way. He only realized something happened when he turned around and saw the smoke. The noise at the marathon and the distance from the first blast might be a factor as well.
Yes Renny. Quite a few may have thought it was something like a gas-mains explosion or something similar. Most people in the crowd would never have heard a bomb before. We have to get this e-mail contact sorted out. I’ll go to the forum site and see what I can do.
There are a few pictures of TT just past the Forum, at around 2:41 – 2, but according to Genck, he was there having covered half a block in 15 seconds. That’s a very respectable 3rd to Usain Bolt and Michael Johnson – according to the calcs. I did an article on it (and the rest of the time – place mismatches) but haven’t put it up there yet. I’ll have to do so.
TT is an athlete so he can be expected to cover it faster than average.
That was accounted for, but the times were from equivalent conditions: ie a clear track, and moving at full speed (not from a standing start), and not carrying the allegedly 30lb backpack, and not moving cautiously for fear of disturbing the cargo. Under those conditions, they were in touch with the sprinters: but we have a standing start, a crowded street, etc.
All those wonderful nuances must be included when you write about this. You had better do it with BB.
Thanks AB. :)
Very good perception Renny. A few “journalists” have remarked that the first explosion doesn’t faze Dzhokhar Tsarnaev at all so that must mean he did it, right? Maybe the policeman did it since he wasn’t fazed.
Can you tweet and ask for someone in the area to go there to check on distances and time. Last summer when the “cheating” images of Kristen Stewart came out, none of the “journalists” writing for the tabloids ever went to the site until a fan did. THEN THE STORY HAD TO CHANGE because nothing was the way the official narrative said it was. Someone needs to walk it at different rates, video themselves, etc. Someone in Boston can do this for you. Ask.
DT was in front of Crate & Barrel at the moment of explosion – at least that’s what I think. See my pic below. He’s between the lamppost (dark green line) and tree (pale green line). That’s a 20 second walk from the mailbox in front of Forum, according to Google Maps. I don’t think he moved as Genck says either – maybe he was in front of Atlantic Fish at the moment of the first explosion?
The perspective of the red line from DT to the two runners is wrong, by the way. The two runners (one with white T and black longsleeve) are level with the red flag on the moment of 2nd explosion (see lower pic – still from Land video).
Edit: oops, posted the still twice – sorry!
Hello Mrs. Peel – that is a very nice catch – I am assuming the still is timed at just the instant of the explosion?
Yes!
Wow – hey is that him in the far right under the tree? Is that the tree between Crate and Barrel and AFC? you answered my question above – sorry got 7 things going on at once right now.
This is an amazing find! BB lets get this on the Blog!!!
You mean in the first pic? Yes, that’s where YOU spotted him, remember?
Or do you mean the lower pic, standing in front of the store? No, that’s not him – I believe it’s the black guy who was a first responder at the Forum site.
Edit: here a satellite pic of the trees and lampposts – DT is between lamppost and C&B tree, I think.
It was Em! Coach have you gone mad in your old age?!? YOU picked him out there (ducking) and Missy cleaned up and enlarged him there! I was in a tent at the time if I recall correctly – that was late August man!
On the Atlantic Fish photo, Dzh.T is right next to a tree. Counting trees, traffic signs, other landmarks, and looking at a head-on view, he is right at the border of Atlantic Fish and the Crate & Barrel.
On the David Green photo, he is exactly in line with 3 other figures who were right next to him at Atlantic Fish. What are the chance of that if he hadn’t have set off from Atlantic Fish at the same time as the others, encountering the same conditions ?
He was at Atlantic Fish.
Nice video still…
You mean at the moment of the first explosion? I also think that he was in front of Atlantic Fish. It would also fit Genck’s observations better – people at the 2nd site all started moving, but the people further down the street (as in the Land video) are not greatly alarmed by the 1st explosion – only few walk away, some look to their left in surprise, but not everyone.
At the moment of the 2nd explosion, DT was in front of C&B.
Yes, Atlantic Fish at the 1st explosion, but that doesn’t fit with Genck. Genck claimed that he personally observed (from several sources of surveillance footage) Dzh.T at the Forum at the time of the first explosion, then waiting a very short time before moving off. I’m beginning to wonder if Genck observed anything at all.
How can he have observed what he did? People were starting to move at Forum immediately after the 1st explosion. The Tufts girls didn’t stay, for example – so how can he state that DT was the only one moving away?
He didn’t see it, probably because it didn’t happen. (IMHO)
Further to that, some more calculations which incorporate the Ethan Long camera error make Genck’s ‘observations’ even more bizarre. Even at a brisk pace, with a clear path, TT can move 21.25m in the 15 seconds that Genck claims to have observed. Genck describes the distance as about half a block, which makes a whole block 42.5 m. Surveillance footage shows that ? The shortest of the blocks is nearly 160m, so half a block would be 80m.
We now have an enhanced Brothers Tsarnaev vs.Usain Bolt.
We need someone in Boston to walk this multiple times and video it. Perhaps different people. Or a crowd with them. This can be done.
Read disturbing things about Genck here http://nodisinfo.com/Home/affidavit-criminal-complaint-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/
but have no idea how much of that info can be trusted.
What is his definition of a block, though? How can anyone know? Vague descriptions.
I don’t even know what my definition of a block is. It changes depending where you are. NY, Boston, Philly,Springfield MO, ?????
Judging from the writing I wouldn’t trust any of it. The false flag or simulation is best addressed at Dave’s site. I can’t find anything wrong with his presentation, can you?
since you like it – something must be wrong with it
Saunders did an excellent post on the ‘half a block’ rubbish. Tsarnaev V Bolt/Johnson.
Saunders – now may be a good time to post? You have that info and people are enquiring. If I recall it was ready to go.
Just preparing an enhanced version – incorporating the Ethan Long material and some new, better measurements and pictures..
How do I post it myself ? I have the gmail account but I don’t know if I’m registered as a contributor.
Genck was probably reading something written for him to say?
Quite possibly, problem is he signed it.
Under the circumstances I probably would too.
Love it Saunders….
Just read the affidavit by Genck on the site Mrs. Peel linked to and I don’t know if it’s an accurate version, but it says:
“At approximately 2:38 pm. (based on the video’s duration and timing of
the explosions) — i.e., approximately 11 minutes before the first
explosion — two young men can be seen turning left (eastward) onto
Boylston from Gloucester Street.”
What does he mean: “based on the video’s duration and timing”? – why doesn’t he just put: “based on the video timestamp”? Is it because the timestamp could be wrong?
And again:
“At approximately 2:41 p.m. (based on the video’s duration and the timing of the explosions), Bomber One and
Bomber Two can be seen standing together approximately one half-block
from the restaurant.”
Did he just take the timing of the explosions on the video, and then based on that he calculated everything backwards? So that he wouldn’t have to quote the timestamp of the video, in case it was wrong? Also, the restaurant’s camera must be really something if it can record people standing half-block away from it….I’m quite sure now they were standing at Atlantic Fish.
Hi, Mrs.Peel. In the first pic, it looks like he’s between the pole and the tree. The problem is, that would bring him quite close to the tree – only couple of yards. So, he would appear in the Land video only couple of seconds after the 2nd blast. But he comes at 1:10, about 10 seconds after the blast. Do you think he was standing there for a while? Maybe looking for Tamerlan?
He could have waited and looked around after the 2nd explosion, and then moved on… I would love to know!
Yes please Saunders! Often we don’t see the bigger picture when we get bogged down in the details – but these are important details and they need addressing. Mr Ghenk has been very economical with the truth in a number of his statements I believe, and here we go again – it’s another one. But this IS crucial. He was not ‘calmly walking’ away from anywhere – he was right there when the bomb exploded and ran like a bat out of hell along with everyone else to get out of there. Who would do that?
Update: it appears that Mr.Todashev was a legal permanent resident on a Russian passport. He had his green card.
Todashev’s father is some sort of government official – possibilities of foreign travel – if he was posted to the US for any length of time, that’s one way that IT could have been born in the US. If so, then the FEDs would have known that he couldn’t have been deported.
Ah fug it! We are gonna have to kill ’em.
Even since the update, it appears that there were no legal grounds on which to deport Mr.Todashev: he was there completely legally, no criminal record, etc.
Created a big problem for them. Like when a mediocre writer doesn’t know what to do with a character so s/he offs them.
Bang-bang you’re dead then.
After reading BB’s latest article on the blog, I had to read the Fox news article Indi posted excerpts from below. Normally, I see Fox News and I distrust everything that follows. In this case, I don’t know if Republican Senator Grassley is using this as an opportunity to embarrass the White House, but I wouldn’t be surprised. However, if you read Grassley’s letter and the questions he poses, it’s the same information we want to know. In fact, he asks, if the FBI interviewed TT at the behest of the Russians in 2011, was he recruited as an informant, and if not, why not? Meaning–yeah, he would have been a really good and obvious candidate. Grassley’s letter also points out that 2/3rd of the recent terrorist plots uncovered were FBI-coached, initiated, etc. Here’s the link–it details the unanswered questions Grassley has posed. http://www.myfoxboston.com/link/663584/chuck-grassley-letter
In fairness to the FBI, I can certainly understand why they would not inform local LE of all of their activities, as not every member of LE is above corruption and leaked information could negatively impact an investigation. However, it appears that in a case of this importance–a successful terrorist bombing in Boston, it would have been a good time to share information with local LE in Boston.
The MIT Stata Center is about a mile from Central Square in Cambridge–less than 5 minutes by car. In the area could definitely mean on the MIT campus and within earshot of events.
maybe he was already recruited by another agency? that is the only thing that can logically explain how and why the FBI treated him – and treats DTthe way they are now….
Sorry – cant get around it….
Read LeCarre. They are used up. Dzhokhar is useless to them and dangerous to be alive and worse to be out. If he is freed, he will be assassinated.If he is jailed he will be assassinated. Or he will receive capital punishment and be dead that way. DT is a dead man walking now. It is up to us to have made his life very meaningful to the cause of freedom, whatever the hell that is.
BB, first of all, thanks a loooooot for Your last post! You seriously rock.
Yes Missie, it is hard to believe TT had nothing to do with the FBI. Remember what the mother has said? Remember them calling and he saying, “that is Your problem” instead of fleeing? There was some kind of relationship… no way there wasn’t.
Here a letter Keating wrote in July. Just found it today:
http://ftpcontent3.worldnow.com/wfxt/pdf/keating-letter-to-fbi-director.pdf
You probably know this post. But just in case not, it is worth a read:
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/06/23/was-tamerlan-tsarnaev-a-double-agent-recruited-by-the-fbi/
Hi, Indi. I read that the FBI called TT and told him that he was a suspect and they asked him to come for an interview. To which he replied “that is your problem”.
It’s obvious that a normal person, who is not somehow connected to FBI/other agency, would never react like that. As Coach says, the only explanation for his reaction is that he felt he didn’t have to do what FBI asked him to. Because there was another agency behind him. Also, FBI obviously knew that, that’s why they gave him a call, instead of appearing in front of his door.
Yep, that seems to match, Renny, another agency. CIA?
http://www.progressivepress.net/tsarnaev-was-possibly-cia-says-fbi-whistleblower-video/
CIA wasn’t going to save them. Tameralan was used up. Trash. Dzhokhar was never theirs is what I believe. TT would have made a lot of contacts with his athletic lifestyle and physical ability would have been an asset to the organization, as well as a sign for those who might be “dangerous.” Tamerlan made a smart decision marrying an American woman for cover. Probably advised to do so.
and think about how things went down that night in Watertown – those local police officers didnt know him from Adam – “HE” thought they knew who he was – whether it was him yelling we didnt do it – throwing up his hands and walking into a surrender —OR — that is him on the ground at 526 MT Auburn yelling podstava – and asking if they will call his wife – We dont know for sure – but it looks like he/they thought law enforcement should have known him/ them (why not? Uncle Ruslan is a big shot – put yourself in their shoes and think like them for moment) – they act incredulous – he calls his mother? His mother reports DT/the family doesnt understand why this is happening?
If you were an agency or federal gopher/informant – and you were inexperienced in these matters and you were double crossed – this is how all of us would react.
Yeah, they were probably quite naive thinking that the agency would actually try protecting them. I guess TT didn’t realize until his final moment that they had been duped.
Do you think TT would have told his parents about working for an agency like that? I know he seemed to have a very close relationship with Mom – I remember her in the first TV interview she was saying that she would be the first one to know anything about her sons, because Tamerlan would tell her everything. And I remember uncle Ruslan complaining that she had too much control over the life of her children.
Not necessarily…….but the FBI had been in touch with that branch of the Tsarnaev family for several years: there’s reports of interviews, et c. Also, Mrs.T’s and/or TT’s telephone conversations had reportedly been monitored. So although Mrs.T knew something, she may not have been told the specifics, but worked it out.
I think that the one most likely to have been told was Dzhokhar, and maybe not until they were wanted men. TT certainly knew how much danger he was in: he telephoned the other uncle (Alvi) to apologize for a family rift that had been ongoing for several years. TT may well have told little brother pretty late in the day, but I bet he did tell him. That could be one reason why the prosecution seems to be very reluctant to provide full information.
But that’s what doesn’t make any sense – if TT knew they were in danger, why wouldn’t they just try to disappear, go “underground”, out of town…why would they stay in Watertown, as if waiting for someone to come and save them…I guess they didn’t have any money or documents, so they went there to meet with someone who could provide those? So, they still trusted the agency to get them out of trouble…
Also, Coach: if we think TT is the guy at Mt.Auburn – that means he is not one of the 3 guys at Laurel, correct?
correct – but its so blurry – as I said down thread – all I think we can rely on right now are eye witnesses –
You can’t rely on them. The Rashomon Effect. See wiki since everything I say means doo doo to you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_effect
I have also said – I think he was trying to get out and Watertown was were he was told to go – or his handlers were located –
I think getting them out of harms way was sabotaged – by someone – somewhere up the chain of command. And he realized it too late.
Again piecing his and DT’s behavior after the bombing – leads me in this direction.
Hypothesis:
That’s what the ‘carjacking’ was about. it was no such thing, it was a meet. They had further instructions to go and wait in Watertown, where it was an ambush. They were recognized by the ‘stolen’ number plates. That way, whoever set it up was completely out of the picture, leaving it to appear as a lucky break for the local cops.
Yep,that sounds about right to me.
yep – I’m with you on that as well.
Very nice speculation.
i always thought they threw in the carjacking to connect the collier shooting to watertown, in terms of time. this way it seems like a string of connected events.
perhaps a question about the timeline though? the cc/indictment claims the bros were at shell at 12:15, at 12:43 on the jimmyllama scanner it says the suv is at 89? dexter. i must have something wrong. an earlier scanner i haven’t heard? bc that’s almost 30 mins to go what, according to google, takes 8 mins. pretty leisurely for guys who just lost their captive.
Coach is the man for Watertown..
TY
Collier was definitely dead. IF the “bombing” was a simulation it would be harder to prove murder on them. What if they were planned victims all along? FBI and/or CIA would not hesitate to murder Collier.
Witness Protection Program would have been better than running all their lives. Like Snowden will have to. And Assange.
Yes that would duct tape their mouths. The fact that the FBI said TT was not an undercover or asset of theirs probably means that he was or they wouldn’t publicly deny it. You have to read public statements as their opposites. If the mother suspected, TT would have lied to her. Perhaps at the end he did tell DT when he suspected they were in trouble. To call his uncle and apologize could also have meant he thought they were going into the Witness Protection Program. The prosecution would not know he was an asset although they might suspect. There could have been a private leak but nothing formal that would go on paper. Why the FBI wanted jurisdiction of the case.
..It’s a bit like when a politician says ‘let’s be clear about this..’ it’s a sure signal of impending BS.
Interesting point about witness protection. If the prosecution has subsequently found out that TT was an asset, they have even more reason to withhold as much as they can from the defence, and to press for unseemly haste to prevent the defence from finding out any more. It scuppers the case completely – no jihadis, no lone wolf…
But if Dzh.T knows, and has told his defence, then they know absolutely that the prosecution is on the back foot, and may even know exactly why.
It’s my feeling and that’s all that they would not have bothered with Witness Protection for him but might have said that to lure him /them to Watertown for the offing. It would have seemed a better option to him than running all his life. They would then have hunted and hunted him and never looked for anyone else, or hunted and hunted to not betray the simulation hypothesis. Podestava.
And if DT knew and told his defense then we have another ball of wax. This defense is experienced in getting life for people who are being prosecuted under the death penalty. Ha! I just saw something. As long as there is a death penalty in this country, then they can ask for it, a defense then tries to settle for life instead, and a trial about innocence never happens. Neato.
Whatever he knew, or didn’t, his only chance was to stick with big brother….and no way would big brother let him do anything else.
Yes.
Absolutely not. It is illegal and forbidden to tell ANYONE if you are an asset. That is formalized in a statement.
She obviously knew – she is the pivot point in the whole narrative – Without her making such a fuss with both embassies, calling Putin, the President, the FBI, Ruslan – she was burning up the phone lines that night – Izevestia ran big story on how he was CIA and/or FBI and everyone in Russia new it. Thats why none of those groups he tried to link up with wanted anything to do with him. He was “outed.”
Without her – Ruslan never would have had to break his cover
Without her the FBI/CIA would have never had to break their covers –
She is the pivot point – Maybe they determined that since he was “outed” had told her – told Todashev, told Brendan – they were all silenced.
Once he’s busted, he’s a liability.
Yes.
i remember a report that said the bros called her and said, “the police are shooting at us now.” i never believed that bc i thought who stops in the middle of a shootout to make a phone call? but now i think it’s possible that – at this point- they realized something was up. perhaps their first thought was “somebody screwed up here, we better straighten this out. let’s call.”
i think laurel st. happened twice. the first was staged/a rehearsal which kitzenberg filmed before the blue-light shootout. then came the blue light shootout, the shootout next to the flower shop (do you need a pic of the cops/fbi investigating the next day?) and then the guy face down on upland. i think he’s a cop they plopped down there to distract the media, who were mighty close, from the evidence of a shootout a block away.
I can see them calling there mother/father to call Ruslan and find out whats happening? What is going on? A real sense of terror at not knowing why they are being hunted down…..
not sure about the stagecraft for kitz’s benefit – I am sticking to the brothers enlisting their handlers – Ruslan – somebody to get them out of their – and the whole thing is sabotaged. And the local pd’s is after everything that moves.
pajama boy, the taxi cab driver on the bike, the old man down at Arsenal – there were several take downs throughout the neighborhood all for media play and story lines – while the real work was conducted at Dexter/Laurel, Spruce/Lincoln, Adams/Mt Auburn.
thanks for the pik
i always thought they threw in the carjacking to connect the collier shooting to watertown, in terms of time. this way it seems like a string of connected events.
perhaps a question about the timeline though? the cc/indictment claims the bros were at shell at 12:15, at 12:43 on the jimmyllama scanner it says the suv is at 89? dexter. i must have something wrong. an earlier scanner i haven’t heard? bc that’s almost 30 mins to go what, according to google, takes 8 mins. pretty leisurely for guys who just lost their captive.
i think they stopped in front of kitz’s house according to plan, so he could get those pics and be a witness, unbeknownst to the bros. ya, i think he’s part of it: the story he told matches an early version of the official story which we now know to be false. how did he see all this crap that never happened? his pics do not match other evidence. and he says things like, “they were utilizing bombs.” i find him to be not credible.
forgive my naivete, but what is the significance of spruce/lincoln? besides the suv being dumped there?
the timeline is incredibly messed up – no way to make heads or tails –
Most media accounts have the carjacking occurring at around 11:00 pm
there is a fox news pik of DT leaving the ATM at 11:18 –
The crim complaint says they carjacked the car at around midnight –
but there is a Shell surveillance pik of them at 12:17 am buying snacks.
the scanner says the car jacking occurred at 1001 Cambridge, Richies Shell – and the PD is at Memorial around 12:40 am
12:43 am the scanners make the connection between the MIT and the carjacking
12:47 am the scanners announce shots fired.
again – I am not saying they staged Kitzenberg photos – I am saying there was so much deliberate confusion that night – to speculate beyond eye witness accounts is futile.
i’m glad i’m not the only one! have you determined which data/evidence re: timeline holds the most credibility for you?
have you seen that weird “getting the footage” footage by kitz’s roomie?
decided to post the pic. sure you have it already, but now i can stop thinking about it and get on with my day.
i think watertown p.d. did have a name.
the fbi just claimed they had no name on tt until they printed his corpse.
however, in podstava vid, which is either tt, or it occurs very close to the time of his death, we can see the police checking the pockets/wallet/id of the unnamed suspect on the ground. they look at the i.d. and confirm, “it’s him.”
what information did they get from that i.d. that confirmed he was their suspect? most certainly, it was the printed name. if they didn’t already have a name to match the i.d name to, it wouldn’t really matter what name was on the i.d. they compared the name on the i.d. to a name they already had.
hmmm?
good point.
I think an American asset would not be so naive. A Chechnan would not have seen so many Hollywood spy movies since childhood, nor read espionage books like LeCarre. See Fifth Estate for throwing assets under the bus.
Yes it is. Literally ‘wtf is going on? Don’t you guys know I’m know who I am/or that I’m nothing really to do with this/or I am but I’m protected?’
Everything speaks to his confusion at been done over, imo.
CIA and FBI don’t necessarily share info. TT would have been CIA but that doesn’t grant immunity. So perhaps podestra (?sp) meant he thought CIA was meeting with them in Watertown to get them out of Dodge. CIA set it up with him but not for what they told him. But MI5, MI6 and CIA are infamous for throwing joes under the bus when push comes to shove. Obviously TT didn’t know that, nor should he have, as he probably never read LeCarre. If you see the new movie on Assange Fifth Estate, it is in there also.
Yes, I’m confused by this. Bomb(s) go off. Pics go out/appeals for info etc. EVERYBODY in Boston and the rest of America is on tenterhooks wanting the terrorist perpetrators caught. So what do you do? Call someone up and request they come in for a chat?!?!? No – you kick down their door with a swat team and haul them in. But then of course we’re told they didn’t know his identity until they fingerprinted his corpse..;…
There was clearly a relationship. What the nature of that relationship was is what we all want to know.
Well once he’s dead, there’s no problem getting prints onto the gun….or anywhere else. Rigor mortis soon wears off.
..and how’s about when you’re semi-conscious on Dilaudid ? Was anybody else in that hospital room with the high value interrogation team ?
” it would have been a good time to share information with local LE in Boston. ” This just shows that you have no understanding of how the FBI works. It’s logical yes of course. BUT LOGICAL IS NOT – NOT – PROCEDURE. There is a big difference.
And missy this would be an excellent time to write an overnight priority letter, return receipt requested – to Grassley telling him of your same questions, refer to your blog, and be sure to include a print out that would be important for him to know (just one blog post will do) and include the LINK. Include how many hits you have gotten, so it is widely read, for this is important to a senator.
Did I miss something? Is this a mistake? This says Ibragim Todashev was born in the USA?
Um, that says born in the US…..
Um – gulp – yea!
What is it? Where did it come from? And could somebody (anybody) of just typed in what they wanted to there?
Dont know – found it – I think it is his MMA card that licensed him to fight. I was asking the same questions?
No way to know for sure now.
You need to do serious work on your forum site. You could be the hub of all this if you could just get your comments over there. Someone with some experience should take over. This is not the time to fug around learning how to do it.
no one cares what you think. go away. leave them alone
Right folks – I’m back and completely lost after my working holiday. Can someone point me in the direction of just what the hell I’m supposed to be doing?
Thanks.
Been on a working holiday myself. There’s lots more on Watertown. The photo stuff is secondary, I think. Judge O’Toole ruled against more time for the defence, and we’ve all missed you. :)
Renny, Missie. 10471 Green, D is under the clock at 03:29:50, which is 14:09:50 if he started at 10:40. The other possibility is the 10:20 start.
Black kit, white visor, black wristbands, long white socks.
But, time to get changed by 14:49
Yep. He enters the video from left upper corner at 1:51, slowly proceeds down the road toward the finish line, looking at his phone. He then puts his phone up as if taking pics and disappears from our sight at 2:07. He’s got the white blanket over his shoulders, but you can see the black kit, white visor and long white socks. The yellow shirt is hanging down from his waist.
Later he comes back into the picture at 2:31 and stays there seemingly recording a video on the phone, until a car with a siren comes, he turns, seems to try stopping it and then backs off the picture again, this time down on the sidewalk. He reappears again at about 3:37 and stands in the middle of the road, just looking around.
Amazing work, Renny and Saunders. So, at 2:50pm the second explosion occurs which is 1:01 in this video, and at 1:14 we see what appears to be DT zooming down the sidewalk. This footage captures the street in front of the awning covered eatery just to the west of Crate & Barrel, an address of 774 Boylston. Literally within a few seconds run of the corner of Fairfield, where David Green is around, across the street, on the opposite corner, snapping photos of the crowd. We see David Green emerge at 1:57 per Renny’s capture. I guess what is worth noting is that DT appears to be running within a crowd here that has thinned out within maybe what–15-20 feet? The left edge of the Land video is just left of the large tree you can see on Google maps. You can also see the crowd wearing the pink and red coats behind DT on the sidewalk that he is making his way through at 1:14 on the video–they show up behind him in David Green’s photo. All the timings appear to match up, except for the Criminal Complaint language of David Ghenk and his account of DT leaving the scene.
Indeed indeed.
Oh. Grrrrrrrr. Look what I’ve missed! Excellent work guys – I am assuming this means Ghenk is in for another roasting blog/site wise? Any takers yet?
…don’t forget that Genck has his surveillance footage to rely on…
So behind here – frustrating. I scrolled down thread and read all I’ve missed. To summarise where you’re at re the timings of the new vid and the Greene pic – they match up.
This issue now is that makes no sense if DT was calmly walking away 10secs before bomb went off, correct? What time difference are we talking here EXACTLY?
I didn’t catch the actual figure, but I know you eager beavers will of worked it out.
As for the surveillance footage – well that’s not going to match up with the Land vid and the Greene pic either now is it?
Numbers anyone?
I have that 10 seconds nonsense in my archive somewhere: I worked it out – it’s BS, if I remember right. But I wil lcheck it again.
I actually think that Mr.Ghenk’s account would have been bulletproof, if he didn’t make one “tiny” mistake, and if he had changed the word “first” for the word “second” (see first line of his statement).
In that case his statement would have read (I added times):
Approximately 30 seconds before
the “second” explosion, he lifts
his phone to his ear as if he is speaking on his cell phone (that´s
4:09:25 race time), and keeps it there for approximately 18 seconds (up to
4:09:43). A few seconds after (say 2 seconds = 4:09:45) he finishes the
call, the large crowd of people around him can be seen reacting to the
first explosion. Virtually every head turns to the east (towards the
finish line) and stares in that direction in apparent bewilderment and
alarm. Bomber Two, virtually alone among the individuals in front of the
restaurant, appears calm. He glances to the east and then calmly but
rapidly begins moving to the west, away from the direction of the finish
line. He walks away without his knapsack, having left it on the ground
where he had been standing. Approximately 10 seconds later (4:09:55), an explosion occurs in the location where Bomber Two had placed his knapsack.
Good morning Renny.
Have a look at ‘False Gods’ over on Forum1, I’d love to know your opinion on that.
Good morning Saunders. I did look at it and I agree with you. In the way Mr.Ghenk puts it, it doesnt make any sense.
Thats why I thought he might just have made a “mistake”, but thats his problem :)
The main problem is that Genck was claiming to have it all on surveillance, and from several surveillance cameras at that.
All that detail is absent from the indictment.
Renny, do you have anybody’s email ? We could do with being in touch off-site.
No, I don’t have anyone’s email. Is there any way how to get it? I was trying to find your contact details on the forum blog, but couldn’t find any.
And I’m aware of Mr. Ghenk’s claim he’s got it all on surveillance. To me it looks more like he just thought that if he put exact numbers (30, 18, 10) it would appear he had a surveillance video (?)
That’s what I thought from the start. It’s interesting also to note that the other time references are 14:41 – 2. That’s when the Bob Leonard photos are time-stamped, and the actions of the brothers in those photos appear in Genck’s statement—TT ahead, Dzh.T a few metres behind, the pause, then they set off. However, the Bob Leonard timestamp was not correct. It’s some 3 minutes ahead of real time. With regard to those photos, Genck makes specific references to ‘contemporaneous’ photos from across the street, which is right where Bob Leonard was. If Genck had had surveillance, the timestamp error in Bob Leonard’s camera would have been discovered – being out of sync with regularly-calibrated surveillance kit – and several of them, remember. The ‘2.41’ would have never appeared in Genck’s statement. The timestamp error was established before you were here, so you perhaps would not have known. It’s solid: calculated from time-of-day finishes for identified runners. Data from the Boston Marathon website, and from the marathonfoto site where runners are depicted under the clock. I still have all the data and the calculations.
No surveillance goes some way to explaining the images that the FBI released. (ie not the Bob Leonard or Whiskey’s cameras, those dodgy-looking ones.) I think you’ll be able to see what these are…
We’ll work out a way to get the e-mail numbers sorted – I’ll hvea ato take advice on what’s the best way to do it. RalienSeven is back.
Well, in this vid, David Green comes into the frame at 1:51, which is 51 seconds after the second blast. DT’s legs are in the frame between 1:10 and 1:16 (that is 10 to 16 seconds after the blast). That means there is exactly 35 seconds for DT to get to the corner to get his photoshoot and Mr.Green to slowly proceed towards the finish line in order to appear in the video frame.
If DT had left the front of the Forum 10 seconds before the blast and walked slowly to the west, he would have been at the corner of Crate&Barrel and Atlantic Fish by the time of the blast (?). So, 10 seconds after the blast he would have been….?? Where? Google calculates walking distance from Forum to corner of Fairfield as 45 seconds. Saunders?
I just want to take the time to note that this timing stuff is excellent and the photos and videos here put the lie to the MSM report the Bros hung around after the explosions to observe the carnage they had wrought–it was some more dis-info that fed into the building of the public opinion against the bros. (NOt to mention the fact that TT apparently dropped off the face of the earth after leaving the Forum restaurant because there are NO OFFICIAL PHOTOS released of him at the Finish Line–and no one seems to care!!. I like to keep writing that fact–which hasn’t changed over the last six months that I’m aware of.)
Snark!
Heh-heh. ….not in the greater scheme of things…but sometimes it’s irresistible to do something out of pure badness. It aids sanity.
S.
Yep!
Super work guys.
I think you can see him better here.
or rather here…
I am curious so asking this question, then I have to leave for a bit today. In the Fred Land video, does anyone make out David Green moving up the street toward the Forum? He took the backpack-or-not photo of DT rounding the corner of Boylston, and then further up, he took video of the red-shirt firefighter Matt Patterson rescuing Jane in the street, jumping that fencing at AFC. Just curious if anyone made Mr. Green, he has reddish hair and is fairly tall, if I remember photos of him.
This is one for Renny.
Do you know if this is the shirt he was running in? If yes, it shouldn’t be difficult to see him. I will have a look at the video.
Hi Renny, don’t know because there is another photo of him holding up his cellphone with the same photo he captured. It’s a longshot, but as you asked the question about the shirt, I was thinking he was wearing a similar color shirt in the cellphone display photo….
Thanks Missie. I believe he’s wearing the same shirt in the cellphone display photo. You can only see the part around the neck there, but I think it’s the same shirt. I don’t know the story of Mr. Green. Was he still running at the time when the bombs went off or had he finished by then? Just thinking, if he would have put on a jacket or have that white blanket on his shoulders the runners were apparently given.
Finished the marathon in black. He had two distinctive black wristbands, a white visor, and long white socks. I’ll see if I can find when he finished.
white visor, long white socks? I think I’ve got him…he’s got a white blanket… just give me few minutes…
It IS him. Under the clock at 3:29:50. Confirmed on the marathon photos site. Name and number correct, it’s him.
David Green’s cell-phone photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev appearing to move away from the scene of last Monday’s bombing almost seemed too good to be true, Associated Press Director of Photography Santiago Lyon said in a phone call Friday evening.
“When the picture began to circulate, we were suspicious of it because when we looked at it closely it seemed to have been a composite picture,” Lyon said. “But what happens often with digital imagery is when you’re looking closely at low-resolution files you see things that are misleading, because of the way the pic is compressed or the size of the file.”
A cropped version of Green’s photo (AP Photo/David Green)
So the AP asked Green, a Florida businessman who’d completed the marathon and was watching other runners finish when the bombs went off, for a high-resolution version of his pic. The time stamp and the resolution convinced the photo department it was real. After the AP did a little reporting on Green — making sure he’d run the race, that he was who he said — they struck a licensing deal.
Renny: I haven’t checked Green’s time against the runners, but I can later today and let you know. However, he would have to have been in the mens finishers. We can determine if he would have finished much earlier, or as you say, come back down the sidewalk from the finish line to watch, maybe wearing a white blanket. Or he may have been walking back to the finish line, or come out of his hotel. I thought it interesting that the story starts with AP doubting the photo’s authenticity because of the resolution of the image file. http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/211087/how-the-ap-verified-photo-of-boston-bombing-suspect-leaving-scene/
The decor on the back of the cap has been missed by the Whiskey’s surveillance video, I think because of the light. But, I think it’s just visible in the last frame. Faint, but it’s there. I’ll try to get a better view. Renny ? Anyone ?
Is this better?
Nice one. You’re one mean photowizard Renny. Now, on the Bob Leonard photos, is it possible that on every one, the angle and the light were such that the decor is missing from the shot ?
Please keep this one offline for the moment, I’m not sure what the best procedure is for keeping the perpetrators of the ‘interventions’ at bay.
If you’re up for it, there could well be some more image tasks for you.
Thanks again.S.
I think the problem with Bob Leonard’s photos is that they’re taken from quite far away. The letters are not that large. When you zoom in, the “whiteness” of the cap just erases them and you can’t see them. The Atlantic Fish photo is taken from a small distance, that’s why it’s so visible, IMO.
Any help you need just tell me.
Thanks R. That’s what I found, it just whites out completely.
In the Bob Leonard photos, do you find anything strange at or around Dzh.T’s shoulders ?
S: in virtually every shot? I’m thinking particularly of the DTphoto in the crowd taken by Forum surveillance camera, where he’s walking between the two mysterious railings, cellphone in hand, girl in blue jacket behind him…your photo on the blog?
The Bob Leonard shots…..
Why do you think that the other image is Forum surveillance ?
Regarding that image, I think I know where it’s come from.
Good morning Saunders (it is here on the other side of the world)….
We have been assuming its the Forum surveillance based on the description of the Forum surveillance camera(s) in the criminal complaint – and – the other markings in the photos – ie., to the left in one Denise Richard is standing their with David Yepez and her son Henry – in another the blonde women with the red and white scarf is seen standing in front – the railings of the Forum patio – etc. We pieced it together based on all of the above.
The railings are not those of the Forum. I can’t find them anywhere on Boylston Street. The image has a colourful history, and I’m far from convinced that it’s real at all. Anyway, I can always look again….
S: I think I might know where those railings are (and no they are not the ones that belong to the Forum restaurant), but I need that pic with that girl in blue behind him and the lady in blue hat in the front. The one you used here:
Shall we keep this offline?
Yes Renny, keep it offline. How can we do it ?
White hat 2a, suspect 2b – direct from the FBI site.
Post it on your blog and keep it a draft.
get the hint?
Cryptic, my friend, very cryptic. Do we see a new allthingsforum1.blogspot.com post coming on….
Could you be more specific? I can’t see anything strange at his shoulders.
Could you also please post the picture Missie is talking about? I would like to have a look at it and I don’t think I have it. Thanks.
Never mind the shoulders for now.
I’ll get back to you on the other image. Suffice to say, it looks to have a long and colourful history. I think it’s a total crock, some sort of montage, and that it’s not taken at the Forum. The railings are not those of the Forum. I think it’s been further interpolated to give the appearance of a hazy image, because the detail wasn’t there in the first place. I can’t get to the image immediately, but it was direct from the FBI website: 2 versions, standard and ‘high-res’. If you go to the allthingsforum1, there’s a very short article on it, it’s mostly pictures, and it’s called something like ‘railings – where are those railings. ?’ Have to dash for the minute.
I think I’ve worked out where it’s from, but can’t deal with that right now. I think you’ll be interested.
Glad to see you’ve joined. :)
Thank you, Saunders. I read the article and I agree there is something fishy about the photo. I just never saw the original photo, only what you had in your analysis. Now you made me really curious about it. :)
Hi S and R. The writing on the cap – someone enquired about this the other day. It seems to be down to the exposure. A lot of the pics were quite dark so had their ex cranked up. In that process you ‘lose’ the writing to the whiteness of the cap. You can try it yourself with one where the writing is visible – I did as I didn’t initially buy the ‘exposure explanation’!
It’s true – the writing goes.
Thanks BabyB. that’s what Renny concluded.
…and here’s a super-res of the Atlantic Fish cap.
a lil’ larger
NOW we’re talkin’…
Atlantic Fish cap: 2 lines of writing, should be prominent on all full-face shots.
Anyone have opinions/insights regarding judge O’Toole’s ruling on Friday ?
Well, I didn’t expect anything else. They are trying to intimidate the defense into negotiating the guilty plea in exchange for life instead of death penalty, IMO. The prosecution don’t want a trial at all.
I bet the defense doesn’t either.
S: the excerpt I saw of his opinion in your link–read as if Defense was asking him to make new law in ruling in their favor and he was declining to interfere with a federal process. However, I will have to reread as that may be a very erroneous interpretation–is there a Guest listening who could comment?
my read as well, but for one little niggling thing – and that is how connected this motion was to the motion for additional discovery? Its not been clear to me whether this motion (denied one) was simply for more time to go over and prepare based on what was provided (2 terabytes worth) or whether it was for the other records related to the FBI interogation of family, Todashev and others….
There may be some overlap on this one coach, but as I remember, there’s a lot about people in Russia..
A clarification.
Way way back, it was reported that Tamerlan T. telephoned his uncle after the bombings, to apologize.
This is true, but the details seem to have been less widely-reported.
It appears that the uncle in question was not R.Tsarni, (the one on the telly, denouncing his nephews) but another brother, Alvi. (Both men are brothers to Anzor Tsarnaev).
Mr.A.Tsarni stated that the call was on 18th April, and that the apology concerned the rift within the family. He also expressed disbelief about the notion that his nephews had attacked the marathon.
Here’s the link.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/19/2nd-uncle-of-bombing-suspects-yesterday-he-called-me/
It’s only a detail, but I think it says a lot.
Coach: the link Indi has posted below to WBUR article, did you look into it? I was reading about Indi’s Jean MacDonald, and the Laurel street resident says:
Jean MacDonald lives on Laurel Street. Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s body ended up in her driveway after he was run over by his brother, who was trying to escape.
Checked her address, and she lives at 43 Laurel, which is the blue house at the very end of the block where the cruisers were parked. That means TT had walked and/or run all the way down from 61 Laurel where the Honda & Merc were parked and DT was left standing without a weapon/gun (with that third person, we believe) It’s roughly 90 yards between the two houses on Laurel. Whether or not DT’s vehicle clipped him and dragged the body (supposedly 20 feet) which not all the eye witnesses observed in their accounts–there was inconsistency on this point–why was he walking up to the cops if they were shooting at him? He sustained 8-9 wounds per Sgt. Pugliese’s account. He was out of bullets and had no weapon on him when he was “taken down” by the three Watertown cops–sounds like a surrender. (I never understood he had made it all the way to the end of the street until I read MacDonald’s comments to NPR’s interviewer in this article-thanks again, Indi!)
Hi Missie, yes, I find it hard to understand what was going on there. He walks towards the policemen, firing his weapon, but knowing the weapon will soon run out of bullets, and then, when the weapon does not respond he throws it at Pugliese’s chest and gets all those bullets. I don’t get the logic. That would be like suicide, walking out of the car, firing, and then throw the gun. I don’t get it.
Yes, and if you recall, Pugliese also expressed astonishment that instead of running back to the Honda/Merc for safety, instead TT ran the opposite direction after throwing his jammed gun at Pugliese’s thigh and turning to leave. The Sgt’s account hinted there may have been a moment when the two men, both with jammed weapons, were staring at each other, however briefly. So Pugliese knew TT was no longer a threat, but Reynolds, MacLellan, etc. had no clue as he ran into the line of fire. Still, since Pugliese said he’d been positioned in the backyard of a house close enough to see the brothers feet beneath the cars, he had to have been behind one of the two houses next to the 61 Laurel (line of sight.) Could TT have run so far with so many bullets in hm? Would he have needed 3 men to take him down? This part of the story begins to sound both mysterious and far-fetched.
Once he stepped out from behind the Mercedes he was a “sitting duck.” That Mercedes was parked under a broad radius street light – plus the lights at the ends of that short street, plus the highbeams directly on him. Seriously? I have written before – no way he steps into the line of fire. If that is him (TT) he had just called his mother, he had raised his 2/3 year old daughter while his wife worked – I guarantee at that moment he is thinking about his family and how bad he wants to live…..No way – no how he makes a suicide run. He is too connected to this world – he is too vain.
Maybe he just gambled in the heat of the moment: shield Little Bro ?
you gamble on 10 feet, maybe 20 feet…
He walked 80 yards in darn near the light of day – with a pea shooter – a dozen or more guns? Missie is right – this is a tall tale bordering preposterous…You also have – the question of whether that is them yelling we give up, we didnt do it, etc., What if he throws his hands up and walks towards the cars – gun in hand over his head – he sees officer P to his left – throws the gun – his hit several times and tackled? There is no police officer in the world who is going to come forward and say – we panicked and shot at a disarmed man giving himself up?
you quickly make the story up and stick to it – I have no doubt they have bent their stories before – maybe to this degree – maybe not. But this story has got a big bend to it.
Yes, that is my problem as well, C. I don’t think he committed suicide, I really don’t. S., yes, he sure did the “dangerous job” to step forward to protect DT.
So what we have is a guy walking towards armed officers, when he no longer had fire.
Are there any eyewitnesses? Can we reconstruct the whole scene and define where he threw the gun away, when he changed the running direction from one officer to the other, when the officer was shot, when the supposed bombs were thrown?
And then try to think about the third element…
Indi, I’ve not been able to determine where Donohoe went down–there was an eyewitness, a woman, who saw him go down, and I faintly recall her account indicating by inference she may have seen something that convinced her someone in the crowd fired on him, or it may have been the timing of Donohue going down–it being after DT in the SUV had already passed beyond the location of Donohue’s fall. Not sure.
Yepp Missie, what I understood from C. was that the officer went down in the occasion of DT driving away.
I found this. Coach, You are more familiar with the whole puzzle. What do You think?
this account is contradictory on so many accounts – as to have been a completely seperate incident . I can only conclude the police accounting is incorrect or fabricated. I think the only way we are going to get any semblance of a fair understanding of what happened is to rely on eye witness accounts – more eye witness accounts have congrunecies and overlapping accounts than the police account.
I hope it’s being conducted more methodically than the snafu of an arrest. I saw Fifth Estate last night and watched – again – the video of the Reuter journalists getting murdered from Manning’s tape. When I read some of this Watertown stuff in words it doesn’t become anything in my mind. I thought of the Manning tape as it might be described in words and published in a newspaper and it would never have rocked any boats if presented that way. To watch those journalists mowed down because of out of control US soldiers is pretty much the same thing as out of control Boston Police, all trying to get their scalps and outdo each other. That’s how I see it. Nothing brave at all. Boys grown old playing with guns.
There are a lot of eyewitness accounts to collect, I keep running across them all the time–would be a good project to drive some new analysis, perhaps.
Mish-mash. LIke listening to a bunch of kids on a playground telling you what happened when x and y got into a fight.
Witnesses are notoriously unreliable. The Rashomon Effect explains it. Who knows what that woman saw, what she thinks she saw, what she said she saw and all the ways it has changed with the telling.
We cannot know because all we have is their testimony. And since they have gotten together to smooth out their story. We will never know.
yea whatever
Fair enough coach, I was just throwing it out there..
It’s full of lies, psychotic cops, crowd dynamics, macho posturing, etc so it’s a mess. And a courtroom is not going to straighten it out or fix it. Does anyone want to expose how stupid and violent these people are?
yea whatever…
Psychologizing what he would or would not do at that moment is irrelevant. He did it, they are lying, it was not TT, etc. We do not know what other things he might have been involved with. If you were being framed for a simulation bombing, that would be enough to drive you over the edge.
yea whatever…..
Might depend where he was hit. Also, he was VERY strong and up to the eyeballs with fight-or-flight response. Also, he may have been prepared to take the risk to save Little Bro.
It might be worthwhile finding out which units self-deployed there. Tearing in there without authorization would have added to the chaos.
These guys are out of control, and not only in Boston and Philadelphia. I have experienced it over a cat. I would not let them in without a warrant and they were enraged. When I took it to the vet a few days later they walked in there (2 of them) without a warrant and took the cat returning her to the woman who starved her. They wanted to smash me that day but couldn’t at the vet office.
This has always been my speculative take on it. He ran up there exposing himself in such a way to save his little brother. TT wasn’t suicidal no – but he was the dominant, older brother, a role he took very seriously. When the chips were down and his bro was there terrified thinking he might die, TT made that split second (insane) decision. If the jukalis vid is correct in what we’re hearing they tried to give up and were met with more bullets. What would you do? I’d save my little bro – instinct would take over.
How to go about getting this information re: self-deployment?
Hello Missie.
There’s already been mention of it in the media – but I can’t dig
it out for now.
S.
To try to get any truth out of the narrative is probably doomed. My suggestion is to just gum it up even more until everyone believes a piece of it, but different pieces for everyone.And no one believes the entire narrative.
Why do you find suicide an objectionable option here?
After listening to that Philadelphia street search on youtube for no apparent reason and listening to those cops go on as if they were on speed or something, I do not doubt the Boston Police would also be out of control. We are now faced with a nation where cops are just generally out of control. That’s huge numbers. Fire them all? I don’t see that. Discipline them? I don’t see that either. It’s a general trend in the demographics of the type of people who go into police work as a career.
One of the Twitter crowd has posted a comparison of DT’s white cap–the WESHTV publicized photo by the Daytona kid (DT’s profile view) versus the Bob Leonard photos in front of Back Bay…. And quess what? There’s some black writing on DT’s R. Lauren white cap shown in the WESH photo that is missing from Mr. Leonard’s photos, and it’s above the strap on the cap’s back….is Saunders listening? (sorry, I cannot post her work here because a) I don’t have my laptop with capture software, and b) found her work on my mobile twitter and now cannot retrace my steps. When I’m able to do so, will give her credit for a nice catch.)
Saunders is indeed listening. Saunders has been very busy….
That sounds hot. Please post the link.
And where is BB!??
Busy.
So curious I am shaking. :)
What a fantastic catch ! 100 up-votes. I’ve posted an image of the cap up at the top of the thread. 2 lines of text, should be prominent on all full-face shots.
It would depend if a photoshop tool were used on the pic. Say Gaussian Blur, which would deface and blur the letters on the cap.
O’Toole has denied the defence request
http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/18/5318451/judge-wont-act-on-marathon-death.html
But that can be expected. And the defense certainly expected it also. But it makes the defense look as if they are trying harder than I suspect they are trying. They are not concentrating on innocence, they are concentrating on Life not Death. DT needs a lawyer who believes in his innocence and will go the mile to prove it, since I don’t see how the prosecutor can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt – or even close – with a good defense. I believe this is where all our energy should be going. To find him a good lawyer and build up a $ fund instead of obsessing about the number of feet between TT and the cops, the letters on the cap, the railings in front of the Forum, etc. Now how to do that?
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/10/the-alarming-mistakes-police-made-after-the-boston-bombing/280635/
Yes, Missie. Thanks. It is necessary and important to ask the questions the journalist is asking. I wish other newspapers would do it too. That should actually be the job of a healthy, based on free-speech media.
More questions and bits of info (or disinfo?) http://www.wbur.org/2013/10/18/watertown-manhunt-questions
“I wanted to know why they came down this street,” MacDonald said. “Did they know somebody down this street? They’re from Cambridge.”
This part of Watertown is a confusing run of streets that veer off in many directions. But the Tsarnaevs seemed to know the area well. A friend of the older brother used to live two blocks from Laurel Street, and a car registered to the younger brother was ticketed here during a snow emergency. But why did they come here that night? Not once, but three times.
(…)
“After the shootout, and driving over his brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev took off in the car. Police fired at him, but did not follow. Deveau said that’s because a MBTA police officer, Richard Donohue, had been shot. He was probably a victim of friendly fire, as Tsarnaev tried to escape.”
With Donohue down, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev drove up Spruce Street for a half-mile. He jumped out of the stolen vehicle, and took off on foot, leaving the car in front of the home of Jack Condon.
“The driver’s side door was open and it was bullet-riddled,” Condon recalled. “There were no police around it for a while, I would say 10 minutes, probably. But it wasn’t like the police all came flying up with their lights on.”
This is much different than officers reporting they came up behind and took fire and grenades and crashed their car into a backyard to avoid fire. Wonder if it happended before Condon saw this account?
Hmm… I find it very interesting that he states: 10 long minutes passed until somebody showed up. That is ultra weird, isn’t it? Come on, it was not because the officer was down… there were a group, so one could have stayed while the others would have chased. It is weird.
Anybody hear from Patsy V- she also had a differing account or reason to believe the Spruce Street accounts were flawed. This would be a great question to ask her?
It’s useless. That’s why wikileaks exists. Newspaper accounts are not going to do anything to help him. Just to provide better conversation among people talking about it. Strengthening one side in the Discourse. We don’t have free speech in our media and haven’t for decades. Deal with it. Stop playing on their turf.
Why do I keep saying this?
ah…. cuz you think you are smart…
ah…..cuz you like to repeat yourself
ah……cuz you are stupid
ah…..cuz you dont care what the work is…
ah…cuz you are a paid troll
ah…cuz you are lonely and drink to much
ah…cuz all of the above
This poor girl.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2013/10/18/tatiana-gruzdeva-deported/
” She was accompanied on her flight to Moscow by two officials from ICE, she said, and when she landed, she was questioned by Russian officials for six hours. Her mother then met her at the airport and the two drove back to Tiraspol, Moldova, together.”
We are not the only ones wanting to know:
“Grassley also writes that his office has learned through sources that, “In the hours leading up to the shooting of Collier and the death of the older suspect involved in the bombing, sources revealed that uniformed Cambridge Police Department officers encountered multiple teams of FBI employees conducting surveillance in the area of Central Square in Cambridge. It is unclear who the FBI was watching, but these sources allege the Cambridge Police Department, including its representation at the (Joint Terrorism Task Force), was not previously made aware of the FBI’s activity in Cambridge.”
Read more: http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/23722778/tough-questions-for-fbi-over-marathon-bombing-response#ixzz2i4ssxxL8
Nice one Indi.
wow wow wow!!!
So, some guy robs a 711 at 750 Mass Ave – two blocks from this large FBI surveillance, 9 minutes on foot to where Collier was sitting – and nobody saw a thing?
C, this really cuts it, doesn’t it! Indi, what an amazing piece of information….my hair is all twisted up in conspiracy type knots just thinking about the possibilities….wow is so right.
Yes Coach and Missie, it is unbelievable, isn’t it?
I know I’ve only just returned but I feel this one needs a wider audience. Just incredible. I will sod off for a bit and cobble something together for a post.
tweet, retweet again and again and ask for RTweets. And delete some of your tweets that don’t support your image if you want to be taken seriously. Also get in touch with emptywheel.
Indi – I have fallen in love with you. Thank you so much!
This was a really informative series. These reporters are asking the same questions.
http://wgbhnews.org/boston-marathon-bombing-6-month-anniversary
C: Thanks for these links, I can’t believe WBGH is digging around in this….
Here’s an excerpt from one of the articles on the link:
WGBH News requested officer reports from Watertown and the MBTA based on the state’s public records statute. Both requests were denied, we were told, due to the ongoing investigations. WGBH News is appealing to the Secretary of the Commonwealth for access to that information.
I find the above information to be kind of amazing–these records are being withheld–maybe because there are about 20 different stories floating around.
Anyway, very interesting this issue of self-deployment and how it adversely affected events that night, and how it possibly led to the shooting of Officer Donohue (if you believe his shooting was an accident/friendly fire, because I’ve read he should never have survived, and he isn’t reported to have been caught in a lot of friendly fire, bur rather just the one shot that should have killed him immediately.) It suggests that in fact our LE troops were so fired up, out-of-control-they were heading out to the scene of the gun-fight possibly primed to do battle. What this suggests about the training and discipline issues for some portion of the LE carrying weapons with a license to shoot if they feel threatened–it should give one pause.
Here’s the rest of the WGBH article below about the self-deployment….and wasn’t there a similar reason so many firefighters and LE died in the twin towers, because the engine companies all took off to help in the effort, and communication systems weren’t working? I seem to recall reading that the rush to the site of the 9/11 events led to more confusion, because all sorts of companies just headed to the site to help. (I’m not faulting them, just seeking confirmation I am remembering this correctly.)
The issue of officers self-deployment in Watertown is being discussed by Homeland Security. Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas and Deveau recently flew to Washington to meet with Homeland Security Sec Janet Napolitano. Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas spoke to WGBH News about the content of that discussion.
“And one of the issues we identified during the course of that conversation was the notion of self-deployment; this appetite, this thirst for officers wanting to get engaged over getting involved, but it also can cause an additional complication in terms of having officers respond, not having a structured hierarchy in which you can actually start to relegate or delegate people in terms of how you do things,” Haas said.
Dont you remember on the scanners how there had to be 20 or 30 backing up the dispatcher getting clearance to go to Watertown. Not everyone was given permission. So I am not sure what exactly that means just yet.
Nor do I, but it seems important in the context of all that occurred that night, because all the confusion led to what appear to be less than desirable outcomes in capturing the suspects alive. I also wonder if the “car chase” that night wasn’t somehow related to the 7-11 robbery events and not the bros? No way to know, but it was reported evidently by AP and picked up by every out media outlet. Just speculation, of course.
Have you heard from BB?
Hello Coach. BB’s busy…… :)
That is a good thing! Another hot article coming out. ;)
…and more besides…
hope she is being careful…
Worry not.
The thousands of comments you have brought to this place should have been on your blogs at forum. I can’t stand to see such mismanagement.
I guess BB is coming out with great news.
What? I am in the dark.
yes you are – and maybe you will see why….
Maybe you will tell me?
well damn – you knew it wasnt going to make sense – you knew it was going to be another contradiction – I swear there were two BMB’s and events thereafter – the one we are following and the other one that is down the rabbit hole…..Here is the surveillance video of the brothers working out at the gym – and the news report that accompanied it.
The reporter tells us the “The face of the third “friend” is blurred out. And that he was questioned and released.”
What – that is one lucky dude – or we’ve been told another fable?
The reason I was looking for this is I wanted to gauge the size of the dude next to the brothers. He is similar in size to Jahar -(slender and maybe a tad taller?) and he is more skillful on the rope than DT but not nearly as TT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G86NVZPQeZU
So – why would the FBI lie to the reporter about having id’d this guy, interviewed him and released him….
When we find out 6 months later – they dont know who he is – John Allen only speculates they must know who he is now. The reporter did not follow up with a call back to the FBI to see if they indeed knew who it was.
And why are they showing his face now? Tips?
C: I’m wondering what the two Russians with backpacks looked like who were detained and released at Niagara Falls around the BMB
And weren’t there two Russians who were plotting to plant explosives on Canadian trains right after the BMB–like 30 days or so–who were caught and the plot foiled?
I must admit the third man with the bros does look more Eastern European. Also, I meant Mom T–has she ever commented on the face of the third man at the gym with the brothers? I find it doubtful that Kat T would wish to be involved in any way–she is already under suspicion by LE. m
This was reported on April 23, 2013.
That quickly got up to 12:
DT, TT, IT, Friend.
Naked Man
Look-a-like
Suspect 1 & 2 at Adams and Mt Auburn
Suspect 1 & 2 Niagara Falls
Suspect 1 & 2 Canadien Train plot
Whew – I googled last night something like terrorist plot at BMB – there was 8 solid pages of articles on the 12 member cell they were searching for. And within two days it was gone?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/23/world/americas/canada-terror-plot-thwarted/
Hmmm, the Canadian Train Plot was another one exposed “in cooperation with the FBI” for an event planned to occur much later. And supposedly the train was to be derailed at Niagara Falls. I need to find that Niagara Falls arrest and release info article again. Meanwhile, just checking photos against TT’s “brother” at the gym for curiosity, he was neither of these two men in the Canadian Train Plot, based on these images at the Daily Mail (sorry, S)
(also, C, the “brother” at the gym has remained in hiding–possibly to stay safe from the hatred directed towards the Tsarnaev, or possibly another reason, we don’t know.)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313517/Canada-terror-plot-First-picture-Chiheb-Esseghaier-revealed-Toronto-Muslim-leader-tipped-authorities.html
I hope you don’t mind that I’m stepping in and it may be irrelevant in your investigation but the gym waiver that IT signed in 2009 has a Western Maryland telephone # I attached the picture. Address can’t be made out by my eyes but its worth playing with..
Maryland indeed……….
Greetings Saunders:
How do you get Maryland? I can barely make anything out.
EDIT: So, I am guessing Maryland area code? 2009 – hmmm?
Don’t know if Truth Serum is making the inference here, but Mr, Todashev seems to have been a very rootless, mobile sort of fellow–Md (DC perhaps?) Boston, Florida, plus travelling around for bouts, according to John Allen, the Wai-Kru coach/mgr/gym owner. Maybe Mr. Todashev knew about more than the Waltham murders and the Boston events, could that be a possibility?
‘cease and desist’………..?
Indeed coach, West Maryland, Hagerstown. It’s a mobile (cellphone) number.
http://www.spokeo.com/reverse-phone-lookup/search?p=2403103476&g=phone_A1757953428
Rest assured TS – no one here minds at all a legitimate seeker. Thank you for your contributions.
Coach – I have the same problem with uploading the images, but there’ll be a way through.
S: Is this what you needed from me? A screen capture? or something else, I’m finally back to my laptop for a few hours. Please advise. M
I have to say, S, I see a face, a shoulder, and a light-colored hand on the ground/pavement, with bent knees in the Kitz pho I just posted above. m
Thanks M.
This is as good as I’ve seen.
with adjusted contrast and brightness
Thanks Renny. I sometimes struggle with the images – my eyes weren’t built for it. Much appreciated.
No worries. I was struggling to see him in the pic posted above. So, I tried adjusting it a little. Glad to help.
I have to say you got the cleanest image out of all us futzing around on photo editors – do you mind if I put this on the blog?
No, I don’t mind. That’s why I put it here, so that you can use it. Just my little contribution to your great effort.
Think how great it would be if this were posted as a comment under the post it was talking about and one could see the images you are referring to. You need to fire missy and get another boss.
A good post I read on internet. Has anyone ever heared about Medet Unlu, a chechen activist who was killed days after saying he believed the brothers were innocent or New Hampshire state legislator Shella Tremblay who was “bullied” out of office after saying the BMB was an inside job?
Worth the read:
http://exposingtruth1.tumblr.com/post/56625958146/letter-in-support-of-the-justice4jahar-movement
thank you Pat – More references to Chechnya – ?
Coach, do you mean ref regarding Medet Unlu? If so, I came across this:
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/05/23/17814.shtml
I admit not knowing much about this as I only read this today;
I was asking rhetorically…LOL
Thank you
I will read!!
C & S: Sorry, busy today, is this what you need? M
C or BB: has anyone asked Mrs. T. who this person might be? Does she know him?
thanks I have it now –
not sure I know what you are asking regarding Mrs T – ie., aka Russel, or his mother? Why
when you get time listent to that tape from Truth Serum – its pointing in the same direction we have been wandering in —LOL
Compare?
not saying – jes asking?
THe deceased Sunil was fairly tall, wasn’t he?
Here is a link to a photo of Sunil -non smiling. The man at the gym is at least 35 years old. Not a match. Sunil had a mole, as you see in the photo you show. Man at the gym does not appear to have a mole,. Man at gym has a muscle pattern around his upper lip which Sunil did not have.
http://kwgn.com/2013/04/24/police-body-found-in-river-may-be-student-falsely-accused-of-boston-bombing/
Yep Adriaen. I don’t think that is Sunil as well. But as a good investigator, Coach throw the possibilities all out there.
I didnt follow Sunil that much. Does anyone recall seeing how long his body had been in the water?
I recall that the question was asked, but that there was no conclusive answer. Mr.Tripathi had been missing for a month prior to the marathon, if I remember correctly.
A – you recall how long Sunil’s body had been in the water? Seems an odd coincidence that he would go missing for a month and then accidently get heard on scanners and then 2 days later turn up in the river?
The phrase “for quite some time” is all I ever found on that…nothing more specific. The state of decomp was also vague. Remains were not immediately identifiable. You have listened to the scanner recordings. Did you hear his name during the Watertown spectacle?
Thanks for the link. To me, these are two different men.
Picture of the third person at the gym….who is he???
http://wgbhnews.org/post/allston-gym-owner-talks-about-former-regulars-tsarnaevs-todashev
Darn good question – Tamerlan introduced his as his brother also…..? Wonder if this guy was mistaken for Todashev?
EDIT: BB, Missie – can someone get a screen shot of this guy?
I have one – got it a couple of weeks back, the first time I saw the character without the face blurred out. Not a fellow-athlete.
this is what I was able to do with it
EDIT: photo not saving to blog for some reason. I’ll try later
Hello Saunders – have you been able to clean it up a bit? Can you post it? For some reason my isnt taking to the blog???
Scratch that – I pulled it. Here it is cropped and blown up
???? Nothing attached to your post cropped and enlarged? What what it? M.
Wow – this is really interesting. Missie/BB/Saunders et, all take the time to listen to this.
C, Did You hear that the gym owner said the boat was close to one of IT old apartments? I don’t know if that is accurate though.
Yes – I didnt see “apartments” like I on the west coast would assume are apartments.
But Kitzenberg lived in an apartment and he was on the third floor. I think the east coast definition is or can be interepreted as a multi residence dwelling – ie., big house lots of rooms – share bathrooms etc.,
Having said that – the places on Birch look like big square dwellings – the home next to 67 Franklin is a big square dwelling – easily any of those big dwellings could be apartments.
So – we’d need an extra bit of information to point us in the right direction.
INTERESTING THOUGH……
C: sometimes a people search will turn up old addresses….but even if it’s true there is an “apt” type house on Franklin Street where Todashev once lived, and DT knew about a boat where he could hide in the backyard, what would that tell us? Probably depend on how recently Todashev lived there, and I thought the GF of IT said he hadn’t been living in Boston since 2010. (could he have needed a place to stay when he went back for fights under Allen’s direction, and stayed with TT and KT in their apt. after mom and dad T moved back to Russia? possible, I suppose.
I did several searches on several engines and nothing. I could only find his Florida address. In some there is reference to his death already.
In the gym guest sign-in, there was mention of 412 Norfolk Street, and one other…I can’t quite remember. These were people who TT signed in as guests. One was IT, couldn’t make out the other one. But, it was 2007-8.
In MA, an apartment is just a home that is not a full house – it doesn’t have to be in a large apartment building. I believe Kitzenberg was in what we call a triple decker – three floors, each is a separate apartment (usually with 2-3 bedrooms). There are apartments – duplexes, triple deckers, etc. – all over Watertown, including in that neighborhood. Does that help?
Naked guy perhaps?
It makes me crazy how the gym owner trusts the investigators so blindly. “It is incredible that they figured it all out! They must have known something to push IT to confess it.” Grrrr. I am like: “What!? Have You ever heard of coercive interrogations? I mean, the men was shot in his own living room!!!”. How can people be so uncritical? I mean, I do think I am naive sometimes, but this is really blind trust what this guy shows… it is almost religious.
Ah – its as far as he has thought of this – thats all. We could show him our information and change is mind in a minute…What I wanted to ask him was did Tamerlan ever come in with a friend or friends before? This third guy though is what we have been sniffing for a while now. I’ve seen that video 10x’s and never put that together. I just figured another dude working out.
Wow – this is getting close to explaining why the search of Watertown.
Todashev lived in this neighborhood or close by
Todashev had a “posse”
a third dude shows up at the gym with the bros
there were early reports of the FBI looking for a cell of 12 – TT, DT, IT, this new “brother” – that leaves 8 more to go – How many guys were detained, arrested in Watertown that night?
6, 7, 8?
The FBI knows for sure who that guy is by now. Do You think the guy could have been in Watertown that night as well? The one in front of the car lights?
The gym guy does not make it easy for Todashev’s father: “I can definitely see that happening, you know, he having to be shot that many times.” I can’t. I find it a shame that with so many people in the room, even if he reacted, he had to shoot him. It does not make any sense to me… it is just plain wrong.
I should sign in, so I can correct my misspellings and add infos like You do, C.
I meant, I don’t believe people find it normal that the investigators “had” to shoot him 7 times.
Dzhokhar, according to the mechanic who had his car, often came in with a group of other guys, He also brought him many different cars for repair.
What was your impression of the garage and its owner ? Am I correct in thinking that the man with the shades and tattoos was presented as the owner of the business ?
BB where was this picture taken – reason I ask is there were several other “find” that night reported on air. This could be one of them or it could be the 15 Vasser call?????
EDIT: Okay – this is 15 Vasser and it is slightly to the left across the street from Stata where Collier was sitting. It is conceivable a bad guy could have have existed here, tossed the gun across the street and proceeded down Main…Another piece to contradict the narrative.
That’s why I stuck it up! I went for a quick walk down Vasser on google stmaps, which actually took nearly 2 damn hours because my old computer hates it and is so slow on maps! This is 15 Vasser – the officer found the gun and as you said immediately after this location is given ( although you remarked it may not be same officer ).
Hence in this pic they are looking for the gun. And there are 3 of them there all paying attention to that small area whilst the one at the back looks like he is calling the two in the distance to come and take a look.
Is this where they found the gun????
You know those scanners like the back of your hand.
C’mon C – we can do this.
well it adds up. One way to tie it in beyond a guess is to get a time stamp on the photo. Anything reasonably close seals it.
Nothing doing on the metadata. Grrrrr
where does the pik come from? this is to early and to close for the press ?
It was on a chinese web site. Best guess – student.
did it show up in a chinese news story?
Are you near a library that you can go to for this stuff. Their connection is superfast.
Query: Is it accurate to state: a) we believe Kitz’s photo shows a third person in front of the Mercedes SUV, and b) Officer Coloro’s statement supports that Laurel was a very dark street (on O’Donnell’s interview with Watertown officers,) and c) the bros were 90 yards from the Watertown cruisers–Kitz said as much as 80 yards & Google shows 90 yards, meaning neither group saw the other very well except for the bros being highlighted against the Mercedes headlights–which I believe they left on because bros themselves could not see, and d) Scanner reports Coach has transcribed make reference to a 3rd suspect-although I don’t know the exact context and can’t be sure who says or why it is said, and e) DT goes tearing off in the SUV on Laurel which becomes Spruce when it crosses School only to abandon the SUV almost immediately at Lincoln and Spruce in the middle of the street, and f) DT is found in the boat hours later on Franklin, which from Robin Dumas’s contemporaneous interview with Diane Sawyer we learn was searched by LE–she says she saw them in her neighborhood with flashlights and she is 5 houses down from Henneberry’s house where DT found in boat, and g) there was a report of a businessman finding blood behind his business in Watertown….and there could be some other facts I’m missing in this string. Does all of this support the strong possibility there was a third person working with the bros–a third person who may have had a gun, who may have been in the car with TT during the carjacking, who met up with DT in the Honda? Certainly there were media reports (although nothing conclusive, just speculative) of a 3rd suspect.
a) yes –
c) Mercedes is parked under a wide radius street light –
d) Officer on scene describes chase of suspect in white t-shirt running through backyards and “things are out of control, they are firing their weapons”
e) eye witness describes Mercedes coming down the street at high rate of speed – leaves the ground momentarily as it climbs small rise in the road and turns on the Spruce – witness thought he was going to lose control.
Continued e)
officers in pursuit report they were being fired on – explosives, grenades. They crash or run their vehicle into a backyard for cover. Officers call for “long guns.” Minutes later backup arrives and the vehicle is abandoned. officers are told retreat until bomb squad arrives.
continued e) – there is considerable property behind 67 Franklin and it appears it is only seperated by a chain link fence. Cant get close enough to see if there is gates or openings. I imagine there is. Poking around back there though shows some abandoned or empty buildings and cars. Certainly enough places to hide. But if, he hide back there why come back to the boat?
g) yes – we have batted this possibility around for a while now….I think there was a third suspect with them – and certainly several others – related at the 526 Mt Auburn site.
News keeps coming. Tatiana is out.
“”The former live-in girlfriend of Ibragim Todashev has been deported and has arrived home in Moldova””
http://mobile.boston.com/art/35/metrodesk/2013/10/15/girlfriend-slain-tamerlan-tsarnaev-friend-deported/jINNP1JjsSPKPCR74vvhKJ/story;jsessionid=D3F1214FB7E67DE19D145D4366928E5E
Nobody in authority was available to comment due to the government shut down…..
I hope to god that girls spills her guts right now. All the gory details plz, Tatiana, you were treated appallingly.
They may be paying her a stipend to keep quiet that could stop if she did.
Wheel’s take, or question:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/10/16/us-deports-ibragim-todashevs-girlfriend/
She also published a new article on the intentions hidden behind HIGs:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/10/16/how-to-evaluate-the-hig-exploitation-dead-bodies/
Havent tracked enough of this yet to have a legit opinion – but my layman’s take on it is – I wonder what how much value, a 19 yr, untrained, pot smoking kid presents as a research subject – but he is certainly a candidate for coerced confession and/or knocking him over the edge. Fascinating to consider they may achieve their objective of silencing him forever – without a real trial. Then they can roll him out every ten years or so like they do with Sirhan Sirhan – to remind us he is still a whack job dreaming about the girl in the polka dot dress….
Yes C, it breaks my heart.
This was one of the comments in EWs blog… unfortunately, the commenter is spot on. BB wrote about this in the blog as well… about the probable coercion and etc.
How do these “people” sleep at night?
Like babies. In their arrogance they believe what they are doing is right and they have the full backing of all the others they work with too. Makes you sick.
BB – here is a graphic map of MIT and its pretty clear no car could have gotten there behind him. The only way someone would have been able to sneak up behind him is to have come up Vasser, seen him and kept moving on to Main then swing around “76” on the map and – where he was parked that was a blind spot. He wouldnt have seen anyone coming.
Whoever did it – must have feared Collier was coming after or calling in backup.
http://whereis.mit.edu/
I don’t get what you mean. I said down thread they would of had to of parked up somewhere then walked around the back of 76 (the Koch building). Are you suggesting the same or something different?
just agreeing with you – and pointing out this map is simple to read and you can see it immediately – unlike the google map
I got you.
None of this is working for me. Who abandons their car at such a far distance knowing they are about to shoot a cop? The risks of being caught/seen are too great. A quick in and out is what’s needed – not wasting time to furtively prowl around the outskirts of nearby buildings.
Unless of course you could see the car from the building you were working in and approach from the rear….
it is 9 minutes by foot from 750 Mass Ave-
to Strata where Collier was shot.
I believe LE initially were operating on the premise the bad guy skipped down Mass Ave – turned left on Vasser and encountered Collier. It makes some sense that the bad guy might have freaked out and whipped around – done the deed. Grabbed the gun and started heading back down Vasser or threw the gun when he saw the blue lights heading right at him on Vasser. He is seen by a witness – and high tails it down Main where he is seen by a Marriot Bell hop.
Which dude are we talking about here? 7/11 man/black male/or Hispanic guy? Maybe worth creating another map here to visualize all the places. We could also work out a likely route.
711 and Hispanic guy are the same guy – black guy was from another call altogether.
Oh heck – I am sorry – 750 Mass Ave is the 711. Thats why everyone immediately thought the connection – and you had two witnesses who described the 711/Hispanic guy along the route I just described.
Up ahead of the Marriot was the Red Line – and the Longfellow bridge. Thats why they had guys in the water – and guys all over those train stations. They were following the 711 suspect thinking he was connected to Collier – and the coup was when they BOLO’ed the 711/hispanic twice – before Danny changed everything around.
And yet Middlesex county sets up an arraignment hearing for DT, as if none of the original evidence (including many reports that Collier was responding to a disturbance-it was all over the early stories) has any validity, or is even to be considered. One might argue that they are going through the motions to pacify the family, but that makes no sense–the killer (s) should be apprehended. Have we seen any information about the 7-11 wanted poster—who we all agree looks like you-know-who, but that’s senseless as well because if he had a mission, why call attention to himself by robbing a convenience store? BTW, I don’t believe the wanted poster individual looks Hispanic..even his clothing choices seem off. How much info has anyone seen on the 7-11 story, witnesses, etc. And “IF” Danny didn’t change everything, but was right there where he was to be, does the timeline/location for the highjacking make sense? (course, who robs a 7-11 driving a Mercedes SUV? I think there was a movie about that many years ago–Fun with Dick & Jane?)
Interesting about the “disturbance.” Just as the MIT scanner gets started, dispatch picks up a call. “He” the caller had heard loud banging like garbage lids or something over by the Stata building. He then says he sees an officer parked on the sidewalked next to Stata and wanted to know if anything is going on. Dispatch brushes him off and says he look into it. We dont hear any call before that regarding the disturbance nor does Dispatch make inquirey who the officer is sitting there nor reports to anyone about the loud sounds.
the scanner just moves on…until about 8 minutes later at 10:30 pm the distress call comes in “officer down.”
So – we dont know if he was responding to a disturbance or not. I have heard also that he wasnt responding to a disturbance – he was simply sitting there watching traffic.
Danny’s hi-jacking occurred sometime before 11:00 pm
Colliers call came in at 10:30 or 10:31
The call for the 711 robbery came in right at 10:20 or so….
So – the sequence from 711 to Vasser/Main and then to 1001 Cambridge is doable – but incredibly hurried and I am not sure they could have done it with a car. Where the hell do they park that Honda – close enough to Collier – but unseen so that they can sneak up on him?
The 711 dude makes 100 x’s more sense.
EDIT: but literally after that night – all that you hear about the 711 guy is the disclaimers from everyone the brothers didnt rob the 711….I recall little or nothing about any follow-up from the press looking into the 711 robbery and the connection to Collier.
Hey both of you go to email
I’m still curious about the gun.
What were they looking for here if it wasn’t the damn gun? An ‘active shooter’ somehow cowering in that spot? Me thinks not.
http://i.imgur.com/4XMN3RH.jpg
EDIT: the reason I ask is there where several “finds” reported on air that night.
Hey where was this taken?
I don’t want to rain on your parade BB but you are too busy looking at the sand with your microscope. IMO you need to be hooking up with emptywheel and Jane Hamsher and working with them. They could really use you and you could benefit from them. It would be a wonderful way to get a new computer!
What if Collins were assassinated so as to have a way to hang it on the Tsarnaev(s)? Then if the bombing were fabricated, they would have a real murder, a real victim, and a real killer/criminal that they could hang. Struck me very odd that they would have that huge memorial service for Collins. Pure SPECTACLE. He didn’t die in the line of duty. He was shot pretty unawares until the last minute.
Sorry this is off thread. But Wheeler was written up by Newsweek. She goes at something sort of the way you are. http://www.newsweek.com/how-one-woman-discovered-dragnet-surveillance-snowden-exposed-it-220 Nice company you keep babe.
BB see my post down below.
Can you believe this? Carmen Ortiz et al today filed a motion AGAINST the defence application made a while back asking for more time to prepare their death penalty defence! After all they’ve done – by not providing the documents the defence requested etc!
The reason given by Ortiz and her henchmen is that they are in a bit of a hurry – Holder is meant to be making his decision before the 31st Oct.
“”Assistant U.S. Attorney William D. Weinreb filed papers today opposing Tsarnaev’s request for more time to present his reasons against imposition of the death penalty. The government had given him and his legal team until Oct. 24.
The firm deadline was necessary, Weinreb said, so his office could then make a confidential recommendation to Attorney General Eric Holder by Oct. 31″”
http://masslawyersweekly.com/the-docket-blog/2013/10/15/lawyers-ask-for-judges-help-on-tsarnaev-death-penalty-question/
I’m speechless.
This woman is dangerous. She is meaner than any monster in my most terrifying nightmares.
This is the way I’m reading it at the mo. Those documents are damning. Todeshev’s murder is in there, TT dealings for the last few years – they’ve refused to hand them over, ergo they don’t want them out. What better way to prevent that than not give the defence long enough to fight for access to them?
Calculating.
….’not to be disclosed to the defence’…..
I know, I know. What an eerie parallel. So much time has passed since then, but here we are again, many years later and still on the same sick merry go round. It makes you feel useless.
It’s supposed to make you feel useless so you will give up.
……all the more reason to keep going…..
Did you see this one. Excellent, excellent. This is what you need to do> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46
They’re scared, but that’s when they’re most dangerous. I sense they’ll stop at nothing.
It’s just barnyard rooster posturing. It forces the defense to answer it.
Welcome to yet another ‘Ministry of Futile Paperwork’….
Exactly.
Why would you even raise your eyebrows over this. It is standard procedure. They are creating a mountainof paperwork to be shuffled back and forth to keep each other busy and to increase their payout.
Very slowly……getting a bit more of the 3rd man. Hoodie, right hand/arm up to his face/eyes. (from the headlight glare ?)
Strongman to his left looks to be wearing a light-coloured ballcap with a dark patch. He’s wearing it forwards. It’s not a white driving cap.
Wow, S, are you working on this and going to blast us away (unfortunate word choice there) with something amazing again? And at least, thank you baby J, not another backwards white cap. When are you going to past this? Most important question, do you see any writing on the 3rd man’s chest, such as ADIDAS? (wishful thinking.)
Nah, nothing as spectacular, just getting a bit more of the general form. Definitely the right size, shape, proportions and positioning. Could still be a mirage, but the thing is getting a bit clearer. The figure is smaller than the strongman. Could you possibly send the best quality version of that shot ? I’m just hoping that you have one in better condition than those I have. You’re good at getting at higher-res versions than I can find.
This is the kind of thing I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46 rather thatn the way you all are approaching it.
Before I call it a night, I’ve just been looking through some photos of Watertown and the abandoned car (photo #1) and noticed that the photo I have labeled “Spruce & Lincoln” (photo #2) showing a damaged SUV, presumably a Mercedes, with cruiser lights flashing around it, isn’t actually where DT abandoned his vehicle. Instead, he chose a quiet residential street, Lincoln and Spruce actually looks like Photo #3. In fact, DT had to cross over School street to continue on Laurel which becomes Spruce at that intersection. He could have turned left on School (evidently no cruisers were chasing him yet) and in a short block been on a main drag, Arsenal, which was the way out of the neighborhood. Instead, he continues on Spruce to Lincoln, and for whatever reason, gets out of the car (I believe recall reading car had a flat.) Curious why he picked that intersection as distinct from any other intersection? Did he know someone in that neighborhood?
In any event, the photo I’ve been told was Spruce & Lincoln is a retail area, but it also appears to have an SUV–Coach, it appears it was the scene of something…do you know what? (I didn’t decide Photo #2 was Spruce & Lincoln on my own, it was labeled as such in a Watertown article, I would have read within the last few days, as the location DT abandoned the carjacked Mercedes SUV, and such a vehicle appears to be there in the photo.) Thoughts?
Hey – the new article on the Blog by abs has got some factual inconsistencies. Abs? I don’t remember reading he had 16-17 bullet wounds? Anybody know off the top of their head? And isnt it his left arm that was in a cast and wounded badly? Who put the gun in his mouth? No one doubts those injuries – but isnt that a bit of a speculative leap? Shouldnt we be striving to keep our information as straight as possible?
Factual errors have consequences, impacts credibility seriously.
Can everyone please check their emails urgently for the message I just sent?
Thanks.
I’m sorting it Coach.
Check your email when you get the chance.
Finished and posted on the blog the article Emma requested on the black bag.
very cool!
Please consider that your blog post appears to be disinfo based on this pic. Hit the link directly to get as big as will get here. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWpejFhCYAAbJRT.jpg:large
Now c’mon pub serv the one on the right is shopped.
Abs, my feedback on Dave’s pictures: I can tell You that there are many many inconsistencies in what concerns Photoshop logic there. I won’t break it down because that would be a lot of work… and putting work in something that is not relevant in my opinion. But I can tell You from someone that works with Photoshop a lot: no way they photoshopped a bunch of pictures he is affirmed have been photoshopped.
Sorry I lost you. Didn’t know whether you were talking about pub serv accusation of shopping or Dave’s site. Dave’s piks come out of public domain so if they are photoshopped before he got them it was one long helluva job so I don’t believe they are. And I can’t accept the official narrative accompanying the images. Dave’s narrative is pretty simple and straight forward on each one. He is good IMO. But neither of us know the people the way coach, BB and Saunders do and none of them will answer me on Dave’s piks. Why?
As to my blog post being deleted it was inevitable as I am moving out of forum’s official Dominating Discourse. I am quite familiar with this sort of thing which is why I have my own blogs. I learned my lesson a long time ago and I can see deleting coming a mile away. All of my posts on forum are also on my own blogs. I have spent the last weeks promoting forum to help get it off the ground. It doesn’t need me now but my own blogs have suffered somewhat from neglect. I have been fixing that.
Forum needs some sort of vision. “Information is not knowing,” – Foucault. Forum is awash in information – Virilio’s The Information Bomb – applies here. Without stepping back to check the forest around them, they will isolate Forum and it will fall into one of those precious little places conspiracy people collect. When the Boston Bombing goes into forgetfulness land, so will the forum blog as it will no longer be timely and there will no longer be hits. The Tsarnaev brothers will be just as forgotten as Sacco and Vanzetti. This is what I am trying to forestall.
Abs, I guess I was really tired yesterday night and mixed it all up. Yes, you got it, I was referring to serv’s and not Dave’s pics.
I looked again at D’s site and he does use non-shopped pics to get his point through. It is a different (more intelligent I guess) approach than most people that say it was all theater take. Still, after looking at his pics, I still don’t think it was all theater. I agree that there are open questions and he does point out some oddities, but I just can’t doubt that so many people who were there that day are lying.
I mean, there are lots of lies and inconsistencies in this case. So many that the people in Forum are busy all the time pointing it out. But I don’t think that the lost limbs are fake. Until I see real evidence, I will stick to my belief. So yes, we see things differently if You say it didn’t really happen… I think it did.
Have You looked in internet for people that know the victims personally? There are a lot of them out there… maybe that would be interesting to investigate.
ABout Your article on Forum: I think it was an emotional, strong article, which is sure welcome. I would personally not use color to make it more aggressive, because the words are already appealing and the content is strong enough to stand for itself (apart from the minor corrections with the left arm, and I would not write about the mouth wound as that was not sufficiently investigated by people yet), but I personally think the article was really good.
“Still, after looking at his pics, I still don’t think it was all theater. I agree that there are open questions and he does point out some oddities, but I just can’t doubt that so many people who were there that day are lying.”
I would tend to agree with you IF I had not seen The Act of Killing the other night. The Indonesian gangster types who murdered millions of Chinese Communists in 1965-66 when there was a military coup there were interviewed by the wondrous filmmaker Joshua Oppenheimer to do a movie of their “history” that they would recall, plan,act in, and film. Oppenheimer is known for documentaries that blend reality and simulation. Well in this one you end of yourself not knowing what is real and what is not. The killers re-enact their crimes, then they play the victims and they cry and moan and in putting themselves in the others’ shoes are confused as to what they did, what it meant, and the nightmares they continue to have.
They re-enact a killing, raping and burning of a village. The military is there to be actors, the originals are directing it, the villagers only know about it from passed down stories. Well it becomes so real, the villagers are not acting but screaming and crying, the children are traumatized, one woman goes into a hypnotic trance and shakes and sobs, the military aggressors become so aggressive you are sure it will go over into the real thing and so are the villagers, and so are the originals directing it as they are shaken.
So you bring in these staged amputees all made up as they were in the film The Act of Killing, and you have smoke all over, and “actors” screaming, and “doctors” running around and of course you have the real people there convinced it is all real. How would they know the difference. You have a few legs and arms and do they see a few, or many, or limbs all over the place. We are into The Rashomon Effect here: http://twilightirruption.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-rashomon-effect-kristen-stewart-and.html and
I urge you to check this link as it is all Kurosawa quotes and piks of Stewart’s “cheating” piks from last summer.
I am sure these people saw what they think they saw and that’s exactly what they were supposed to do. Emotionally say in front of cameras how awful it was and how bloody it was, and how terrible the people were injured. Now tell me why when Jeff Bauman’s both legs were “blown off and his femoral arteries severed” did they put him in a wheelchair when a gurney was right there – they lied about that – something that would have killed him in ONE minute bleeding to death, and wait minutes before attending to him. The actors were as confused as the spectators, just as in The Act of Killing.
If you think anyone is insane enough to find these people now and interview them and have any chance of getting any truth out of them you are more naive than a child with her hand in the cookie jur getting caught. Not to mention that you would not live to tell about it anyway if they were stupid enough to say anything. Maybe when they are very old and no one cares anymore, they will do a tell all book like JFK’s doctor at emergency in Dallas. Now it’s just info and who the fug cares except crazy conspiracy theorists, right?
As for my over the top blog post, the SPECTACLE is so over the top that anything written about it has to be over the top if it attacks it emotionally. That’s Nietzsche’s advice to writers, which Rand had engraved on her heart, and the root of her success in fiction sales and reality. Another blurring BTW.
A reasoned approach at forum has been wonderful. It has instigated a whirlwind of other writers, posters, films into a spectacular EVENT which is what I wanted to see happen. I think www was the nucleus, but this is why Russ is too late to the party in uncovering subterfuge by our govt. It must be a whirlwind out of control to sabotage what they are doing: The Maine;The Lusitania; Pearl Harbor; 9-11;Boston Marathon; Miriam Carey;Snowden and they are coming faster and thicker lately. And I am not even touching Native Americans who were wiped out on bogus propaganda, (Jim Harrison’s Dalva and The Way Home). Le Carre is right on top of all this and he knows emotional fiction carries more weight and affects more minds than all the non fiction compiled. That is what is wrong with Forum as a lasting place, but it did drive the whole thing in a way that Dave’s site never could. They have made Dave’s site very very front and center.
My goal is to smash the reader in the face – no pun intended – with images and color. Few people read linear accounts anymore. Even novels are filmic. The writing is good at Forum, but it will only ever appeal to a few educated readers willing to plough through and fit it together. The site is laid out like a newspaper. That is its image. No one cares about paper print anymore. People will look at it but not absorb it. And those that do will not go anywhere with it. But it has started the “explosion” that I wanted. Nietzsche again. The whole Boston Marathon bombing and the terrible terrorists who did it is crumbling at our feet. No one believes it anymore except old fashioned die hards. See that video link I sent you on the photoshopping of the bag near the dead little boy. And how do you know he is dead? and if he is how do you know he was not trampled to death? IDK? Do you?
I didn’t get that, that Dave thought they were shopped. Actually I thought he thought they were not. Released too fast and not consistent with the official narrative which he was pointing out.
There is also raw video showing these pictures to be accurate. I will have to look for it and post for you. I have evaluated all of them (and more) and what appears as holy cow that has to be photoshop is actually holy cow they went a little nuts with moulage. Real pictures.
If you would move this over to my blog post on http://occupytabloids.blogspot.com that would help as WWW and forum are not into this. Start with the comments after the opening blog post.
I will most certainly take a look. It may take me a bit to find that video because if I was suddenly organized it would only be because I was dead.
LOL! I was just forced to organize or lose my rent subsidy.
Well if Dave can use some help on this……….????
Marcy Wheeler – emptywheel – figuring NSA out before Snowden: http://www.newsweek.com/how-one-woman-discovered-dragnet-surveillance-snowden-exposed-it-220
I’d like to do some on my occupy blog. Do you want to do them with me there? Email me as my email is on disqus profile.
I also don’t even think the FBI agents look like the people he is pointing out in the pictures… he leaned himself a lot out of the window, like the Germans say, to force some “actors” out.
Don’t get this one either.
See comment above – It was meant for your comment. I hit the wrong person.
So what is wrong with Dave’s piks? Wrong question. What is wrong with Dave’s narrative contradicting the official narrative of the piks?
Actually I did misread what you said.
This is plain ridiculous. If You have some experience with Photoshop, you know that nobody could possible has used the first picture to produce the second one.
And vice-versa: the second picture was not used to produce the first one as well. This is even laughable. You can ask any graphic designer about it.
Well the one on the right is shopped now because I put color in to point out what I was trying to show.
U didn’t say so tho.
Thought it was pretty obvious. LOL
It was. LOL!
http://www.tulip-inc.com/Renderings_ElizabethShrumTulip.pdf Looks like graphic artist have come along way to me!
What’s your experience? When I tweeted this picture I received an immediate influx of tweets by people telling me they could clearly see. Are you aware that an entire fabricated person can be produced with photoshopping?
I am aware of that from the Kristen Stewart “cheating” piks last summer. Not an easy job though.
Indi – please….
Yes C, I got it… that was dumb from me. :/
I will write Abs back and that is all.
This says it’s quite possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomontage
Amazing yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46 You might find this interesting Indi; they show cloning of rails. Not done by a claimed expert but she expresses the general consensus of the world’s population and it’s well worth the watch!
OMG what a difference excellence makes when you watch something like this.
good morning all…
Love the avatar!!
the original…
So, have I missed anything? Oh and can you resend the invites – to join the blogs.
Will do. Very tranquil.
check your email
thanks
Check you email when you get the chance.
Saunders: remember when a few days ago you were asking about profiles of DT, and BB only had the one extra photo, well, here’s a photo taken at the site when DT was loaded into the Ambu….I’ve never seen it before now. Look at how much hair he has here–doesn’t really look anything like that other photo we have of him, also a profile, showing him on the gurney, his neck would stitched-up….anyway, just for comparison.. You have to enlarge the photo inside the lighted ambu window to see him more clearly.
(Coach may be able to enlarge it as well?)
Thanks. One thing I’ve always wondered about is how on earth you are able to discern that level of detail. I know how to interpolate an image upwards, but that doesn’t always improve things. Am I missing something really basic ? (I’m hit & miss with software).
How can you tell if the neck has been stitched up ?
Sorry, S, and I’m totally in agreement on the comments beginning “that spec looks like the number 7”–LOL! I NEVER see anything that isn’t blatantly obvious–someday we’ll meet up and swap buzzy eyes…oh, yeah.
I didn’t mean to confuse–I was actually referring to the first photo below–supposedly taken in hospital. Coach told me it shows that the side of DTs face where the bullet exited was stitched up–that is the line of skin fold we are seeing.
The second photo appears to be a better shot of DT in the Ambu — it may be the one BB sent you, not sure. In it, you can see the injury to the side of the face, which was also apparent in Murphy’s photos. Believe it was Mrs. Peel who advised me that Dr. Odom’s report indicated DT sustained shot to inside cavity of mouth, not just his mouth, if that helps.
Apologize for delay in responding. Hope I’ve sorted out my cryptic writing above now!
Thanks. I remember the Dr.Odom statement. It all makes sense now that I know which photo you were on about !
I have always thought that the poor soul in the upper picture is someone other than Mr.Tsarnaev, but I will have another look. To me, the profile has never looked right. But I will look again.
The scar looks more like an intentional incision than any sort of repair. I know that exit wounds can appear as rips, but this looks to be in the wrong place, and is too neat.
Exactly. The stitches are too far into his cheek. His wound seem to be smaller and right next to the ear.
It was an exit wound. They would of cleaned at all out and cut back any jagged flesh, making it appear larger and more on his face. Imagine the right hand part of that skin flap (left pic) hanging down – it tallies with the pic on the right completely.
I’m not overly worried that we are looking at two different men here.
I analysed that a lot, and I do think it is him…
Some people say it is Tarmelan, because he looks older in the photo, but if You compare with Tamerlan’s photo, than You will see it is not him…
Indi can you check your email please as I have sent you some info. Thanks.
Just read it now and answered. Deal. :)
it’s not D. on the picture, the features of his face more of Tamerlan, but it is not D.
Not suggesting they are two different men, I believe it’s him in both pics. It just seems the stitches go little bit further than necessary. Obviously, I’m not a surgeon, so it might be what they normally would do.
And I can’t see any skin flap hanging down on the pic on the right. So, I was just thinking if it’s not actually an entry wound, rather than exit wound.
Coach: here’s a link for you for contemporaneous Watertown account of events. Note the poster who lives on the edge of watertown stating heard a loud explosion around 1:35 a.m. Someone later says maybe it was a controlled explosion….likely in a suburban neighborhood? Wouldn’t LE collect the device and take it back someplace away from a neighborhood to examine, etc?
Anyway, look what I found there: CNN is reporting the same thing you heard on the police scanners….. can you believe it? at 5:45am morning of April 19th, says Hispanic male is responsible for shooting of Collier!!!! What?!
(course also there was a report on a police scanner a suspect was seen at Trapelo Street in Waltham….hear anything about this?)
BB: check this out as well, please.
And here’s the link to THE HUB….http://www.universalhub.com/2013/cambridge-carjacking-turns-gun-battle-watertown
Also, here’s a photo of Dexter & Cypress, but doesn’t say what time it was taken…..by a Cypress resident night of… Not that many LE vehicles….
I saw the post on the CNN report and am trying to track it down. Whilst I was searching I found something else. Anyone familiar with a scanner report saying the following :
“”The officer was shot in the left hand and belly, and is at MGH. (source: the police scanner that we’re all listening to now, because we thought it might have news about the bombing suspects)””
http://www.universalhub.com/2013/mit-police-officer-shot
I am curious. We’re told C was shot ‘execution style’ 6 times to the head. But the niggling thing for me was that it seemed he called in his own ‘officer down’. How? Shot in hand/belly then head? Seems that could occur if he was approached and saw the attacker at the last minute – a defensive move could incur those injuries whilst sat inside a car.
Also this pic taken from inside the Stata Center on the night in question: I’ve seen it from the other angle but not this one. There is so much wrong with Collier it’s difficult to know where to pick up from again. Anyone?
I will do another image file with all the pics I can source. There must be something in them we’ve not picked up on yet. Position of cars/bodies/responding vehicles – anything. Is that Collier’s vehicle next to the blood staining on the floor? Because if it is it’s facing the pedestrianized area behind Stata and the Koch Institute and not the road. IDK
There ya go, BabyB..
Yes thanks S I have it. Have just made a new image file (which you will not be able to access no doubt!) over at the blog. 40 in total of the Coliier murder scene and search.
Hey – I just emailed these two pictures to you – and blew them up real big.
Thanks – I’ll take a look now. Here is a much better quality pic from Missy’s first post up top (Watertown) and here is a better one of your TT ringer too.
The picture above is Mt Auburn and Melendy in the far ground and Mt Auburn and Lloyd in the foreground….
Ashamedly, I had no idea about the relevance here! Still playing catch up – you guys had about 5 months on me as far as that part of the story goes – shootouts etc. I just saw you posted it recently ( and that mine was a bit better quality) but didn’t know why you went with it. Can you elaborate?
this is where they staged from at the beginning of the night and then later moved back to the Armenian church. – about one block and to the right is where brown pajama boy (face down) was detained for a while – and about 3 blocks down is Adams and Mr Auburn where the 3rd shootout that night occurred and where the two young guys (podstava – Tamerlan – “can you call my wife – the Russian diplomats showed)
I understand. have you come across any others showing this dude?
You just know everybody. And if you studied Dave’s piks I would trust what you said. Tell me.
But I got something here that needs attention…..I had always thought Collier was parked up on the sidewalk near the street…..That is not the case – he is back off the street 50 feet at least, inside the campus. I started going around this place looking for how someone could have snuck up on him from behind – and I am not sure yet. This a difficult google map to work with and I might have to go to MIT to get a better one. Another thing – a week or so after the shooting – PD hauled the Green Honda out here to “reenact” the crime scene. The car was parked on the sidewalk up on Main street according to the one picture I saw. I am wondering if they were reenacting or creating evidence. There is no way there car could have got inside there let alone behind Collier????
I have a couple of re-enactment pics and you just summed up my feelings exactly. I also looked into the ‘sneaking up’ business with maps – I concluded they would of had to of parked quite far away and circumvent the rear of the Koch or the Stata – an absolutely ridiculous proposition when you consider the logistics involved.
I feel the re-enactment was merely an attempt to get there own narrative straight. It was pretty clear the case was going nowhere as far as DT was concerned. How to explain to a court how he did it? They had no idea – whip the Honda on scene and go from there. Playing catch up cover up yet again. I also entertained the idea that they may of caught the Honda on a traffic cam or something in Cambridge but far from the scene. Possibly attempting to get their timings right, because it took them a while to charge DT.
Smells bad doesn’t it. Not a question. http://occupytabloids.blogspot.com
This thing is never going to go to trial. He will be so broken by that time – and they will drag out the time – that he won’t be fit to stand trial. He might even be too damaged to go to prison but will go to a mental institution. He doesn’t have the inner resources to withstand this. Unless he develops them somehow.
There are at least two scanner reports – Cambridge and MIT – the one I transcribed was from MIT. It’s a speculative guess whether he called in his own shooting. The call that came in was later scubbed and so you do not hear the first distress calls – officer down, officer down – and then inaudible, and then moment later again and more inaudible. Dispatch makes no comment to the report – except to report officer down. A few minutes later – officers (I think Cambridge) arrive on scene and are also emotional reporting officer down.
I am betting out of respect for the family his last moments have been removed from public listening.
A call came in from the a local resident who could see officer Colliers car parked up on the sidewalk in front of Strata – wondering why he was there. Dispatch repeats what is reported and says he will look into it. A few minutes later the distress call comes.
As far as the gun. That is reported in the first minutes as officers arrived – the report giving CPR – etc., and then weapon is missing. About 15-20 minutes later as the CP on site is dispatching k-9 units and setting perimeter – an officer reports back he has located the officers firearm – in the next few seconds he (I think it is the same) reports his location at 15 Vasser and that he has a possible witness…I dont recall hearing another call regarding the officers firearm.
Thanks C – I am aware of all the details of the MIT and Cambridge scanners. I didn’t catch the ‘location as 15 Vasser’ though. I recall the call about the gun being found, but not the same officer giving his location. Do you have a link to that particular feed at that time please? I feel a write up coming on already.
On the ‘shot in the hand and belly’ claim. I am wondering if it could be a feed we have yet to come across? I’ve only ever listened to the two. Is there a third that we have overlooked, or exists but is just not out there and has not been released?
What about the positioning on his patrol car? I had ALWAYS assumed ( my bad) that he would of been facing the direction of the road. It seems he was looking out onto what amounts to a massive green field! Nothing doing down there. I thought he was meant to be parked up incognito to catch motorists using an illegal cut through to avoid the lights. There is no cut through in the direction his car was facing. None.
EDIT: I am officially blind. Coach just sent me some enlarged pics – the car IS facing the right way round. Thanks C, and sorry if I caused any confusion for anyone.
I dont know if it is the same guy or not either – the calls came almost back to back though….and it is at about the same time that MIT gave way to Cambridge on the calls as Cambridge was setting up the CP inside Strata 32. links? hmm – its a hunt ?- its on my transcripts in the meantime.
EDIT: I think the only way you are going to scratch that itch is to see what might have been reported in the MIT college newspaper – the Harvard newspaper, or go directly to the MIT site and see if they have any public archives relative to the Collier case.
I’ll have a rummage through and see what I can come up with too.
Why do I believe Boston scanner was also reporting in on Collier? I’m going to check the bible (youtube) and get back to you.
Thank you, this could be crucial. If we can source a scanner that makes reference to a hand and belly wound – that would be dynamite.
Here’s the comment from the girl living on Cypress behind the house where the “pressure cooker” IED exploded on Laurel: says she’s 5 min walk from where DT was captured in boat….
However, while I was sidetracked by the accounts below of the girls who lived behind Laurel on Cypress, and by their own admission a 5 minute walk from the boat capture site where DT was found…remark on that, a resident claims it was a 5 minute walk from her house to 67 Franklin where Henneberry’s boat was drydocked….I wanted to share this.
Robin Dumas, an attorney, lives at 99 Franklin Street per Martindale Hubble. She did an interview during DT’s capture with Diane Sawyer. Here’s the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tMANXfk39I
Attorney Dumas is a well-spoken individual. She details for Diane what is happening outside her house before DT’s capture is announced. Here’s how she says events on Franklin street developed: “It started last night, about 1:45 am–helicopters came over”, when she went to the window, could see Officers moving through her neighborhood with flashlights–very unnerving. (!!!)
* A few minutes after the all-clear was given (when the shelter in place was lifted by Davis,) everyone went outside, (which would have been around 5:30-5:45 per Henneberry.)
*Initially she then heard right away a lot of gunfire, so they were told to go out-(in)side. Then about four minutes later, a large number of LE vehicles came rushing down Franklin.
*There was a large amount of gunfire when they all arrived–then nothing, Quite a good time elapsed until,,,
*She then overhead police outside her windows say the suspect was in the boat, trying to poke holes in the plastic, trying to see out.
*Quite a while later, 45 minutes, more gunfire and several small explosions were overheard. (which must have been flashbangs)
*Then, helicopters left, then an ambulance and big black truck came down the street.
This would have been three rounds of gunfire, which kind of begs the question—why all the rounds of gunfire? Supposedly, the gunfire was triggered because DT poked a hand out of the boat and someone In LE panicked and started shooting, which started other LE firing as well. But during which round of gunfire did this occur?
It’s also very interesting that she states police were in her neighborhood. She says at one point that her neighborhood has many, many sheds and outbuildings and boats–and she was nervous that when LE said they had swept the area, she wondered if they could have caught everything
But I thought Franklin street was outside the perimeter, per Chief Davis? Ms. Dumas lives just five houses from Henneberry. Wonder what PatsysVodka thinks of this after her recalling the story of the Watertown business owner who claims he found blood behind his buildings. (I recalled story after PV reminded me, but I can’t find a link to it.)
Anyway,, here’s a Google capture showing the location of Ms. Dumas house –she’s not at the end of Franklin–and she’s 5 houses from Henneberry’s house.
The red X is where DT dumped the SUV Mercedes, the green “A” is Dumas’ house, the “B” is Henneberry’s house, and the red circle is the boat where DT was captured in Henneberry’s backyard.
And I still haven’t been able to determine where the sharpshooters were stationed in the backyard that would lead to the 50 bullet holes in the side of Henneberry’s boat as shown. Now we have three rounds of gunfire to account for….were the 50 bullet holes from the first round? second round? third round?
Was LE firing into the sky, or what? IDEK.
Here is a photo taken of Laurel street pavement showing the “pressure cooker” site that did explode after being ‘lit’ per Officer Colon and A. Kitz. (1st and second photos)
This photo was taken at 3:15 PM April 19 and posted on Ms. England’s twitter account. It is of her father.
https://twitter.com/shawna_england/status/325734015346802690/photo/1 She lives on Cypress street in the blue house you can see between the two Laurel Street Houses (approximately 58 Laurel or so.) She and her sister also took these next two photos showing the swat fellows on the roof of the shed behind their house….posted at 4:04AM on April 19th, long after DT ran the SUV Mercedes through the police cruisers at Dexter & Laurel around 12:50 AM–say four hours earlier. Here’s the photo she and her sister took and posted to Twitter. (third photo)
As to why these two LE were on the roof four hours after LE saw DT escape by running the police car barricade (sorta) and running over TT…to abandon the vehicle down on Spruce at the corner of Lincoln….Coach, do you have any spidey senses on this one? Relative to more people in the area? Why are these LE aiming weapons at this house facing Laurel at four in the morning? js
Anyway, we won’t assume this was at the Boat Capture anymore, because it wasn’t. (I’d always thought it was)
I also tried to expand the photo of the white picket fence at the side of the street to show the incredible damage sustained by the fence as a result of the pressure cooker IED exploding just about 10′ m/l away. Pretty remarkable–another IED that causes no damage to immediate surroundings. BB–does this confirm our discussion of what the IED with the fuse that was “lit” by TT and thrown actually might have been? Everyone remarked it made a huge explosive noise, as I’ve been listening to first-person accounts.
S: You are not “locked-out’ of the image bank on the Forum site. You are clicking on the Imgur links that BB has posted at various places on the Forum site. BUT the Imgur links are NOT hot/live. You have to cut-and-paste the link into your browser and then the Imgur links work. If this doesn’t work, advise at which point/step you are “locked-out” and we will fix. (are you getting some sort of message telling you “denied” for example?)
Thanks. Sorry for causing a misunderstanding. I use ‘locked out’ in a general sense, more akin to losing the house keys and finding oneself ‘locked out’. I realise now that the phrase may have been read as some sort of accusation. It wasn’t, and I apologise for using the wrong phrase and for any offence caused as a result.
The Imgur links don’t work no matter which way I do it. Cut and paste, typing in directly, the screen just stays blank, with the timer symbol. It’s probably my computer rather than a problem with the site. I did originally ask if anybody was having similar problems, but then concluded that it must be my computer. If I ever have any success, I’ll let you know.
If I want to post at forum I had to download firefox then use it without importing any of my google stuff to it. Strange.
Excuse me. Not post. Just comment. Can only COMMENT with firefox without importing google stuff.
S: No worries, knew exactly what you meant, keep trying if you can, again I was easily able to open. Is there a certain subject or category of image(s) you need? BB may be able to load a smaller file for you to access–because that could be your problem–why you keep getting the hourglass icon, meaning it’s not loading up. (Is this new that you cannot load up imgur images from BB–or have you always had this restriction–it might then be that you have a cookie lockout or some kind of protection on your computer, such as an anti-virus program, that is preventing you gaining access. More details, If you wish to keep working on this–it’s a shame you cannot get into the files
Thanks.
No, it all just stopped working about a week ago. Never had the problem before then. done all the usual troubleshooting procedures, and there’s just no explanation so far.
S: We should try to load up some of her files on Flickr, see if you still have the problem. BB, when you arrive back in the AM, could you do a test load of some of the boat images for S? Maybe a smaller file or maybe put one of your albums on Flickr for him to try that? (If he isn’t able to get into Flickr, then there’s likely a hardware glitch on his system…. or a new lock-out that’s been implemented by the system admins from Blogger that is affecting Forum….) Thanks, will keep thinking on this one. Can you let me know results?
He tried the ‘danny’s merc’ file which only has 7 images in it and got the same thing so it can’t be the size of the file. I will try and upload a couple to flickr and see if that works – if not your computer needs some love and attention S.
Will try it now.
Thanks BabyB. (Did you get my 2 emails ? I sent them within the last day or so).
Please don’t knock yourself out transferring images – you’re busy enough already, and on things that are a better use of your time: though I do appreciate the offer. I’ve had no problems with flickr, but as you know, this computer is ancient and has always been tricky. I think it’s Vista. Drastic action at this end, I think.
Hello Missie.
Thanks for the offer to upload elsewhere, but the more likely solution is some really drastic action at this end. Everyone’s busy with things that are a better use of their time, and this should continue without unnecessary diversion, especially in light of the invasion last week. They’re at it again, by the way.
S: attack boldly with scalpel (or Code revisions) when computers fail to operate as they should….threats to them tend to fall on deaf ears…let us know how you fare!
Nah – ‘Armageddon’ it with blunt force and idiocy. Always a winning combination ;)
I have replied to the trivia about the left arm/right arm Trivial Pursuit complaint. I guess it matters since he is left handed and therefore his left hand is dominant. Now he will have to change dominance and undergo dyslexia.
They don’t like one sentence replies. They want a long long answer. Jenni Maier over at crushable handles them perfectly with sophistry and irony. She plays with them and judos them.
If you all had admin status then you could fix things as they happened. Hard when everything has to move up to the top.
Hello AB.
It’s my computer, this images problem hasn’t happened to anyone
else. Good article: straight to the point.
Tell me what the image problem is so I can help you.
Thanks ab. I can’t find out what the problem is. Imgur just won’t load. No error messages, just a blank screen. Done all the troubleshooting to no avail. The computer’s old and is lumbered with Vista.
Hello ab.
The point that Mr.T was maimed and nearly killed whilst still just a suspect is one worth making alright, but I think that some of the detail may be incorrect. Please forgive me if I’m behind with this, but..
as I understand it, it was Mr.T’s left hand and arm that was the more severely damaged. Has there been more recent information regarding the state of his right hand/arm ?
I remember a discussion over on FDL and Dr.Odom’s pronouncement that there had been an injury caused by being shot through the inside of the mouth, but has there been further information ? There’s a chance that this shot could have been a freak hit from a distance, and each type of shot has its own damage ‘fingerprint’.
Am I behind on this one ?
I’ll change from right to left. Thanks. You shoot someone from inside the mouth on the left side and it comes out his left cheek and shoots part of his jaw, and his skull, his tongue. Tell me how you do that from any distance. How do you get the gun inside his mouth to do it?
Agree with the logic entirely, and with the possibility that it happened that way. However, just as it would have to be a freak hit to have happened from a distance, it would be a freak event to survive a contact gunshot through the mouth like that. I remember this discussion on FDL a few months back.
(I think that you and pv may have been there, if I remember rightly).
Whilst I don’t know much about firearms (thank God), I did get access to some forensics articles (which I’ll try to dig out, if this ancient machine is willing) which describe how intraoral gunshot wounds have characteristic patterns of damage to the soft tissue at and around the point where the bullet entered, and that these patterns are strongly correlated with distance from the gun to the point of entry. The correlation is apparently so strong that the damage patterns are used to characterise the injury as ‘contact’, short, medium, and long range, with those distances defined for given sets of conditions, and to within an accepted margin of error. Contact injuries are very, very distinctive.
What was also of note is that to survive an intraoral (contact) gunshot wound is apparently so rare as to be the subject of academic papers. Also of particular interest here is a paper that describes how murder/manslaughter by this method can be distinguished from suicide. It is often a possibility that is overlooked, but it was shown that the two can be distinguished from one another.
Well that rather explains his extremely critical condition when brought into the hospital and the fact that it was not known whether he would survive. The fact that he was most likely shot in the mouth after he was out of the boat and perhaps as he was being hustled on the ground? It would seem to me that someone did it in a fit of cold rage and deliberately wanted to damage him, kill him if they could, while others probably were of a different persuasion. We do know he got skull injuries from it, jaw injuries, which would mutilate his face along with the soft tissue ones in his cheek and mouth and tongue. No he will never have the same face, nor the same identity. When he stands trial after all this and solitary, he will be a broken young man, with little education, no skills to speak of, a ruined face, a lost identity, and terrible mental problems. He seemed before to not have a religious consciousness and/or a political one either. The soft younger brother of an achieving older brother.
And don’t forget he had immediate on the ground serious medical attention and then a rush to emergency who was waiting for him. No waiting and filling out forms while you die.
Saunders, can you access this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92269391@N06/
It is just a random file I made of 3 pics on flickr. If it works for you I will begin the mammoth task of moving all the pics from the image bank over to flickr.
Thanks BabyB.
This one does work, but please don’t spend time shifting photos, as there’ll be a way round, or through, this particular vexation. Keep at it with the stuff that matters.
OMG. It has kicked right off on the other site. I have never seen anything like it. Russ will surely shut that down within 24 hs.I hav a request. Seems the posters are using pics we’ve posted in the last couple of weeks to argue their point. Can we keep any new pic discoveries off line for a bit and just send them out to the group via email? We all work hard and I don’t want anyone cheapening the effort folks, or worse – stealing.
Thanks.
No sweat there, BabyB.
All piks can be read in various ways. Not to worry. Even if no one sees them until you are ready they will still be read in many different ways.
A trust gap remains between U.S. and Russian intelligence services, former Cold War rivals. U.S. officials said they consider counterterrorism information from Moscow’s bitter conflict with Islamic militants in Chechnya and other parts of the volatile north Caucasus especially suspect.
A little more than three years ago top Boston FBI agent Richard DesLauriers, the same man running the bombing investigation, took part in an FBI operation code-named “Ghost Stories” in which 10 people were rounded up because the United States believed they were Russian spies.
Two of those people, Donald Heathfield and Ann Foley, were arrested in Cambridge, Massachusetts, about a mile west of the house the Tsarnaevs lived in. All 10 were handed over to Russia in a carefully choreographed exchange for four Russians who had been jailed for working for western governments.
From Reuters April 26, 2013 Post (This info on DesLauriers not seen before)http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/26/us-usa-explosions-boston-shooting-idUSBRE93I0GQ20130426
I read about this ages ago. But I had no idea there was a link to DeLauriers. That man is a weasel. What has he been up to? I really dislike him – he is responsible (among others) for this god awful mess.
I have a vague memory of this…..it even spawned a fictional counterpart telly series: ‘The Russians’….
Great catch there – glad to see that you remain on form and undaunted. All for one, and one for all…….
Hi guys, I’m glad I found you :)
Just found this interview with Todashev’s wife. She says Todashev moved to Atlanta in 2010, he wasn’t in Boston in 2011 anymore, when the Waltham murders happened.
http://themonicaperezshow.com/2013/10/12/justice-for-ibragim-interview-with-wife-of-fbi-slain-man/
Well thank you Renny! That is intriguing! I wonder if there is anyway to verify that? If it could be proven it would blow the whole Todeshev aspect right out of the water. And if that happened the implications for the rest of the case are pretty damning. I wonder? Any ideas yourself? This seems really important.
S: Troll just sent you a reply post on the old thread–exactly the same one Troll posted on the blog on note in the boat article–Troll has now changed name. Trolls–be gone, please.
Just been over there. Watching them respond to one another with their own posts that were posted a couple of days ago. What the hell is going on? I like this hotel but there’s no place like home…
Have you experienced anything like this in the past?
EDIT: This just got weirder. The 1st one to besiege us has now changed their name – it is an anagram. This person is now copying some of Ab’s POSTS and replying to the other troll as if they were her/his OWN words.
Just the vile comments on MSM sites where the moronic haters tear into each other full throttle, that is why we needed to move before we were sucked in. I hope S is okay. This Hotel as you call it is fine for our work, C thinks Russ or MODs may shut down our old home–wouldn’t be a bad idea. Sent a note off to PV, hope she can find us over here. Same for Indi. IAE, Russ needs to write a new article. Did you read this site’s post about the BMB rubbishy movie–what next? Has the world gone completely crazy?
Oh the world has definitely gone crazy. I am in a constant state of bemusement at it. S is fine, I’ve spoken with him. It really makes no difference if we are here or over there really, does it? I like this little hangout – it’s peaceful!
So far…..’proceed with caution’ as they say in the driving test.
Absolutely. I’m sat here praying they don’t find us right now! Will check my inbox again.
Noticed we can use some more new material on Forum–can S take down his photo analyses he posted yesterday from our old home and whip up something, or is he going for a bigger splash? Would be nice to have a new post tomorrow–know you are working on bags, (again!) but don’t know if you are ready. I continue to struggle along. C is drafting an opus–don’t know if he has a timeline or not?
Hello GuestDT.
I’m not sure that I can take them down once they’re posted. I’ve no objection to doing so, but Missie is the one who knows how these things work.
If they are on forum they can be deleted by the admin. On www Russ will have to do it. don’t bother him as he might get testy about all of us using his site as our own personal one. He may like the hits tho, so IDK. Just Deal With It as it comes up. Did you see my English lesson yet?
Not yet, still catching up.
Right – I’ll crack on with bags then. I’m writing it for Emma. I think I can probably get it out at some point today.
The bag thing has spiraled so out of control that who can ever know now. When the media jumps in with the first news and images they get control of the Discourse and then all anyone can do after that is play catch-up. Unless we spin it to the stars. We nned to lern to do this fast. Miriam Carey execution was pretty quick on the trigger against the media. We are learning.
gone?
Nice one Guest DT.
Saunders is fine, and undeterred.
WWW states clearly that it reserves the right to remove any post at any time. A request for action has been submitted, on the following grounds:
that the offending parties…
– have been rude and abusive,
– appear intent on obscuring the true content, tone, and purpose of the forum and by extension the WWW site,
– appear intent on stifling and obstructing all contributions other than their own,
– have engaged in vicious exploitation of the suffering of the Richard family, by (amongst other things) posting explicit explicit images of the severely injured child, with captions declaring that the injuries are fake.
It is my opinion that these people are abusing their precious right to free speech, and indeed have contempt for the principle: determination to dominate the forum, ignorant dismissal of, and contempt for others’ contributions, and insulting contributors as individuals.
That some hide behind their locked accounts speaks volumes: plain old-fashioned bullying.
That the opinions they express may not be their own is another matter.
I wish they hadn’t posted them here. There is a site that contests these images so why not just link.
Hi there! Just found You here, happy about it. :)
Ah! there you are! That was the message I was trying to convey. we have moved.
Check your inbox…
Just did S. Nothing in there. Can you resend please?
Something’s going wrong with my email, by the looks of it….I’ll resend.
It’s ‘just’ a coordinated attack…but desperate and idle, IMHO. As you said, repeating themselves, each other, and us.
S: Check out the new WP blog–it’s everything you told me a few days ago we needed. Ask BB for link.
Just delete them. Then they will go away. I do have reservations about the reality of the bombing. But check Dave’s site for that.
How can they be deleted ?
On forum if you have admin status you can delete them. Just go into the settings, pke around until you find out how. Then do it. Or ask missy to do it.
Do you have admin status? Go into settings and poke around until you figure out how. Or ask missy.
Thanks Guest DT.
I am aware of this nonsense.
BB: I just wanted to comment on something that I’ve been noodling over as S has been working up analyses on the Forum photos. The photos that everyone has been dissecting of the victims at Marathon sports on LRForums–never there have I seen any discussion of the images are “fake” “photoshopped” “obviously moved around” because there are no official photographs of that site, and all the victims of the blast are readily apparent in the crowd shots…you can see every one of them standing approx. where they should be.
Now, compare that to the Forum photo–A) Other than Ethan Long–there are almost none contemporaneous to the blast–and we have informal comments LE was collecting cameras, etc. (don’t know how true that is) B) Granted it is post Blast one, so the crowd is moving and more unsettled, but no one questions why the injured (Woolfs, Haslet-Davis, Abbott, Lu & Zhou) are not in the photos released or even publicly available at the site… and C) Most important, if DT per the Crim Complaint was standing by his IED until Blast One, and then ten seconds before Blast Two begins moving calmly West, if the same device was used (as implied by both CC & Indictment–found instructions on Inspire) then both IED would be triggered same way, suggesting TT needed to stand right by his bag at Marathon Sports until 10 seconds before the first blast….if not, why not?
Since there are no images of TT 10 seconds before the first blast—is that absolutely correct, then the IED were triggered by some other means, because 10 seconds on a timer–what if you were blocked in by the crowd–you’d be the first one to lose a leg. I guess this speaks to the remote triggering–does Inspire cover that? And if that was what caused the detonation of the devices (possibly by a third party) why did 1) DT pick such a difficult place to “set down” his bag? (I keep coming back to “why the Forum” there was nothing special about it except the location had at least 3 surveillance cameras trained on it.) and 2) why did he supposedly wait so long to take off and risk so much when TT wasn”t in any photos.
Okay, it is so clear.
Questions, questions…. How to answer? I can only offer my opinion with a couple of small facts I’m afraid!
Woolfs, Haslet-Davis, Abbott, Lu & Zhou etc are in some of the photos – you just have to look hard!
TT and DT would not nesscesarily of had to of been ‘close’ to the bombs to trigger them. LE tells us they were ‘timers’ as opposed to detonators, meaning they had already predetermined the time the bomb would of gone off and set the timer as such before they left on the ‘mission’. There was no ‘button to push’ if you will.
I have always been at odds with them building the bombs as per inspire – Inspire instructions tell you how to make the bombs triggered with a timer, but uses the simplest method of all. A timer based on a small clock that has hands (not digital). You set the timer by placing at small nail through the face of the clock at the time you want it to go off, then connect it to a battery. As the hands of the clock tick around, they make contact with the nail causing a small short circuit – all that is needed for your BOOM.
The photos of the bomb fragments and the LE claim that the timers involved parts from a toy car tells you all you need to know – those instructions about the timer aspect of the bomb were NOT followed from inspire.
TT not being in any photos is telling – where the hell is he?!? And as far as DT waiting so long to take off before the second explosion when he supposedly built the device and knew exactly what it was capable of is again – telling. For me at least.
BB: These truly are, and while we have the Jahar folks Facts scenario, these are such small bits we’ve collected that need to be assembled into a bigger document. I feel like we stumble into neat “doesn’t fit” discoveries and then breeze into the next new, new. Maybe on the new WP we will be able to better capture and display these inconsistencies, along with the more troubling bigger picture items. C should be here soon; where is OG? Ha! That was a funny one.
I know! What a name to come up with.
I like this new home….
S sent you email about that poor man we were discussing (picture).
Coach – the link you provided about Sdoia and the black bag yesterday didn’t work. Do you have another? Thanks.
Lovely.
I’m particularly enthusiastic to live in a society that gives every man woman and child the opportunity to develop themselves to their full capacity. The cowards & terrorists (the Tsarnaev brothers) that implemented the bombing in Boston further show us the importance of vigilance that must be implemented within the United States and abroad. This cowardly act committed by these terrorists was an attack, not just on the United States, but on freedom itself!!!
We must always appreciate the views of others as they continue to explore this philosophical experiment called democracy; although, we must stand strong and know that Internationally we are one-together against those that seek to force their evil twisted dogma’s, false conspiracy’s, and political slavery upon us. If you truly aspire to the values of freedom, then I (for one) would be proud to call you an American; my greatest hope is that you too will become one with us being free to practice your faith and beliefs without persecution or malice.
– Johnny Luckett
Thanks for posting. I read the article and did not see any mention of the fact that the younger brother had his pack using just one strap which is very important. In the surv. video, it shows him walking upright which I would submit is impossible as a heavy rucksack would quickly ride off his shoulder.
They are innocent !
I still find it so hard to belive that the Tsarnaev brothers could have done all this. Thank you for this post!!
http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-shows-up-at-journalists-door-2013-8
A story of pressure cookers, backpacks, Google, a curious 20 year-old and a Suffolk Co. joint taskforce on terrorism. If this is a true story, guess we are all on JTTF lists.
Another thing… the location where the silver-ish looking thing is on the ground appears to be by the Back Bay which is at 867 Boylston. I thought the #2 blast site was by the Forum which is at 755. Can anyone verify this?
We have been led to believe that Dzhokhar’s backpack was the silver-ish thing on the ground at blast site #2. I just watched a video that clearly shows Dzhokhar WITH his backpack on, and that other thing is on the ground. All the photos out there just show his face in the crowd and that thing on the ground. This proves it was not his backpack.
These Brothers were obviously framed. Only and only those can believe in the official story who did not spend 30 minutes of their lives to look at the facts and circumstances of this unfortunate event.
But this is ridiculous to think that a sane person would believe so much BS that has been presented to us.
Think!
If you are a terrorist and you want to blow up a city would you want to let the people know why did you do it?
As every normal terrorist would do?
I guess yes. And you would want them to know this is WHY I did it. Like in Woolwich, London.
But hey, hallo? Is there any statement from the brothers?
Other than shady rumours about they bragged their crimes to a hostage? Which is in fact ridiculous. No one would brag about their crimes to a hostage.
But the people keeps dying Todashev? 2 FBI agents? Tsarnaev?
All dead. I am surprised that the younger brother is still alive… thats a surprise. The guy is strong like a bull. I am not saying he is not involved but thats sure he is not the one who wanted this to happen and I think he didnt even know what was going on… just did what he was told… I would rather know who was instructing the brothers?
The blown up bag looks like its in the street, because the dark and white pavement it’s sitting on suggests a crosswalk or other street demarcation. Its strap remnants do not seem to match either Tsarnaevs’ or the Craft personnel’s straps. Prints, DNA? I guess we’ll find out. Without those types of evidence it seems ambiguous.
DT had a light colored backpack, but it should be pointed out that he had a small black bag suspended from the backpack straps in the front. It looks more like a camera bag or small duffle bag. Does it contain a 30 lb pressure cooker? The picture below doesn’t show him compensating in posture, nor do his neck or shoulder appear stressed. It looks like someone carrying light camera equipment. The web link to this photo wouldn’t post in this box, but it can be found by doing the google search ‘bob leonard’s photo gallery’; it is among 5 images under the link ‘images for bob leonards photo gallery’.
Bob Leonard’s photo
There’s another photo that does show Dzhokhar’s backpack on the ground at the exact location one of the explosives went off, but the photo of the backpack that is actually torn apart doesn’t look like either of the ones the brothers were wearing. So while I do believe there is much more to this case than what we have been told, I think the Tsarnaevs were definitely involved in some capacity. Perhaps they didn’t know what the result of their actions would be – they could have been set up as patsies (like I believe the 7/7 bombers were), but that remains to be seen.
I don’t think it’s a question as to whether they were involved or not. Maybe we can question if more people were involved.
As someone else points out, the backpack that Tamerlan is carrying and the one that the alleged Craft operative is carrying both appear to have a white square. However, the one on Tamerlan’s is actually a small square and the other one is larger and more rectangular; it appears to be a label with something written on it. I am not even convinced that the square seen in the photo of the blown up backpack is actually a feature of the pack itself as opposed to an area where fill is showing through the damaged fabric. Also, if I follow the argument correctly, the alleged Craft operative shown with the backpack is supposed to be the running man shown without a backpack. Does it appear to anyone else that the man with the backpack is caucasian while the running man appears to be African American? And if it is the same man, he has lost not only his backpack but also his cap. Craft and its association with law enforcement are both very troubling. My only point is that your breathless argument conveys the desire you have to see these pictures as you describe them. Cooler minds will not necessarily see the same thing.
Tamerlan has to be implicated in something dastardly, since the evidence on him, as bomber, seems so problematic. Hence, poor Todashev. Say, the g-men offered him a sweet deal: Write a phoney confession fingering Tsarnaev in the Waltham murders, and we’ll let your nice wife and family live a while longer. How bout that? He says nyeht and bang bang bang seven times.
That picture the FBI release of the torn up pack actually does look like the one on Tamerlan’s back in the photo. It was sunny out, the difference in color could easily be just reflection off a slightly shiny material. Furthermore, I see the white band on the shoulder strap in both photos, and I see that little white square in both photos. Sorry Dave, but I think you’re mistaken on this one.
One thing I always thought was weird was how in the days following the bombing the brothers sat around in Boston going about their usual business. If they were really guilty don’t you think they would have high tailed it out of town? They had three days to do so. They could have been long gone to a terrorist friendly country by then. That didn’t quite add up to me, but I just assumed they were that stupid. But maybe not.
I was struck by the differences between the two backpacks in quality and size. Older brother’s is a more serious pack (for hiking, for ex) looks more expensive and does look weighted down in the photo you included from FBI released footage. Younger brother’s is less sturdy, cheaper looking with lots of pockets and almost looks flat in the photo supplied. I agree DT’s bag does not appear to be heavy, based on how casually he is carrying it on the one shoulder.
I also was hoping someone knowledgeable here would comment on the triggering mechanism for the IED. I saw a comment elsewhere that IED are unstable at best–meaning they could self-trigger? And could there truly have been a ten seconds time delay on the trigger (set off by a cellphone?) Wouldn’t that be a rather sophisticated assembly? How likely would one be to get that assembly right on the very first try?
The white bag left near the mailbox is not a backpack. It is a white plastic bag with a brown bag that was placed on top of it and left there by a mystery woman with dark hair and sunglasses. The bag can be seen in an earlier photo behind the barrier, just near the woman’s legs. This bag was clearly not left behind the tree where Jahar is said to have left his backpack.
The Fragor pressure cooker handle is flush mount. The picture shows an indented handle. Also the 3/8″ dia bolt through the fragment is not normal.
The lid on the Fragor is a step lock design the one in the picture is not.
Also the second back pack in the picture is the wrong color, design and size compared to the second brothers in pictures presented.
In the videos notice all the Craft guys around the black Suburban
that pulls up next to the explosion site. Also notice that none of these guys try in any way to help those injured. Even though they are highly trained in trauma med procedures by the military in there Seal school.
Pay attention it’s all smoke and mirrors folks.
Seems rather clear now that the Craft Int’l people were running a drill (or more than one) and one went live. The shots taken seem to belie the official reports and clear the brothers as their backpacks don’t supply the needed evidence: thus the chases, robberies, murdered policeman, etc.
Anyone else think “patsies” and “even worse than the 9/11 drills?”
Reading this fantasy makes me believe that Oswald worked alone.
Yes, its hard to let go of your security blanket isn’t it.
Read Mark Lane’s book “Last Word” and it will remove all doubt about the JFK assassination.
Russ,
Have you talked to the man who lost both his legs and claimed to have seen the guy that set the backpack down right next to him? He said the guy looked right into his eyes. Apparently, he didn’t guess that the bag had explosives, but he was keen to tell police as soon as he came to after surgery. It would be interesting to find out if he recognized either of the Tsarnaev brothers, or whether the man he saw was neither.
As for these two other potential mercenaries carrying backpacks – how cold was it in Boston that day? The one not wearing a hat seems to have on a very stuffed down or fiberfill coat, judging by the size of his right arm/sleeve. Could there be other items stuffed into that jacket that would be hidden by that much padding? Other pictures of the scene soon after the explosions show a lot of people that aren’t bundled up to that extent.
Those where craft guys and yes the big jackes hide the weapons.
He said the guy looked right into his eyes. But Tamerlan was wearing sun glasses, so how could he know that?
I appreciate your bookbag test and, like many others, I’m extremely skeptical of the official story. But I want to point out a couple of clarifications: I don’t know where you got info stating that Jahar’s bag was deposited street side. Here’s the photo supposedly showing his bag at the feet of spectators, not on the street side:
http://localtvwdaf.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/priortobombing.jpg
Also, absence of stress wrinkles could be due to loss of detail when the pics were enlarged. What bothers me about the suspects’ bookbags is that we can’t see any items in the outside pockets–no water bottles or personal items–in either bag. And while I don’t believe that the well-known post-explosion photo of Jahar turning down Fairfield St shows he no longer had his bag (looks to me like it could very well still be on his right shoulder, hidden from the camera’s view), it does strike me as odd that he did not tell his friends or tweet that he had been right there close to the explosions at the marathon.
Just sayin’ . . .
the backpack in that picture is nothing like either of the brothers.
also I wouldn’t believe that photo at all. It shows Martin Richard who was killed but the family has state they were caught by the 2nd bomb trying to get away from the first bomb not while watching in that spot. Plus in another photo floating around you can see that women up front with the glasses running away from the second bomb in the middle of the street. I believe it was the photo the man from Florida took showing Jahar leaving the scene “supposedly” without his backpack.
That pic never made sense to me either with respect to what one article stated, that Martin had run ahead of his father to catch up with his friend, – yet there they are as, you mentioned, all together at the railing, the daughter on the west side of the father, the son and mother on the east side.
Strange the segment of railing they’re up against landed across the street, the father seemed to travel slightly south westerward into the street, the daughter ended up moving backward, slightly north easterward near the tree, and I’m not sure where the mother and son ended up unless it was in the cluster backward westerly toward the patio entrance.
I keep saying the same thing about him not mentioning to anyone that he was up close and saw it all. There was an article where his friends was interviewed. He said Jahar texted him after the bombing to see if he was ok. The friend lived in Boston. I sent that friend a message on instagram and asked him if Jahar also mentioned that he was at the marathon, reluctantly he had to admit that Jahar did not say he was there….
Will D.T’s responses to questions he answered before he was read his Miranda rights be admissible in court?
I heard this stated on live tv, it was not a mis-quote in an article. It is a major inconsistency considering suspect 2 was carrying a mostly gray or white backpack.
“Thomas Menino, the mayor of Boston, said that a significant lead had been provided by video footage recorded by a department store security camera. The footage was reported to show a possible suspect dropping a black bag at the location of the second bomb shortly before the blast.”
Maybe Dzhokhar Tsarnaev didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to have a “black bag” that day.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/17/boston-bombings-investigation-cctv
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Tsarnaev_Indictment.pdf
Under General Allegations; Point 7, the indictment states that the bags containing the pressure cookers were black.
Anybody catch this one? These guys were both members of an elite FBI team that responded in Boston. A little swan dive into the Rio de la Pla… Er, the North Atlantic. http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/fbi-agents-died-fall-helicopter-va-coast
Katherine Russell’s DNA does not match what was found on the remnants of the bomb. Is there DNA from either Tsarnaev brother on the bomb or on the remains of the backpack? No one has asked that question.
Describing the scene after the bombing, he Boston Globe says “The street was littered with shrapnel, nails and ball bearings, and
belongings dropped by fleeing spectators: cellphones and backpacks;
duffel bags and handmade signs with runners’ names.”http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/28/bombreconstruct/VbSZhzHm35yR88EVmVdbDM/story.html In other words, lots of people besides the Tsarnaev brothers dropped backpacks or abandoned backpacks that they had put on the ground while watching the race.
The Truthseeker: Boston Bombing – What You Aren’t Told
Published on May 3, 2013 Seek truth from facts with former Marine Corps officer James Fetzer, editor of Storyleak Anthony Gucciardi, the Corbett Report’s James Corbett, Questioning the War on Terror author Kevin Barrett, Boston eyewitnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcxmAunB4Ck&feature=player_embedded
Wasn’t this bomb supposed to be detonated via a cell phone?? How does a cell phone signal get through a metal pressure cooker?? It’ almost like a Faraday Cage!!
The detonator is presumably on the handle, which controls the opening of the lid, not inside the cooker.
BUSTING IN CAPS IN JACK
—————————————-
An Open Letter to Jessie “The Body”
Ventura and Dick Russell
Friday 24 May 2013
Dear Govenor and Author:
SUBJECT: BOMBER ONE
The bomber in Boston named Tamerlan
was a Russian double agent. An agent
is also known as an asset. An
operative runs or handles an agent. An
operative is an employee of the C.i.A.
A Russian double agent is an agent who
the C.i.A. believes is working for it,
but, is really being run by the
Russians. The double agent has either
been working for the Russians from the
beginning or has been turned into a
Russian agent after having been
recruited by the C.i.A.
In the case of the Double Agent
Tamerlan, the C.i.A. repeated its
mistakes of the 1950s when running
Oswald and the other exmil agents who
pretended to defect to the Soviet
Union. Mark Lane has given an
excellent disclosure of the sources and
methods in this matter. Because of the
high positive correlation between the
mistakes of Oswald’s handler in the
C.i.A. and Tamerlan’s, I wonder whether
Tamerlan’s handler in the C.I.A. is
himself a Russian Double Agent. In any
case, even an ordinary person such as
me, can recognize the pattern or to be
more accurate, signal, that Tamerlan’s
behaviour in South Asia displayed to
Russia’s Intelligence.
—————————————
Pattern 1. Oswald and Tamerlan were
both C.i.A. agents.
p. 33, AMERICAN CONSPIRACIES: LIES,
LIES, AND MORE DIRTY LIES THAT THE
GOVERNMENT TELLS US, Jessie Ventura
with Dick Russell, 2010, Skyhorse
Publishing: New York (N.Y.), New York
(N.Y.), UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
(U.S.A.).
“[Texas(?) District Attorney Henry]
Wade’s source said that Oswald had a
CIA employment number as well.”
Someone named Russell was Tamerlan’s
handler and the name Russell has been
tied to the C.i.A. since the time of
Oswald (p.609, n. 9, McMillan).
If the C.i.A. gives its agents (assets)
employment numbers, then we should
easily find Tamerlan’s handler and put
her or him in jail.
—————————————
Pattern 2. The C.i.A. had ties from
the 1960s with terrorist groups which
were assassinating Soviet politicians
and Socialist and Communist politicians
in other countries, such as Cuba. The
C.i.A. now has ties to terrorist groups
in South Asia that target Russians in
order to drive a wedge between it and
its former republics. The C.i.A. has
been tied to the terrorists who carried
out an attack in Moscow a few years ago
which resulted in the deaths of over
100 people attending a Russian national
performing arts troupe. Tamerlan and
his brother attacked an American
national activity – The Boston Marathon
on Patriots’ Day. The Russians sent
us a message about an out-of-control
C.i.A.
pp. 593, n. 4., 611 and 612, n. 2, and
626 and 627, n. 23 MARINA AND LEE,
Priscilla Johnson McMillan, 1977,
Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc.: N.Y.,
N.Y., U.S.A. (N.Y.).
“On February 6, 1962, The New York
Times ran a UPI story from Rome,
citing the Italian Communist Party
newspaper, L’Unita, which was highly
reliable on Soviet affairs, as follows:
“L’Unita reports today unconfirmed
rumors circulating among Western
correspondents in Moscow that there has
been an attempt on Nikita S.
Khrushchev’s life…the assassination
was reported to have taken place at
Minsk, on the Soviet-Polish frontier,
two weeks ago.” I was in the Soviet
Union the following summer and heard
rumors about an attempt in Moscow,
Stalingrad, Sochi, and Kislovdsk – one
that Khrushchev was grazed on the arm
and slightly wounded, and another that
the bullet missed Khrushchev but hit
the Minister of Finance, Zverev. In
fact, Khrushchev left Minsk for Sochi,
and did not reappear in public for
three weeks, a very good sign that an
attempt on his life had occured.”
Minsk was Oswald’s stomping ground. A
Double Agent from Minsk helping bust a
cap in Jack Kennedy is a very good sign
that pay-back occured. Even if the
C.i.A. didn’t see it, I bet the Russian
Finance Minister did the math and saw
it.
“In a speech on April 19, 1963,
President Kennedy, in what was actually
an effort to soften demands for a new
invasion of Cuba, predicted that “in
five years’ time” it was very likely
Castro would no longer be the ruler of
Cuba and, in the long run, the United
States would be seen to have
contributed to the result. In The
Militant of April 29, 1963, a writer
named William Bundy reported a
statement by Robert Kennedy on April
22: “We can’t just snap our fingers
and make Castro go away. But, we can
fight for this. We can dedicate all
our energy and best possible brains to
that effort.” Read from hindsight,
with knowledge that the Kennedy
administration was engaged in
assassination plots against Castro,
the two speeches, so closely timed
together, suggest that not only
Robert Kennedy and others high in the
administration but also the President
himself were aware of these plots. At
the time, however, no one read these
speeches in that light, the public
question being whether there would be a
a second U.S. invasion.”
Here’s my take: President Obama is
involved in assassinating foreigners
with drones. President Obama has said
that the President of Syria, Bashar
Asad, must go. The C.i.A. discredited
the Secret Service’s ability to protect
President Obama about a year ago by
using a classic “honey pot” in Latin
America. The military industrial
(and intelligence) complex doesn’t like
President Obama for trying to keep the
U.S. out of another war. The crazies
in the C.i.A. are replaying the same
failed conspiracies from the ’50s and
60s. They’ll run a false flag attack
in order to help Obama see the light,
so to speak and then change his
mind about direct U.S. involvement in
Syria. Someone in the C.i.A. is using
the same script from Cuba to influence
President Obama on Syria Instead of
keeping everything on the table
concerning Syria, President Obama
should put the the C.i.A. back in
its box and then tuck it away high
up on a shelf out of reach. Putting
Tamerlan’s C.i.A. handler in jail would
be a very good start.
pp. 77-79, Ventura, 2010.
“MY TAKE: Nixon was involved in a
power struggle with the CIA, trying to
pry loose what their [C.i.A.] files
contained on the Kennedy assassination.
He was taken down by “double agents”
who were actually working for the CIA,
who intentionally got themselves
caught. Many of the Watergate cast
track back to who killed JFK.”
“What if it [Richard M. Nixon’s
obsession with or haunting by his and
Clann Kennedy’s closely connected
political careers] all tracked back to
the assassination of John F. Kennedy
almost a decade earlier? What if the
Watergate backstory is really about
what Nixon knew or wanted to know,
about who killed JFK.”
“Maybe Nixon was determined to find out
what the CIA possessed about the
assassination, out of curiosity and for
his own purposes.”
“Let’s start with a story that H.R.
Haldeman, Nixon’s chief of staff,
related in his memoirs. Soon after
taking office in 1969, the president
called him into the Oval Office and
officially asked Haldeman to get hold
of any and all documents from the CIA
that pertained to the Bay of Pigs.
This was the first of many occasions
that Nixon referred to that historical
event, when the CIA sent an invasion
force of Cuban exiles to try to
overthrow [Fidel] Castro in April
1961…Haldeman makes the assertion in
his book that “in all of those Nixon
references to the Bay of Pigs, he was
actually referring to the Kennedy
assassination.”
Nixon was scared that the C.i.A. might
find a reason to assassinate him.
Ventura is right, the C.i.A. never
forgets. It also knew that Nixon was a
violent pacifist (notice the word fist
in paci-fist) who beat his wife, Pat
and drank too much. Neither did it
forget what he said in 1963.
p. 368, McMillan, 1977.
“It was the Dallas Morning News, which
had a banner headline that day: “Nixon
Calls for Decision to Force Reds Out
of Cuba.” The lead story, accompanied
by a front-page photograph of the
former Vice President, reported a
speech which Richard Nixon had
delivered the day before in Washington,
accusing President Kennedy of being too
soft on Castro and demanding a “command
decision” to force the Russians out of
Cuba. The speech could have been
interpreted as a call for a new
invasion.”
If “Tricky Dick” had seen the C.i.A.
file, then he would have found out that
the Russians had manipulated the C.i.A.
into shutting down its programme of
assassinating Russian politicians and
other anti-American politicians, by
assassinating its own President –
J.F.K.. Nixon would then have cleaned
house at the C.i.A. and started
assassinating Russians, again; some of
whom, apparently, were very good
friends of the C.i.A. This would have
resulted in the C.i.A. busting a cap in
Dick’s head; because the C.i.A. was and
still is incapable of anything else.
Obviously, the C.i.A. didn’t want to
be forced to do the Russians’ dirty
work once again.
—————————————
Pattern 3. The Russians are in denial
about Tamerlan being their Double
Agent and are using much the same
methods as they used with Oswald and
his Russian bride, Marina Alexandrovna
Medvedeva. Or was it Marisha
Nikolayevna Prusakova? How about
Marinochka Ilya Yakovlevna? There’s
also confusion about Tamerlan’s
relations in Russia and South Asia.
His Russian uncle changed his last
name and Tamerlan’s relatives are as
murky as Marina Lee Oswald’s.
Then there’s the Americans named
Russell – sounds sort like Russia.
Could the C.I.A. be so obvious and
stupid using Russia – Russell?
But, unlike the C.i.A., Russian
Intelligence has done something new.
It notified the F.B.I. that it had
suspicions about Tamerlan.
This is a much more effective method
than the cover-up using the Yury
Nosenko defection-countre
defection game of the early ’60s. But,
Nosenko was a necessary part of the
Russian message going back to the
exmil defections-countre defections of
the ’50s which involved Oswald.
Nosenko had an answer for everthing.
He had to in order to assist Russia’s
friends in the C.i.A. Just as in
Oswald’s case, the F.B.I. is being
blamed for not acting on
information about Tamerlan’s
dangerousness.
pp. 17, 18, 19, 29, 44, 48, 64, 65, 87,
137-141, 146, 159, 180, 587, n. 17,
589, n. 3., 590, n. 2, 593, n. 8, 594
and 595, n. 11, 619, n. 9, 623, n. 12,
624 and 625, n. 21, McMillan, 1977.
—————————————
HOW DID THE RUSSIANS DO IT?
The “dangle:” Marina’s uncle.
pp. 33 and 35, Ventura, 2010.
Hypnosis.
pp. 63, 64, and 71, Ventura, 2010.
“Early in 1968, [James E.] Ray “began
writing certain phrases over and over
on paper. These are included in the
F.B.I. file on the assassination.
[Robert Kennedy’s assassin] Sirhan did
the same thing.”
Oswald too, was a prolific writer. He
also had a post-hypnotic suggestion.
“In August 1964, Marina came across
several of her husband’s possessions
which the Secret Service had
accidentally failed to confiscate.
Among them was an English-Russian,
Russian-English dictionary inscribed in
Lee’s hand, “Lee Harvey Oswald, Hotel
Metropole, Moscow, November 22, 1959
(p. 620, n. 4, McMillan, 1977).”
Oswald was programmed to add the 5 to
the 9 and then subtract the resulting 1
from the 4. This changed the date from
22 November 1959 to 22 November 1963
for when Oswald was programmed to
take executive action. It couldn’t have
been 1973 or 1983. Oswald knew this
and that’s why the Russians used this
method. Marina was either a willing or
unwilling Russian agent. Part of her
job was to make Lee insanely jealous by
bringing up her former boy-friends.
She stressed that one of them looked
like Jack Kennedy. When Oswald busted
a cap in Jack, he thought he was
shooting the subject of his jealousy.
That explains how he could admire
Kennedy and at the same shoot him.
Who do you believe, me, a graduate
with honours from MK-Ultra or Nosenko?
Sincerely,
Eochaidh MacDhalaigh OghaChruithne
or is it
Ha’ashkee Dahszii Ya’ai Jii
P.S.: I’m not a S.E.A.L. or Special
Forces. Neither am I an Air-borne,
Ranger, Green Beret. I never
served in combat or over-seas. I’m a
leg; a grunt.
Interesting speculations.
A footnote in Dick Russel’s TMWKTM quotes marina saying Lee was obsessed with the #3 on Thurs. the 21st of Nov.63.
The Dick Russell TMWKTM footnote is a full pg. length note. It is from Ch. XXX “Orchestrating the JFK Assassination”. It is #11 on. pg. 797-98. It details the obsession LHO had with the #3 as he obsessed over the June 1960 Belorussian Bolshoi State Theater presentation of “THE QUEEN OF SPADES”. Accd. to Marina he would sneak away often to attend this particular opera.
The end of the footnote by Russell describes that, “for Richard Condon’s fictional “Manchurian Candidate” the sight of the red queen in a deck of cards triggered the assassin into action. For Oswald, the dark queen seemed to possess a similar kind of fascination”.
Too many open questions… http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_05_24/FBI-used-my-husband-and-Tsarnaev-borthers-as-fall-guys-Todashevs-wife/
How can there ever be too many open questions? LOL! The fascist authoritarians are the ones who want to box everything, tie it up tight, and put it on the shelf marked closed.
That is unfortunately true…
We went through all this photo detailing last summer with the Kristen Stewart so called “cheating” pictures. This is the same analysis that justiceforkristen used on the photoshopped pictures here: http://justiceforkristen.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/the-top-three-most-patently-absurd-rob-and-kristen-breakup-stories-of-the-last-forty-eight-hours/#comments
I have told him about your identical method. Yup. They were set up.
This needs all the exposure it can get:
Uncle Ruslan Tsarni’s Organization May Have Funded Terrorists
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/uncle-ruslan-tsarnis-organization-may-have-funded-terrorists/
Did Tsarni’s Organization fund the Newtown killings also? Isn’t that terrorism or is it not because guns were used instead of pressure cookers. Actually pressure cookers are an excellent metaphor. The state has everyone in a pressure cooker and it ratcheting up the pressure.
this terrorist attack was the latest black ops action from the two of the 3 biggest terrorist groups in the world – CIA, FBI and Mossad. The Tsanraev brothers were low level CIA recruits to infiltrate Chechen terrorist groups to get info about and give support to these terrorists. Unfortunately for them, they were being setup as patsies to take the rap for this CIA/FBI black op the same way Lee Harvey Oswald was for JFK’s assassination.
I’m inclined to agree with you, but to what end? What was the motive for this crime?
It’s all about creating a climate of fear in Americans about Muslim terrorists to fuel the White House/Congressional removal of constitutional rights and guaranteed civil rights from that document. What we are seeing is the early stages of a fascist state being helped along by the CIA/FBI black ops that make Americans feel threatened and thus the move by Presidents and Congress to build up even more the national security state which when it reaches its’ pinnacle will be nothing more than a fascist state. That’s what the elite want and what they are trying to sell us by stripping away our privacy, freedoms and rights under the Constitution.
I can’t help but think that is only a part of it. How many people on the inside are in on this? How did they get so twisted? It just seems like there is something more going on.
look at history…why were kings so ruthless to their own people? why was every government in the past infested with corruption and outright genocide? in the 1900s alone, i could name a crazy dictator from just about every country on earth. “leaders” going crazy and killing people is the norm throughout history…especially when you have a distracted and dumbed down population who get their news from corporations in bed with the very same government behind the atrocities.
There’s plenty more going on that we will never know.
I was going to say something like that but you beat me to it. Jean Baudrillard would label it Deterrence, hiding what you just said. William Burroughs would have said it was setting up scapegoats to institute the fascist state.
And your evidence for all this? You discredit your views by your insistence on their accuracy though totally without evidence.
there is plenty of evidence that the BM was another false flag. You ask ‘what evidence?’. Yeah I’d love some real evidence from the FBI and not more of their lies about what happened on that day. Remember, the medium is the message and the FBI is the medium. Most people, like you, take what the FBI says without question or evidence – it’s just an FBI narrative about what they want you to believe but the evidence for what happened is not there just as it wasn’t for 9/11.
Won’t work anymore. You will have to think of a new strategy.
Evidence isn’t really an issue except in a court of law. Unfortunately the courts are controlled by the state. Right now we are speculating and brainstorming to see what everyone can come up with. It smells rotten in Denmark IMO.
Are there too many coincidences in the Boston Bombings official narrative to call them coincidences? Behind each one lurks the shadow of Graham Fuller—a top CIA strategist who famously advocated co-opting Islamic extremists to further advance the US agenda in Central Asia—and his cozy ties with the accused brothers’ uncle. William Engdahl delves into the ramifications of the Fuller-Tsarni connection, the most compelling of the Boston smoking guns, and the threatening can of worms it has opened up.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article178524.html
Have a nice day:-)
Great article at voltairenet.org. If nothing else, it reminds us that the US has long used Islamic fundamentalists to counter Russian and Chinese influence, and in the process the US is accelerating the growth of terrorism which has already had terrible blowback, and will have more in the future.
A very reasonable speculation.
A couple of guys the brothers knew said they were running in the race, and “how about dropping my backpack off at the finish line for me to pick up.” Maybe those packs are still out there someplace.
Just reading in the Gray Lady:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/us/officer-involved-in-shooting-of-man-tied-to-tsarnaev.html?hp
“Investigators want to know how the brothers were radicalized, and they want to determine if there were accomplices.” Interesting: the question is “how the brothers were radicalized ?” and not “if…”.
Our state govt is radicalizing people as we read and comment.
Didn’t that start about 100 yrs. ago w/the run up to ww1? w/the advent of public relations, based in large part on freud ? How can we regain control; can we?
What I meant was the recent radicalization against our state’s policies.This seems just another Sacco and Vanzetti case. Catch em quick, hopefully kill them in the process, quick trial and bingo they’re dead. So it’s over for almost everyone except the ones who are, have been, and are becoming radicalized. The most radical people I know now are theologians in the tradition of Daniel Berrigan.I came to all this through Foucault but there are other doors. Debord and Spectacle is another. But continental philosophy – or post modern philosophy as slang – is leading the way. I write about post modern thinking through the media on my blogs so you could read a few if you want. I am seymourblogger at blogspot.
Interesting; did i see you on c-span last weekend discussing hitchens? Yes, we’ve had many cases in the u.s, recently involving muslim youth where it would appear, had they not been agitated or egged on, they posed no immediate threat. It seems a morally dubious version of pre-crime, or rather morally defective.
I am just a quiet out of the mainstream blogger. Many people are getting pushed into radical thinking. The lies of the state are being exposed as they are so blatant. They have gotten away with their sloppiness for so long they can neither understand why it’s not so easy anymore nor why so many things are getting out of control for them when they have better technology for control than ever. As the post modern thinkers would say, “We are now importing the terrorism we previously exported.”
No wonder world war three is practically an inevitability. We are not post anything. This is the capitalist world best critiqued by Karl Marx.
RR
It won’t be like that. Read Virilio: Speed and Politics. He is as scary as it gets.
Marx did not predict cyber-capital but he did say in his Grundrisse (PDF download available) that capitalism was irreversible. That is the important concept to grasp. That it cannot be fixed. As DeLillo’s Cosmopolis fictionalizes it must be imploded. Following Nietzsche and Baudrillard.
I can believe that the elder brother may have been radicalized, but the younger one didn’t seem the type. Even his friends were shocked. His friends also said that he and his brother were not that close. Am I the only one that remembers Patty Hearst? This country has been trained to be too unreasonable about “terrorists” – certainly Islamic ones – to even consider such a thing as a case of Stockholm syndrome. Besides, Patty had connections that got her out and back into a more normal life (though I haven’t heard in years, of course). I have some serious problems with the story of the “gunfight” the younger Tsarnaev had with the police, since I found out he was unarmed. And the wound that may have rendered him incapable of speaking, if not self-inflicted. Has anyone interviewed the owner of the boat? I can’t believe the more salacious “news” channels or talk shows not wanting to know what that was like. And will Tsarnaev’s trial be closed to the public? Are any of his friends or family allowed to talk to him (even with paper and pencil)? This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Who cares about back packs. The story is that the FBI or CIA are the ones who talked the brothers into the bombing, and helped them make the bombs. Go find the real “sasha” and you will find the FBI was behind it all. This article is pure obfuscation and counter intelligence designed to hide the Intelligence communities complicity or best case, incompetence. The author must be cia. (either that, or I’m a funny guy lol)
Kind of similar to courting Oswald in one account, I think maybe Mailer’s.
Sure, same m/o we’ve seen w/muslim youth over and over, just that this one went live; or did it? check out jim fetzer’s articles over at veterans today > where they show some of the ‘victims’ are on an amputee actor’s site > examples of fake blood, etc.
Have you been, or do you plan to contact the lawyer for the younger bomber in custody with this info? Is anything being done with this material info for his defense? Is there no one in the mainstream media with a backbone?
It seems like information the defence lawyer would want; but if this is as much of a set-up as the article implies, we may not be seeing a trial at all.
Not anymore there isn’t. They would face the probability of their car suddenly going out of control, bursting into an inferno, and being roasted alive.
another thing – didn’t we see the older brother getting taken away stark naked by scores of cops? his aunt in Toronto positively ID’d him from that video and said she knows her own flesh and blood when she sees it – so how did he end up dead and supposedly run over by his younger brother? this to me is the real smoking gun…who was the naked man if not Tamerlan Tsarnaev, and if indeed it was him, then how did he die in police custody?
No. We didn’t. That was just an Internet rumor.
I mean, wouldn’t you expect their chest hair and facial hair to be the same if they were the same guy? (And would you *really* expect a guy’s aunt to know what her nephew’s chest hair looked like??? Or what facial hair he had that day???)
so who is the naked man then?
Some guy walking around over in Watertown who *did* look like Tamerlane. Apparently the cops may be responsible for his being naked because they wanted to make sure he didn’t have a bomb on him.
This was doubtlessly Tamerlan, the image was pixelated and sorry if you were expecting to see his chest hair. The location Dexter St, was the same as where he was taken in custody naked and as it appears in his death certificate. Checkout the videos and interviews, all indicates that Tamerlan was the naked guy and not a look a like, which was also without his brother who was still in the run.
So eyewitnesses to Tamerlan’s death are part of the “Great Conspiracy”, huh?
The other guy was stopped, stripped and arrested because he *looked* like who police were looking for. So I would expect similarities.
And I watched the video, not just looked at an image. And the video was pixielated to hide the guy’s genitals, NOT his chest.
(Jeez, the Pakistani guy who owns the QuikTrip down from us looks an awful lot like Tamerlan, too. People were making jokes about it. Should we assume Tamerlan is alive because of *that*?)
Oh…and your “death certificate” claim??? The death certificate specifically says “Laurel Street, near intersection of Dexter Avenue”. Because Laurel is where the shootout occurred.
So someone being arrested somewhere on “Dexter St”. does NOT mean they were arrested at the same location as the shooting.
Naked guy was not on Dexter It was nearly a mile away over near Nichol. Cnn witness even gave the location.
CNN?
Yes, the “naked guy” video source. The witness being interviewed about naked guy at the scene stated the location. Btw, Tamerlan was taken into custody on Laurel Street, nearly a mile away, AND prior to naked guy.
This is seriously what I am talking about when it comes to uncovering lies and did-information in order to expose this Boston charade. Great reporting Dave Lindorff! Would love to hear what you really think?? Rathbone exposes the enemies amongst us: http://rathbonezvizionz.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/enemies-amongst-us/
The New Town circus was on local Chicago TV yesterday > If you think large PR firms wouldn’t stage events of this magnitude read James Bamford’s article, “The Man Who Sold the War” about the wholesale staging of the Iraqi government at a cost of 350 million dollars a month to American taxpayers > google it > and then there’s the catalyzing event for the war on terror madness which whowhatwhy.com tap dances around > i love “Family of Secrets”
I sense a new Mythbusters episode coming…
No, seriously, this kind of mass-media debunking would probably unwind the whole thing. -and then I woke up.
It’s also interesting that the diner windows were blown out, rather than in. And where is the evidence of all the projectiles expelled from the explosive devices – such as NAILS, BB shot, etc, on the buildings, light standards, mailboxes?
The bomb maker has/had an unusual talent – that is – to create a device that only expelled bomb fragments into flesh, and not into anything else.
It’s better than that. The bomb maker’s talent extended into being able to make shrapnel bombs that obliterated clothing while leaving flesh beneath it untouched. Check the countless images of people looking like they were outfitted by the Hulk’s tailor with nary a drop of blood on them.
It’s what I call the Reverse Neutron Bomb Effect. Material objects are destroyed but it leaves people hale and hearty.
Dzhokhar’s ubiquitous backpack explains what happened that week… http://www.usabailout.com/content/backpacking-through-boston%E2%80%99s-police-academy-state
The bombing was a hoax and fully expect the remaining “terrorist” to commit suicide in the hospital before any trial can be held.
Or they’ll have Dzokhar join Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a decades long wait for a trial that is held up for lack of concrete evidence.
Lord & Taylor on Boyleston St. is a block away from the Boston Marathon finish. So that video camera may have the brothers near the scene of the second bombing, but not near the first. I maintain that there is no visual proof the two brothers were anywhere near the finish line.
The Boston bombing was a hoax. A couple of smoke bombs and crisis actors run out and smear ketchup blood all around. Look up Boston bomb hoax on YouTube and have a look at WellAware1.com to see who the fictional patsies really are.
The bombing was a hoax, but “Dallas Goldbug”, AKA Ed Chiarini, is a disinfo agent who is full of crap.
I don’t think that most of our readers–nor most sane people–buy what you say.
Don;t speak for me or what I believe, the fact that you fear retaliation from the authorities if you push the hoax story too hard is evident in the stilted hesitant wording used in the articles and the denials in comments. the level of fear apparent here certainly makes me nervous.
So the government ran 45+ drills for an effective stand down on 9/11 to start the war on terror but it’s not evil or clever enough to detonate a couple of smoke bombs during a scheduled drill and blame terrorists? Is it really that far fetched?
Not a hoax but a false flag possibly. The bombs were real and there were really people killed and injured. In fact there might have been 3 bombs instead of 2. (Boston Globe received a Tweet of a controlled explosion on Bollyn St. as part of bomb squad drills). So drills were taking place — not sure if they included any crisis actors. Jeff Bauman really did have his legs blown off — the stuff on the web about an amputee putting on prosthetics is bullshit. Bottom line is that the 2nd bomb (black bag) does not match the younger brother’s backpack.
I disagree that there was real hurt. The place where the first explosion happened was completely empty, something you can see easily at the scene where the old guy takes a tumble in the road. I don’t think there were three explosions either – they would have said so.
Very well written piece. Thank you.
has anybody explored the possibility that Samantha met Ruslan through Graham Fuller in the first place?
Fuller was very verbal in the onset, but when his ties were revealed, he took a back seat and said no more.
Excellent analysis, Dave.
Video taken when the so-called amputee victim was being wheeled down the street also shows a man packing things into a backpack while kneeling on the ground. That video is taken from the other end of the street as the photo shown above in which the black SUV has not yet arrived. In the video look for the man (un)packing backpack in the lower left of video frame (min. 3:18), next to the blue wood drape covering the bottom of the empty stage. You will see a black SUV pull up, reposition close to the stage and park in the street opposite the first bomb site. The men in kacki pants and black jackets and baseball hats are standing near the back of the SUV (with the back open), then they walk to the stage area, lift the blue curtain and either stash or retrieve something from under the stage. Then one strolls away and the other returns to the SUV. The man on the ground has finished packing up his backpack, takes it and walks away. Look for the video of the amputee with no blood dripping and shift your focus to the “security” guys. They are all over the place conferring with one another. Here’s the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy-hWcOWL60
Watch it start-stop every frame. It is very obvious that there are at least 4 or 5 teams of players in this video, not counting the victims. They are color coded (as HSEEP manual recommends):
black team (with kacki pants): Craft Intl security, 6-7 people involved with black SUV and stuff under the stage. When black SUV arrived they had a pow-wow with man in yellow because SUV would be blocking the route for the wheelchair victim and cameramen. So man in yellow assisted in having the SUV reposition itself.
blue team with green triangle logo on back and cap and dbl stripes on sleeves and kaki pants; 6-7 people (finish line photographers or officials?). Minutes 2:06-2:13 2 men on blue team (after being given a signal) hold up something overhead like a sign in middle of street to be seen down the street. At min 2:52 man with camera on upper level (who has returned) gives hand signal to blue team man down below on street, then begins photographing. Minute 3:13 the person who shot this video yells to the man below him to MOVE because here comes the amputee in the wheelchair; so the photographer on lower level moves out of the way at minute 3:14 and resumes photographing or filming min. 3:15. Amputee victim gets his bandage or leg put back on at minute 3:16. Then photographer descends across the stage and confers at the driver’s side of the black SUV which seems to be command and control center.
white team (observers or medical?) 3 people lower left standing around
yellow team (emergency officials or cops) dozens of them
grey team 2 people walking off frame at bottom
The wording of this alleged message from Dzhokhar doesn’t make any sense to a Muslim. “You attack one Muslim you attack all Muslims” It is an expression which a Muslim wouldn’t make. Not even a Muslim sentiment. We are not the French Muskateers, “All for one, one for all” In fact Muslims fight other Muslims all the time and often don’t show much conern for what happens to others just because they are Muslim. All Muslims recognise there are good Muslims and bad Muslims too and it isn’t our religion which we necessarily share when it comes time to fight. We fight for our land and families and religion is our comfort and inspiration and an attack on Islam is an attack on Allah and all Muslims take offense but the wording of this alleged message just sounds like something half baked dreamed up by a typical Islamophobic mind. That was how I saw it as a Muslim convert and when I put it to my Muslim born wife and friends they all agreed.
Interesting argument. I would like to hear more.
As a rebuttal, I would submit that my younger brother and I grew up fighting each other constantly. But any time anyone picked on him I was instantly there to defend him. Perhaps it is the same with Muslims? I know it to be with Christians…
1) Those two security guys you have implicated are clearly seen with their backpacks after the bombings. Look at the finish line here
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8653973540_571d9c08cd_o.jpg
2) If the 2nd bomb was placed roadside of the fence, please explain how a section of fencing was blown in to the street, and how an adjacent section of fencing was bent around the mailbox.
http://i.imgur.com/Ot8xciz.png
http://timethemoment.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/lb_v2_img_9456_v2.jpg
Nicew try ES, but no cigar son. In fact the images of the security guy in question running away WITHOUT HIS BACKPACK after the event are so well known by now I have to presume bad motives on your part for trying to muddy the waters by introducing other images of other security people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bjocGidSLJw
It’s not a different security person. Here is the same picture used as ‘evidence’ in that video (not cropped!) to show that the same guy has his backpack after the bombings.
http://i.imgur.com/EVVIrZe.jpg
It’s irrelevant if he took it off later.
Look at them. It’s just so creepy seeing them stand there like that in the middle of a disaster scene.
Good point
Well you know if the big guys planned it they knew they would search telephone pics to scapegoat and they would surely have had a few with the backpacks on standing with them afterwards.
If you were doing this would you have worn a white baseball cap backwards (signaling punk) when no one else was in the crowd you were in. I would immediately have taken mine off if I noticed I was in a crowd of bare headed folks.
The *straps* of the post-explosion backpack, match NONE of the backpacks shown. The “Craft” personnel are supposedly national guardsmen, although nobody seems to have actually followed up on that claim.
BTW a “real” “terrorist” wouldn’t have used “black powder” as the explosive for a bomb in the first place, when there are other explosives, e.g., ammonium nitrate and chlorate based explosives, which would’ve been cheaper, easier to get in quantity, more effective and less technically risky. Moreover, it’s clear that the whole scene was staged. For example where are ol’ legless’ dismembered body parts? On the moon? Also, how could ol’ legless have his legs blasted off but the rest of his body is unscathed; i.e., no cuts, bruises, burns, shrapnel wounds, etc.
None of the “official story” makes sense.
Official stories never do in a totalitarian state.
It certainly looks as though The Public is being played for a sucker yet again.
It’s quite sad.
It is Deterrence. Now what is it hiding? I would say “increased surveillance.”
It is quite dangerous.
Fixed it for you.
I’m not sayin’ it was Aliens, but Aliens did it
Doesn’t matter. Your average person will believe whatever the mainstream media says without giving it much thought. They’re not reading this article. They’re watching some meaningless sports on TV.
Backpacks NOT a Match. Side-by-side comparison of Dzhokhar’s bag with the 2nd bomb. http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/bag-19.jpg?w=468&h=238
I’m sorry, but there is clearly black material in the backpack on the left. You do realize that the picture on the right is not of an entire backpack? Yes? Because that seems to be what you are assuming. You have to begin to use critical thinking if you want to get anywhere…
My critical thinking can distinguish light grey from black unlike yours.
Reasoning with sheeple is futile. Always remember this.
You’re nauseatingly self-righteous, which is your immaturity showing. Ha, you’re just a sheeple yourself led by a different breed of wolf in sheep’s clothing, one that is exploiting fear and suffering for money.
Stupidity is like grass. It is everywhere. Don’t get mad at grass, do you?
Three things.
1) What color is the back, not the front, of Dzhokhar’s backpack?
2) Why did this piece not come from Tamerlan’s backpack?
3) What is the internal coloration of, and what does the lining look like from, the insides of both backpacks? The insides are all light grey as well? Please show me how you know this.
You are jumping to conclusions based on only the information you choose, and avoiding any information which can disprove your claim. That is weak, uncritical, and ignorant.
It is critical thinking that reached the ‘not the same backpack’ conclusion. Please re-read the article.
The exploded one could even be a big camera bag.
Thanks for investigating this issue. Please note, however, that the picture of the bag next to the mail box is not supposed to be one of the bombs. That picture was taken a couple of hours before the explosions. The story now is that Dzhokhar dropped the backpack behind the fenced area. Also, I believe there are pictures of two black backpacks that have been blown up – I’ll see if I can find them and post them here.
But the explosion was from the street side of the people barrier next to that mail box, not on the people side of the barrier. The official lies do not compute with the facts. Even I could get this kid freed from these bogas charges.
Again, sorry. Try this:
http://s194.photobucket.com/user/togonation/media/external_zpsb191fb85.jpg.html
Thanks for the link(s lol), and they do not look like any of the captured and killed brothers doing that to the bomb bag(s).
Try.
crackpot nonsense.
Wow thanks for sharing your critical well thought out and fact filled contribution. The world is so much better since your contribution to society. Have a nice day~!
Yeah, it’s boobs like this with no scientific curiousity or ability that manage to get all the attention on State controlled television media in the U.S.
Yes. The dumber the better.
I’m sure the guy isn’t the least bit familiar with critical thinking. Gobble up whatever mainstream news media presents to you and you never have to use your brain.
Hey Marv, what SPECIFICALLY do you find fault with? What details are you able to debunk? Where is this reasoning going off the rails…SPECIFICALLY?
Take your time. You seem to be an exceptionally slow thinker. We’ll wait…
I don’t remember anyone suggesting the pressure cookers were full when they exploded. The physics of it would not require the device to be full for it to explode with tremendous force.
Furthermore, the gun powder was taken from a single fireworks display kit. I doubt they’d get four to eight pounds (remember they had one or two devices left after the bombing) of powder from a single kit.
The bags may have weighed only ten pounds. We just don’t know at this point.
It seems to me that if some terrorist were going to be engaged in such an event, they would want to maximize the damage and that would dictate maximizing the amount of energetic material (black powder?) used.
Really all you need is enough pressure to cause the containment to fail. That is always going to be a specific number and dependent upon the material used.
So the pressure cooker always explodes at the same amount of force regardless of the volume of explosive. In fact any additional explosive material like gun powder would have no effect because containment has already been breached.
I know very little about pressure cookers, but I’ll bet a cup of gun powder would go a long way toward blowing the shit out of it.
Not so, powder must be “tightly packed” to explode. Just cut a firecracker in half and light it. See what happens. It will burn not blow.
You are correct, John. Randy Bastard is just playing spoiler. These are called, “trolls” and the majority work for the government. Obviously, just causing the containment to fail with “a cupful of gunpowder” tossed inside a pressure cooker is not the same as ten pounds of tightly packed gunpowder. With gunpowder it is a case of “the more, the merrier.” It’s why some firecrackers are tiny and some are very large. The large ones explode with more force and energy, while you can hold a “Ladyfinger” in your hand while it explodes and not hurt yourself. Don’t try it with a larger M-80 or you’ll blow your fingers off.
Ten pounds of tightly packed gunpowder, obviously, is more explosive than a cupful tossed into a pressure cooker. Nice try, Mr. Bastard, but you didn’t earn your pay on this one.
Well explained Adam. I have always wondered why people like Randy come up with these silly ideas that defy physics.
You must be unfamiliar with the federal Troll Full Employment Act.
Now I know who the trolls are and even why they do what they do. Am I not mistaken – they deliberately present false information for another purpose related to shall we say the ptb?
It sounds like you have a handle on half of physics, Randy. Yes, the pressure cooker will fail at a specific point, but gun powder ignites as fast or faster than the cooker fails. More gunpowder will result in more energy unleashed. Think of an “open” bucket that has x amount of gunpowder in it. If a bucket with 10x explodes in a crowded area, you’re telling us that more damage wouldn’t result? That’s an absurd assertion. And the damage from a gunpowder explosion (or most any chemical explosion) actually comes from the shock wave that issues. More gunpowder in a sealed pressure cooker is going to generate a shockwave with much greater intensity (Watts/sec), regardless of the containers fail point.
intensity -> watts/meter^2
I think you’re wrong, Eric. But if it’s me that’s in error, you have to admit having a handle on HALF of the physics is better than nothing. Right? ;-)
I kind of don’t think these boys were so up on weight and explosive power. They probably thought, more is better. So this analysis would hold.
So then the fatal projectiles would have been irregular shards of the pressure cooker can or lid? What about the nails?
I don’t have this info yet and am wondering what the autopsies of those killed, or the reports of treating physicians are telling us what was the cause of the wounds.
The point was not to blow the lid off, like we used to do with trash cans back in the day. It was to completely shatter the pots, as clearly happened, and to blast the nails out at high velocity to do maximum damage. One lid blasted up six stories onto a roof. That’s quite a blast. Also, if you look at the photos and video of the two blasts, and listen to the sound and see the shock wave, they were enormous explosions. Now one cup or even two cups of black powder would produce that kind of concussion, knocking people down far down the street and creating those huge plumes of smoke.
Dave Lindorff
ThisCantBeHappening.net
I didn’t see a shockwave nor did anyone report a shockwave.
If a bomb had gone off there would have been a shockwave. Maybe it was unreported, but more than likely the reports were unpublished.
How do you know the powder only came from a single kit? How would they even prove that?
because that’s what the news reports said.
What a joke. If you’re going to believe everything reported in the news, why are you even visiting this site?
Wow. Sounds like I hit a nerve. Didn’t mean to yank on your panties there.
LOL!! Our tabloid paper media.
You left the /sarc out, didn’t you?
Didn’t you?
The idea was to make a big explosion and to expel nails and BBs at high velocity to do maximum damage. You would not accomplish that with a cup of loose powder in a steel pressure cooker. This was not like when as kids we used to put explosives in a garbage can and blow the lid off back in the day. This was serious bombing. One of the lids from one of the two pots can be seen blowing skyward over six stories high, and it was found on a roof of a six story building later on. Plus look at the explosions on video. They had huge flashes, made an enormous amount of smoke, and can be seen knocking people over pretty far from the explosion. There clearly was a lot of black powder in those pots. Also, I found that the nails, by volume, were the real heavy item. Five quarts of black powder is 10 pounds. Two quarts would just shave six pounds off the total weight, three quarts just four. The big weight was from the pot itself and the nails and BBs.
Dave LIndorff
any ‘excess’ gun powder would have been sprayed out along with the ball bearings. If it ignited at all it would have had no (or very little) effect on propelling the metal shards, etc. It would have no effect because there is no longer anything to push against. The containment is breached; nothing to push against. Get it? It may cause a flash, but it isn’t going to do a goddamn thing after the device splits open.
Hate to bust your bubble but if that’s how bombs worked, those 1000-lb blockbusters that the US unloaded on Europe and Japan, or on Nam, or on Iraq, would have been pretty puny. The explosi ve near the detonator would har “breached the containment” of the casings, and “sprayed out” the rest of the explosive uselessly. Bullets, which are ignited from the pin hitting the rear of the cartridge, wouldn’t go very far either, since by your logic, the initial explosion of the powder near the rear of the shell would push the remaining unexploded powder along with the projectile out of the shell before the powder could ignite.
Only that’s not how it works. In the real world of chemistry, the explosion ignites so quickly that it converts all the contents of a shell or bomb to gas before the material has time to expand and burst the canister. It’s all microseconds. Then it all presses outward and bursts the containment catastrophically. As we saw happen here.
Dave Lindorff
That makes total sense. That must be how folks’ clothing would be shredded into silvers BUT they showed no signs of injury beneath. It was all that ‘hot gas’ that was expelled.
You seem to be a veritable cornucopia of ‘hot gas’ minutia. You must be full of it!
How do you know the pressure cookers were the 6-quart size and not 4-quarts? Just curious. I couldn’t find anything about the sizes in news reports.
It was an FBI report that said six quarts
Dave Lindorff
Well that settles it. 6 it is. I believe everything the FBI says. Everything.
Okay, well then what happens when you toss a live 30-’06 round into a campfire?
Please don’t cite any of those Hollywood movies where writers were prone to alcohol-driven bursts of imagination in driving a conceptual answer. When we go out to test that 30-’06 round, you can wait in the car and I’ll stand near the campfire shooting video. After the pop, I may need some help putting out embers.
Now we’ve got to nail down those bearings and nails. Do you have any theories about how those things were packaged in a bomb to achieve any efficacy in regard to injuring people nearby?
I’m not getting the concept you’re trying to sell here.
It bursts, that’s what happens. All the powder is consumed in an instant and then the thin brass cartridge case, which is not being held together by the walls of the rifle’s chamber, ruptures and releases the gas. The slug won’t go far, if it goes anywhere.
Meanwhile, the purported writing on the inner hull of the boat was not reported for several weeks, until CBS Senior Correspondent John Miller—himself a former FBI spokesman—broke the story.
Hmmm…president of CBS, as Russ mentioned awhile back, is the brother of speech writing national security advisor to President Obama, and speaking of CBS:
http://www.privacysos.org/node/1065
Oh, for gosh sakes, Mr. L, next you’ll be complaining that no ammunition, nor any receipt for such, was ever found pertaining to the Mannlicher-Carmano rifle Mr. Oswald was alleged to have used in the alleged “lone gunman” assassination of President Kennedy, and that those 64 witnesses in Dallas who stated they heard multiple shots originating from the grassy knoll area were ignored?
Oh, wait, that is correct after all!
Nice article, sir, but remember Larry Stern and Dorothy Kilgallen, so be careful out there!
I’m not sure the strap strain comparison is that persuasive, mainly due to the graininess of the photos, but the experiment is laudable. The backpacks on the Craft personnel, however, are some seriously sturdy packs. They could easily hold 50 lbs each. And indeed, where did the one guy’s pack go? Excellent.
30 pounds? That’s like having 2 bowling balls in your pack. that much weight would also affect body posture in a standing position.
The photos supplied by the FBI certainly don’t show any strain on the brothers as they stand in the crowd with the shouldered packs.
I was thinking the same thing. Put a 30# barbell in a bag, strap it to one shoulder as shown in the FBI photo and see what it does to one’s posture. Walking around like that is not comfortable, and after a while, one would be leaning to one side.
I think that purse on top of the trash is it, had the bomb in it.