Official Story has Odd Wrinkles: A Pack of Questions about the Boston Bombing Backpacks

Reading Time: 9 minutes

The horrific bombing of the Boston Marathon, to hear the FBI and the Boston Police tell it, is solved: One bomber, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, is dead, gunned down by police and then run over for good measure by his fleeing brother Dzhokhar, who was captured a day later in a citywide manhunt, after being hit by a fusillade of police bullets fired into a trailered pleasure boat he was hiding in.

Among the reasons law enforcement sources are so confident they “got” their men were video surveillance photos from a Lord & Taylor storefront area showing the two brothers as they arrived at the finish-line area, each wearing a backpack, allegedly carrying what the FBI now says were two identical 6-quart steel pressure cookers marketed by the Canadian corporation Fagor. Fragments of those pots, which the FBI says were packed with black powder (gathered from a collection of fireworks) as well as nails and BBs, were recovered at the scene.

cook

Besides the photos of the two brothers wearing their packs, the FBI also has released a photo of the remnants of one of the backpacks, allegedly the black, or dark-colored, one worn by the elder Tamerlan Tsarnaev. There is also a photo of what is described as a white backpack, which was placed on the street side of a metal crowd-control fence. It was said to contain the second bomb, which exploded 10 seconds later, further from the finish line. This is presumed to be the same light-colored pack Dzhokhar is seen wearing in the store video as he arrives on the scene.

There are a number of serious problems with this supposedly damning evidence, however.

First of all, nobody looking at the evidence to date has tried loading up one of these Fagor pots with the amount of weight that would have been created by a big four or five quarts’ worth of black powder, perhaps two quarts of nails, and perhaps a pound or two of BB shot, to see what it would look like in a basic unstructured book bag of the type the two men were wearing.

WhoWhatWhy decided to do that.

***

The first problem was buying the pot. This reporter looked it up online and found that it was being sold by Macy’s. Going to the nearest Macy’s at the Montgomery Mall in Montgomeryville, PA, we discovered that the cookware section had no pressure cookers. The store clerk in charge of that section was asked where pressure cookers were.

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“We don’t sell pressure cookers,” she said.

“How can a cookware section not sell pressure cookers? Anyhow, your website says you sell a line of Fagor pressure cookers.”

She replied, “We stopped selling them after the Boston Bombing.”

So it goes. Guns—even the gun used in the incident, still get sold in stores after the Newtown, CT, school massacre, but when someone makes a bomb with an ordinary kitchen implement, they are taken off the shelves. (What’s next, a demand for licenses to buy canning equipment?)

Luckily, we found several of the Fagor six-quart pots in a nearby Sears store, and purchased one, on sale for $76.00. The dimensions of the kettle are 10 inches in diameter and 7.7 inches bottom to top, not counting the handle (which cannot be detached without exposing four bolt holes through the top and side of the lid).

After getting a calculation that a quart of black powder weighs about two pounds (a very general measurement, because the compound changes weight according to the humidity, and can be loosely or densely packed like any powder), and testing a bag of small nails to find that they weigh about six pounds per quart, and after weighing the pot itself, we found that the whole contraption, fully loaded with four to five quarts of powder, two quarts’ worth of nails and BBs, and a battery and ignition device, would weigh about 30 lbs. So we put a sufficient number of exercise weight plates into our container, shut the lid, and tried carrying it in two backpacks similar in construction to the ones on the two brothers’ backs.

The results were instructive.

If you look carefully at the first set of photos, showing the surveillance photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and the model wearing a similar pack containing the loaded pot, both packs being slung over the right shoulder using the right strap only, you can see a dramatic difference. There are stress wrinkles under the jacket of the right image on the model, caused by the 30-lb. weight pulling downward, but Dzhokhar’s jacket can be seen to be completely smooth under the strap. His pack is clearly extremely light on his shoulder (which may be why he’s not wearing it slung over both shoulders).  As well, you can see that the weight of the pot, pulling down and outward in the model’s bag on the right, is causing a downward sloping of the top of the backpack, and is also causing many vertical stress lines on the face of the bag itself. Dzhokhar’s bag, however, is flat across the top, indicating no such downward pulling force, and it does not exhibit any downward wrinkles on its side. Whatever he is carrying, it is clearly not a 30-lb., or even a 20-lb. cylinder.

Here’s a close-up image of the shoulder straps on Dzhokhar’s and the model’s right shoulders:

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Moving to Tamerlan Tsarnaev, check out the model’s slightly larger pack, which like Tamerlan’s is being worn with both straps over the shoulders. Again, the pack on the right, containing the loaded pot, is causing obvious wrinkles on the winter coat where the straps are bearing down on a small section of padded coat. Once again the weight of the straps of the shoulder— this time 15 lbs. per strap—can be seen causing prominent wrinkling on the winter coat worn by the model underneath the straps. The downward sloping of the face of the backpack, and also the vertical stress wrinkles are prominent and clearly visible also. In the video surveillance photo of Tamerlan, however, his coat can be seen to be unwrinkled under the straps, and there are again no vertical stress lines on the face of his pack. Again, it is hard to imagine a 30 or even a 20-lb. weight in the bottom of that pack.

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There are other questions too, that need to be asked, and that demand answers.

First of all, there is the matter of the photo released by the FBI of an exploded backpack, said to have contained one of the pressure cooker bombs. The material is dark black, and it is not because of charring, because the color is uniform, and also there are white images on it, including a white square (more on that later). That would have to have been Tamerlan’s pack, given that Dzhokhar’s is white or light-colored. But looking at the image of Tamerlan wearing his pack, and contrasting the light color of the pack relative to his clearly black winter coat, it appears that the pack is more of a gray than a black. It’s possible that it’s a matter of the lighting and the quality of the video, but it does not seem to be a jet black color, especially as there are much darker lines on it that  appear to be real black, along the seam lines. So was that exploded pack really Tamerlan’s?

5

As for Dzhokhar, the photo of a pack set on the sidewalk in front of a bunch of spectators, in the spot where bomb number two exploded bears no resemblance to the pack he was photographed wearing, which had wide black seam lines and zippers.

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Meanwhile, there were people on the scene near the finish line who were wearing backpacks that were both very dark black and large enough and full-enough looking to be containing a loaded pressure kettle. These men were observed and photographed wearing baseball caps and shirts bearing the uniquely drawn white skull logo of a Houston, TX-based mercenary-for-hire firm called Craft International Security (whom no governmental agency will admit to having hired). Curiously, images of several of the men wearing those packs show them to have an unusual white square image on the top of the pack, quite like the white square visible in the FBI’s image of the exploded black pack. The Craft personnel’s packs are made of material that looks remarkably similar to  whatever was used to make the exploded pack. (The man on the right below is photographed before the bombing. He is also seen, in an image taken after the explosion, running alongside a second identically-dressed Craft man wearing a pack and the company’s logo-emblazoned hat. Note that the left runner, interestingly, now no longer has on his pack. Where did it go?)

Note: Stay tuned for more information on Craft, its origins, management and relationship with the US government. We will try to determine what these private “soldiers” were doing at the end point of the marathon wearing large backpacks (or mysteriously losing those large backpacks) right around the time of the explosions. Of course it’s possible there is some benign explanation. It’s equally possible they were hired to guard against some threat that runners and spectators were never cautioned about, which could explain all the secrecy now about them.

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***

Some may argue that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has confessed to the crime, and even that two days ago his written confession was found scrawled on the inside wall of the boat he was captured in.  But while the corporate media is reporting that as evidence, let’s not rush to judgment here. Those reports of a confession have been sourced by the media only to unnamed “law enforcement sources” and there have been many such leaks and statements that have turned out to be false, such as the report of a 7-Eleven being robbed by the brothers, and a lengthy shootout between Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and police before he was captured in the boat (unarmed).

Since Dzhokhar has not said a word since he was finally provided with a lawyer, these “law enforcement sources” are reporting things that Dzhokhar would have had to have said during an unrelenting 16-hour interrogation by the FBI’s crack post-9/11 terrorist interrogation unit, who interrogated him while he was in serious condition from having been shot multiple times, including through the neck, possibly blowing off part of his tongue, after he had suffered massive blood loss and shock, and while he was heavily sedated and handcuffed to his bed. We’re supposed to accept that “confession” without question?

A copy of the transcript of a hospital bedside visit to Dzhokhar in Beth Israel Hospital by Federal Judge Marianne B. Bowler, who had finally called a halt to the interrogation (all conducted without a lawyer or witness present, despite reports that Dzhokhar had repeatedly requested and been denied an attorney), gives a good idea of how aware and capable of talking he actually was:

The Court:               I will ask the doctor whether or not the patient is alert.

You can rouse him.

Dr. Odom:                How are you feeling!

Are you able to answer some questions?

The Defendant:       (Defendant nods affirmatively)

There follow a series of questions and answers between judge and attorneys, and then some questions to Tsarnaev, which are only answered by nods.

Later, the Judge asks:

The Court:          Can you afford a lawyer?

The Defendant:  No.

The Court:          Let the record reflect that I believe the defendant has said “No”.

This is the quality of “conversation” of which Dzhokhar was capable almost a week after his capture, at a time when the hospital was listing him in “fair” condition. Just what level of “conversation” did he likely have with his FBI interrogators in secret when he had just been captured and was listed in serious condition and when there was some question as to whether he would even survive his shooting ordeal?

Meanwhile, the purported writing on the inner hull of the boat was not reported for several weeks, until CBS Senior Correspondent John Miller—himself a former FBI spokesman—broke the story. Was it really written by a frightened and severely wounded Dzhokhar Tsarnaev while he was on the lam from a city-wide manhunt? Or is it perhaps some cop’s prank? At this point who knows? As far as we know, nobody has tried to match the scrawl with his own handwriting to date.

So that brings us back to those two backpacks.  What could have been in them for them to be hanging so lightly on the two suspects’ backs?  And if it wasn’t two explosive-laden pressure cookers—if—then who put those bombs at the finish line?

These are precarious times. We owe it to ourselves to fully investigate all aspects of this singular affair, not to take anyone’s word for what we should think.

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  7. Rick Robertson says:

    More false flag operations. The beat goes on.

  8. Andrew says:

    One of the two men circled in this picture is the same ‘contractor’ with the large bag pictured above. It takes place after the bombing (obviously) and he appears to still have his bag on.

    http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-24.jpg

  9. Mike Thomas says:

    Great article,with some valid points. I would love to see someone post a youtube video showing your experiment of taking the exact weighed out pressure cooker ingredients,adding them into the cooker and then backpack followed by the video showing a model walking around with the loaded backpack. I think that would be extremely helpful. Not to me but to the majority out there who still trusts and believes their government. I have no doubt in my mind that everything and anything that comes out of there television is all bad for you and 99.9% of the time what is being shown on television is never what you think it is. Besides governments of the world, (especially Western country governments), do not have the best track record and have pulled this kind of crap in the past and will continue to do so. Just read the documents on things like Operation Gladio, or read the now declassified documents or the statement from Macdamerra who was secretary of defense when the u,s, entered the Vietnam war, he has publicly announced on more than one occasion in recent years that the Gulf of Tonken incident that the U.S. used as their argument to enter the Vietnman war never even happened. It was a lie! Its all lies if you seriously still think Governments are here to help the people you are greatly mistaken.

    Look at it from a common sense point of view. You have a group of people in Power, (government and people above government who really call the shots), and these people are all living extremely, luxurious,comfortable lifestyles that are way above the type of lifestyle that everyone else is living. So naturally it is in their best interests for them to want to do whatever it takes to make sure that they can maintain this higher more luxurious way of life; and to make sure that it isn’t threatened. Which means they will do whatever it takes and stop at just about nothing to make sure things stay the way they currently are.

    The number one way they try to make sure their way of comfortable living above everyone else isn’t threatened is through the education system. I mean come on, isn’t it pretty obvious that there is a conflict of interest when the ruling elite/government has ties and is in bed so to speak with the educational system of its country by its creating of a standardized curriculum? Lets just call “The Curriculum”, for what it really is. Its a government imposing a limit on the flow of knowledge. If you are the elite in positions of power and you have the ability to control not only what it is people are taught in school but just how much of it they can be taught; at the end of the day your going to worry less about your way of life being threatened by these people who are less informed and less educated, than say if the majority of the population’s flow of knowledge wasn’t restricted by a states curriculum; and instead the education system was turning out extremely,bright educated, and well informed individuals. Those type of citizens are the ones you would worry the most about because they would be more apt to be sitting around the table with either their family members or neighbors; figuring out just how badly the system has screwed them over and thrown them overboard years ago and just what it is they can do about it. Why do you think most of these people in powerful positions, like for example the Kerry or McCain family,famous musicians, or Actors and Actresses families send their children to special elite private schools, instead of public schools? Because what they are teaching the masses is just enough to turn out obedient workers.

    Here is a perfect example. Typical State controlled curriculum American history teaches that right in the middle of the ranging, bombs going off bullets flying around everywhere major battle of the war of 1812, Francis Scott Key writes America’s national Anthem, The star spangled banner. First off, whats wrong with that picture? I’m a songwriter myself and I would not be able to sit down at the piano or with my guitar or even without an instrument and just pen and paper and begin to try to write a song in the middle of a war, regardless of if I might have been even in a nearby basement of a home somewhat away from the intense immediate action. I’d be too concerned that the house could be hot by something or soldiers could come crashing through at any moment. Not only that bit if you know about Masonic History and how just like The Masons are responsible for the biggest modern day post Roman empire editing and rewriting of the Bible with their King James (who was a very high level Mason), version of the Bible , you will also know that the Masons are responsible for writing the history books the way that they are. Take a look at the name of the Star Spangled banner. Again if you know about thing like masonic history and secret societies you would know that a Scotts Key is a Masonic emblem, the Scottish rite of masonry is huge. But lets look again at the name, besides Masons being huge in Scotland, and besides many of their practices actually going back to ancient druidic times; modern day Masonry as we know it has its roots in France. So its not the name Frances, But its instead telling you that its the country France as in France’s scott key. These people are and have been laughing at us for a very long time, as if we are all like Jim carry’s character in that movie the Trueman show, gee I wonder why they named it, True-Man show, could there be something to how we think life is and how it actually really is? Thats another thing these elite scums like to do is they like to stick actual truths in our faces in the news,media and things like music and movies. It makes you wonder sometimes about those Sci-Fi movies that sometimes seem like they could be a possibility….?

    Besides the limiting of the flow of knowledge these people will then stop at nothing in order to make sure that their luxurious,comfortable way of living above the everybody else doesn’t get threatened. And thats why we have such chaos in the world, and things like the above marathon event! They create order out of chaos. They create the chaos so that they can control it; and the biggest tool they have for creating and controlling this Chaos is the media. Weather real or fake, or weather stories happen as they officially say they happen or not; as long as they can continue to keep everyone surrounded in what appears to be a constant world/state of chaos; the more people will be apt to live their lives worried mostly about just surviving day to day. Which means of course the people in power can keep on running off with all the money,while the majority of us run around like chickens with our heads cut off.

    Thankfully on the rise, many people are and have been seeing through their B.S. which is why they have been upping their game and why throughout most of the Western World you are seeing things like the dramatic militarization of the police. Part of me has so much hope for my fellow man and womenkind when it comes to doing the right things and thinking that one day, maybe,just maybe we the people, the underdogs might overcome the oppression against us by the basically 1% cock-sucker elites. But then I’m reminded of things from a few years ago how when George W. Bush Jr. basically stole the presidential election. (which is a shared anyways,but its the point), Instead of their being a mass outcry about the vote count fraud or massive hysterical protests to not allow such an obvious blatant wrong doing; the majority of the population didn’t really care, In fact many thought out was funny or some just were more concerned as usual with the score from the previous nights Monday night football game or something, and by the next day or two they were more concerned with business as usual like how the mainstream media perpetuated for weeks on end the story surrounding the death of Anna Nicole Smith. Because that was more important? Can;t you see when they pull that stuff its so obvious that they are treating you like a child, by allowing you to only know about unimportant trivial things,and not anything of any real importance?????

    People you have to question everything, and never trust authority! Never! The game of life is rigged! America is not and never has been a free country. The revolutionary war was a media sham. All of the founding fathers were high level Masons in bed with the very European aristocratic and royal families and secret societies that the supposed revolution was fought against. Stop buying into the whole, “be patriotic and support our troops”thing. How about support your fellow human beings and the next time you hear about any young friends,or family talking about joining the military you try to convince them otherwise,by educating them how its all one big F job; and how the same elite banker/military industrial complex corporate pigs have and always will control both sides of all wars by not only funding each side’s initial expenses needed to buy arms and defense,but in most cases once both sides get their funding; the very arms and defense contractors that they purchase their weapons from in many cases are owned by the same bankers who just loaned them with interest the funds in the very first place to be able to purchase the arms. And if that wasn’t enough,once the many thousand,hundreds of thousands,or in some cases even millions of innocent young soldiers perish once the war is over, the same elites will then send in all the rebuilding contractors that they also own. They send them in to rebuild the very cities and towns that their funds and weapons had just destroyed. And its the same cyle over and over. Think about it, the average person doesn;t want war, they don;t want to send their young children off to die or to kill some other person’s young child. But through the elite’s propaganda they create a mistrust and an us against them mentality so that these young kids by into the whole, be patriotic B.S., how about be humanly loving, forget about what country you were born in we are all the same, two eyes, an A hole and Sex organ people know matter what part of the world you were born in!

    Seriously stop believing that these elite people are good, and stop looking the other way or giving them second chances. These people are sick individuals. In many cases their level of sickness goes beyond their lust for money and power; as many of them belong to secret societies that practice bizarre cruel and unusual ancient occult ritualistic behavior that in some extreme cases involve sacrificing animals, even humans, as well as participating in child pedophilia practices! These people are sick, stop buying their media propaganda B.S. Do not feel bad for a grinning politician on television who might have just lost the race. The races are all fixed and besides, that grinning politician up their that you think is probably a nice family man or women like yourself; believe me when I tell you they are not! They would not be in the positions that they were in if they were. And that goes for a lot of your Hollywood actors and main stream musicians as well. Trust me when I tell you if they are in the mainstream in anyway weather its politics,movies, television or mainstream music; they are in the club and are up to no good. They are all sick. In order to reach that level they have to be apart of the many occult behaviors or they’re kept from the mainstream and from making any of the real big money. Sure there are talented people who are so good that the mainstream picks up on them, and maybe a musician comes out of nowhere and releases an amazing album. But chances are if after that initial great album the person raids away from the mainstream public, its probably because they didn’t want to play ball. Many artists if they aren’t already groomed from child hood to do the biding of the elite like a Justin Timberlake or Brittany Spears; once many are discovered or recognized for their talent they are usually given a choice to play ball with the elites or get lost. And I believe those who agree to play ball go on to have repetitive mainstream success. Those that don’t end up as washed up one hit wonders so to speak. And then those who do agree to play ball but later end up crossing the system or elites over, end up in situations like what happened to Kurt Cobain or some of the other mysterious rock star and Hollywood deaths, because again, everything literally everything coming from the television is not the real truth. So they can fill you with propaganda years prior about how Cobain was this always messed up depressed suicidal person, or they can make it seem like his totally drug crazy wife maybe had something to do with his death as a way to detour the blame away from what may have truly happened. But chances are what really happened to Cobain, (and I just used him as an example), wasn’t the real story there. Come on the guy had the world in the palm of his hands. His entire life he dreamed to be able to make a living expressing himself with music through his songwriting. Yes, he tried to make it seem like he felt bad that he went against his underground punk roots by becoming a rich mainstream rock star, but believe me every musician dreams of making it big so they never have to worry about having another day job in their life,and that they can just play music instead. I do not think he killed himself. Ask people who knew him towards the end that weren’t possibly in with the elutes and they all say the same thing that he was not suicidal. Its only those in the industry like his wife who went on to be hugely successful in film, who keeps perpetuating the he was depressed myth. Who knows but, maybe Dave Grohl knows some damaging evidence as to what really happened which is why his Foo Fighters, (although talented), are like the biggest rock band on the planet selling out for multiple nights in a row polices like wembley stadium?

    But again that is just an example as I went slightly off topic to explain how nothing is how it really seems in the media.. And if you noticed over the last couple of years, how they made a big deal with regard to everyone owning a TV, how you must upgrade to those new digital cable boxes? Its all digital now. I believe they did that or in some case are still doing that in certain areas because the digital technology can manipulate things. They can alter images and scenes on the fly in real time during live television now. And they even have better than CGI technology that enables them to do almost the opposite of CGI and instead of manipulating the background like CGI does, they can actually create life like avatar characters who look so real most people are fooled on a daily basis. All you have to do is record your local news for a few nights and go over what you recorded in slow detail and you will clearly see this new technology being used. I have to go I typed a ton and I’m running late. Just try to be a good person and never believe the media and do not trust authority, ever!

  10. Boris M. Garsky says:

    As I had written the day of the bombing, it was reported on a news site on cable tv, CNN?, that Mitt Romneys son, who stood at the finish line, along with many other prominent people, was whisked away in a black limousine, minutes before the first blast ocurred. The rest were relocated to another area, away from the finish line. The second blast ocurred at a different site where an anti-terrorism drill was being conducted by Homeland Security. Odd coincidense. Fortunately, I had been watching the news, while on a treadmill, when the inital reports were broadcast. Later, the news began to broadcast the second blast, falsely identifying as the initial blast. Again, I had seen the initial recordings of the first blast. The preponderance of credible evidence is nonexistant. As a matter of fact, the evidence that has been presented is grossy contrived, tainted, fabricated, unsupported, contradictory.Tsarnaev bothers had nothing to do with the bombings.

  11. Questioner says:

    Why in your opinion did that private agency’s employees wear caps with emblems identifying them?

    • DonaldTheWhiteMan says:

      That is the Punisher comic logo with a red X through one of the eyes. On the back of the hat it says “Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems”.

    • trig500 says:

      Because that would make it appear that “they were with the government & they couldn’t possibly be to blame”.
      Had they been out of uniform, then there would be mush more scrutiny placed upon them.

  12. Joney says:

    Single Rucksack strap over the DT’s shoulder would result in a heavy rucksack riding off his shoulder. Good article , BTW

    Dzhokhar
    Dzhokhar
    Dzhokhar

  13. HAMMER says:

    Really too bad, this place should have been humming tonight with a dozen more contributors earnestly trying to contribute in a small way to the greater good.

  14. otterdaughter says:

    if anyone hasn’t seen it, please watch the documentary “TWA Flight 800” it is particularly relevant to these times/issues.
    available on netflix.
    thank you kind people

    • DonaldTheWhiteMan says:

      TWA 800 was taken out by a US Navy missile from a submarine. They were doing a test fire on a drone and the missile lost target of the drone and picked up the plane instead. They didn’t have the balls to admit it was an accident.

    • russbaker says:

      From testimony of crash investigators, the official story doesn’t hold up. But what is your basis for the assertion about the test firing? See above our rules: “identify your assertions as fact or speculation.” If you know that for fact, we would love to hear the details.

  15. Russ says:

    Hijacking an article’s comments space for your own purposes like this without asking is rude and unproductive. It has also resulted in complaints from other readers. If some of you feel you can work together to advance the story, get your act together, come up with some discipline and a refined research product, and then contact our site via email, including your full identity and contact info, and we can look into it.

    • Indi says:

      No way the comment section was hijacked… I am sorry if there are people out there reading it that way, but I, as a guest, am totally thankful for the serious work these people are putting in to investigate what happened that day. They wrote day after day about ‘backpacks questions’, adding a lot the article itself. I don’t think you are Russ, but if you are, just know that there are many out there thankful for this comment section – I bet many more than the ones that are complaining.

    • HAMMER says:

      Russ:

      For 5 months two of us and then 3 and then 4 and now at least 7 maybe more – have toiled away first on the Collier/Rosebud space and then here sharing information, asking each other questions, forging some fairly clean and original ideas related to this case – far outside a typical conspiracy blog. We are now finding ideas we have written about on our blog page (http://allthingsforum1.blogspot.com/) are being discussed in Congressional hearings and on many alternative sites.
      Thank you so much for your patience and understanding letting us “crowd source” on your site – it has been a truly amazing process to be a part of.
      As with anything that is beginning to gain traction we are encountering jealousy, ridicule and our share of broadsides – we have never condemned or rejected anyones right to post on this site. We have however, asked some to keep it polite, keep it on task, keep it relevant. The proof is in the pudding as they say – scroll down and see how our efforts are constantly derailed, demeaned – worse the attacks are becoming personal. It is certainly nothing you would want your fine effort here to be a part of.
      Honestly, I see no ability of the attackers to moderate themselves – and in at least one case – it appears the attacker suffers from severe mental and emotional problems. I see no way for this person to continue here in any civilized manner. That is the reason we have moved to another forum.
      We would certainly love to continue to here and work with the small group of interested persons dedicated to finding out the truth. Whether we can continue depends, unfortunately, up to you. I would ask you or your staff – whoever helps you to moderate these boards to pay closer attention and blacklist the person whose only interest appears to be to disrupt the good work so many of us are doing.
      Thank you for your time.
      Coach
      psss please pardon me for airing the laundry so to speak – I posted for the explicit purpose of letting our legitimate and dedicated contributors know we did not abandon them and we are not quitting.

  16. Gaston Lagaffe says:

    Can someone send me an email where to go, please? I have major internet problems at home at the moment, so am unable to check in regularly, but I’d like to keep in touch. Thanks!

  17. guest says:

    thread has been infected by a troll

  18. GUESTDT says:

    Dear Mods:
    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
    tree@forest

    • Guest says:

      Are you who I think you may be ?

    • Baker51A says:

      Of course, & we are having a very interesting chat over on new space that we cannot have here or share with other readers on WWW, about Todashev, Grassley, terrorism plots, etc. We are being prevented from posting any intelligent back-and-fro by a shameless, vicious cyber-bully who the moderators have shown no interest in reining in.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Saunders – check your inbox again. just sent you the direct URL

    • Guest says:

      tree@forest……the collapse of the tree does indeed make a sound….and sound is remarkably resilient to obstacles. It can become very quiet, but never actually disappears completely. And, with the right type of energy applied, can amplify.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Can you hear a tree fall if it falls in space? And can you spell Foucault (Fouclaut wrong) correctly on forum so you will get hits from his name. And correct my name from A Shooks or Spooks or whatever to abbeysbooks or seymourblogger as it is copyrighted under those names. Forum is not violating copyright by pasting or posting it but changing my name is a violation. Or you can delete it. That’s OK too. I have all mine on my site as I anticipated trouble early on.

    • Guest says:

      Hello AB.

      Admin will have to correct Foucault and the names.

      Tree: if by ‘space’ you mean a vacuum, then no sound is produced, so there is nothing to hear. Other scenarios are different: sound can be produced but may or may not be heard.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If it’s not heard how can we know there is sound. Yes by measuring with an instrument I suppose. It’s Berkeley’s old argument of the senses. Can they hear us scream in space?

    • Rick Robertson says:

      Answer yes it does and the sound goes on forever

  19. Baby Blake says:

    Message for Saunders- check your email, if nothing there, check your spam. We have moved.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      That sounds like a move in the right direction. At last.

    • $79178947 says:

      It is impossible to suffer without making someone pay for it; every complaint already contains revenge.
      you suffer greatly oh talentless one…..

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Someone is going to Nietzsche’s quotes and pasting one. Thank you.

    • Guest says:

      That’s too bad. You’ll lose the help of the several “guests” who have been in here the past few days.

    • HAMMER says:

      I agree – Sorry so much. It has been a pleasure to get in and work these ideas 4-5-6 hours at a time uninterupted with you and others. But then the jealous one who has nothing to contribute leaves her hateful comments everywhere. And now she is bringing in her friends to make it even worse. Keep an eye out, we are hopeful she will tire or grow bored and we can resume normal posts.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Sorry I work alone like the Lone Ranger.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Please read the above post Guest. Same applies to you.

    • Guest says:

      Which post?

    • Baker51A says:

      Hello Guest, do you have a name?

    • patfromuk says:

      Well, that was a selfish move!
      The people who support DT are only a minority. You stop talking about it and stir the pot, hide in your corner as soon as you don’t agree with another of DT’s supporter, you do that and everyone will forget about it, the kid will be as you say it so well, amongst the living dead, and nobody will know, nobody will care. You don’t create support and awerness by hidding… Or maybe your primary concern is not really the kid?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Pat I am so sorry. We have a real problem here as I’m sure you can tell. We were on a previous thread before this one and suffered the same fate there I’m afraid. This decision was not taken lightly and it’s the only way we can remain productive and continue our work given what has happened. It really is impossible to do any meaningful work like this – hopefully we will be back as soon as possible so we can pick up right where we left off here. You’re input has been really valuable – hope it will continue.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Why would you label going to your own blog as a way of escaping unwelcome commenters, when it is really a positive move you should have made way long ago. LIke the abused wife, how bad does it have to get before you get out. You belong on your own site as it is a good place to build momentum altho youtube has taken that over now.

    • Baker51A says:

      Hello patfromuk: how would you recommend we deal with the disruptive, vicious, jealous cyber-bully who is ruining this thread for you and for us? Please advise the best way to handle this, I’d appreciate your input.

    • Guest says:

      Hello Pat. I’ve been out of the loop for a while and am not up to speed. What I can tell you is that the troll-patrol detected some renewed troll activity In the last few days. It is much more serious than the small-minded but vicious personal insults, and primitive destructive ‘interventions’ by the likes of RalienSeven and company. The thread came under a more ferocious attack and was no longer secure. It had to be dealt with very quickly indeed, and I , for one, am still trying to catch up.

      This is not about any of ‘us’: Most people here have put in a LOT of time and effort over the months, and my own motivation from the outset has been the very obvious problems with the case from the outset. I remember the Birmingham and Guildford pub bombings, and remember reading of the relentless but lonely fight that had to be made by innocent people who were wrongly imprisoned for so long, and of what their families endured. I cannot begin to imagine the effect of attacks on sanity caused by being innocent of such monstrous crimes, being wrongly convicted, and being widely disbelieved. Paul Hill was still in his teens when arrested – and was the first person to be arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

      There’s many out here in cyberspace for whom this has become a ghoulish entertainment – with the Tsarnaev brothers and their families cast as freakish caricatures.The group here, like the Tsarnaevs, are human, and far from perfect. One of the more dangerous but insidious effects of troll activity is that it creates freakshow episodes: their vicious personal attacks are one thing: but the real damage is in their obvious contempt for all those injured, bereaved, traumatised and accused. In filling space with fake posts, vitriol, meaningless diversions and in hijacking on-line identities to discredit others, this message couldn’t be clearer: ‘NONE of these people matter, because what matters is a wider, hidden agenda, and the protection of egos. And if that means burying any/all meaningful information, well hey,these people are just collateral damage.’

      This is not a game, as you know. I for one am glad that you joined, and I appreciate your contributions. I’m still not sure what’s happened/happening, but I do believe that urgent action was necessary. Trolls have no concern for who lives or dies, and (for me, anyway) their activities are attempts to dehumanise and desensitise, and to drive people to a particularly exhausting frustration – in short, to break those who may actually care, people such as yourself.

      This really has been severe, but it gives all the more reason to keep at it however we can. Please keep faith here…..

    • patfromuk says:

      To Saunders & Baker51A
      Hello. Well if the “troll” is who I think it is, it is not a new problem. This person have been around for sometime and up to now, the comments were more or less ignored, unless she happened to make a valid comment ,which she did at times. It became out of hand when her behaviour was questioned.It is always best not to answer trolls. True, they are a pain, true they undermine the serious work being carried out and tru they turn the enquiry into a joke and true they don’t help the cause we joined toghether to defend. Anyway, do I have a response or a better idea after all this logorrhea… Well sorry to say no… Do what you think is best.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Pat: It was me who was on troll patrol when I stumbled upon the latest nonsense. This was and is a separate matter from that to which you refer, and as far as I know and believe, did not involve that individual. The attack was of a different type: I believe a new tactic used by previous assailants. part of their manoeuvres involved hijacking abbeysbooks online persona, to discredit AB and make it appear that she was responsible for their garbage: same avatar, slightly different names: what had been posted by RalienSeven suddenly had AB’s avatar and the abbeybooks/abbeyebooks, sign-in.

      Another account was hacked: removing the poster’s genuine sign-in name and replacing it with another.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It will disappear not to worry. I am following and if it continues disqus will be notified.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Actually they did that years ago on robsessed. It may have even been some of the same. IDK and care less really. They don’t like that I “get” them as soon as they appear and warn wherever I am that doesn’t “get” them. MOst of the politico places do though.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Someone who had edit privileges? Now whoever could that be? You have a mole in your midst methinks.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Pat from where? The Daily Kos? Robsessed? Knotted-up? Now that’s a snakey, sneaky innuendo. Afraid to be direct and seen?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      My personal feeling is that the forum peoples’s agenda is to put all details under the microscope and to get more and more powerful microscopes to do this with. All of this will amount to nothing except cleaning your apartment floor with a toothbrush which is what speed freaks used to do BTW. The forest looks quite different as Boston is not an isolated Event. It combines with many others. Someone somewhere even remarked on the Collier killing resonating with the Tippet police killing in Dallas. Actually we are not even sure Oswald did that, but we do know they would have had a hard time proving his guilt on shooting JFK as it was all circumstantial. But with the tabloid minds of today that would probably fly. I take that back. Arlen Spector’s single silver bullet special did fly in Congress so what can I say. We all laughed but what good did that do.

      You are right that no one will care. No one cares about Sacco and Vanzetti now either, or the Pearl Harbor conspiracy by the govt. Or the Maine blowing up, or the Lusitania being sunk. The incidents of history mean nothing until people learn to think genealogically instead of dialectically. It’s the DISCOURSE that has to change, which means the way you think has to change.

    • patfromuk says:

      Change the way we think?! Now that is a big program.
      You think differently, that is fine as long as your “thinking” is not contagious. The masters don’t need thinkers, they need happy consumers. But don’t worry, if you find that difficult, they will insist on feeding you prozac (it’s for your own good).

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Easy to ID you now. Better change it again.

    • patfromuk says:

      I don’t know what are your goals , but this is not my battle.

    • guest says:

      It was Russ Baker’s ‘Rosebud’ article that mentioned the parallel between Collier’s killing and Tippet. You know, the one that you’d been posting comments to for months.

    • Trying to understand thinking says:

      I don’t understand what the difference is between dialectical and genealogical thinking?

  20. HAMMER says:

    Hey all – can we go to our new place and leave her

  21. Baby Blake says:

    Can everyone please check – I just sent out a group email. If you do not see in in your inbox it is probably in your spam. Thanks. (Renny – I included you too)

  22. Baby Blake says:

    Just been re reading through the Grassley letter and (lack of ) response. Does anyone mind if I do a quick post addressing the issues brought up re the images? He really seems to be asking the same questions we have been asking for 6 months. When were they identified precisely (very quickly obviously), why did they go public so soon etc? We’ve said all along this was rushed – I’m not going near the photoshopping angle as that is for others but just the hurried nature of the whole thing. Thoughts?

    • Guest says:

      No holds barred. Adios amigos.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Aw God. Don’t say that. My no holds barred is like releasing a wild animal. I often get carried away…will try my hardest not to.

    • Guest says:

      Check your inbox

    • Renny says:

      I received one email from an unknown email address. Is it you Saunders?

    • Guest says:

      Your radar is good, Renny.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Saunders – hopefully this will be the last time I have to write this – can you please check your inbox?!? there’s an invite and I am waiting in a certain place for a reply.

    • Guest says:

      Have responded. All is in order. Thanks.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      More efficiency. Wow.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It’s definitely not me.

    • Missie Baker says:

      It’s a scary time when S and I agree on events, but here goes. My problem all along with the innocence of DT is just this–if one had set down a package in an area where a bomb exploded killing two people, one of them a little boy when I had so many nieces and a nephew of whom I was obviously fond, wouldn’t a trip to the police be in order–I didn’t do it, I was just dropping off a package for a drill.
      And yet, DT does not take the innocent man way out. Now granted, it could be because if you are Chechen, you do not trust any govt or LE, but DT has been touted as more American/assimilated than the other members of his family. If you are innocent, go to the police just as did the two little boys initially mis-identified by the Reddit crowd.
      And DT and bro also fail to call Boston police (we think) after being identified on television. Coach believes they went (post FBI release of their photos) to their agency handlers who set them up for the ‘drill’ and said–what are we to do?–that’s why they were so mysteriously circling Watertown for a couple of hours after the 5PM announcement. It’s why they were caught unawares by Officer Reynolds and started firing on him (we speculate–and they had no pressure cooker bombs they lobbed–that’s been put the bed as well.) Okay, good with that. It’s the only explanation that makes sense.
      Two more elements that don’t fit if they are guilty:
      a) Why wear your usual gear if you are setting a bomb in a crowd? Many comments in the media that DT’s friends recognized him as a result of his hat.
      b) No attempt to run or conceal themselves in days following bombing–even after the FBI announced immediately they were looking at photographic evidence from the scene, asking everyone to submit what they had, setting up FBI site to collect images. Had to know they’d been captured on film by someone or a fixed camera.
      Logically–if you are going to kill people with a bomb in a public place, either you take great care to conceal yourself from discovery (and later you release a terrorist manifesto–the lack of which was what ‘worried’ the terror experts–brothers never took credit for it, and neither did anyone else) or you blow yourself up doing so (lots of examples of this in the Middle East) OR you run so you cannot be caught–no, they hung around. The failure to react to a threat to their own safety is the biggest disconnect–because they did react on Thursday night after photos released–they somehow foolishly ended up in a gunfight with a bunch of sleepy Watertown cops.
      If I compile all these facts, Saunders work on the photographs, plus the Land video, Saunders can only be right.
      It’s unlikely DT was in front of the Forum where the bomb exploded–if he wasn’t there on the patio, he had no reason to expect he was going to be accused of it. Same for TT.
      However, if DT had set down a pack (with or without a pressure cooker packed with explosives) in front of Forum for a drill or whatever reason, and it later exploded–let’s just say he did–wouldn’t you realize you were in trouble, call your parents (he’s just 19) looking for help, an explanation, a plan, some way to get away? Wouldn’t you or they call your lawyer uncle in the U.S. and ask for help? if you realized you had a problem wouldn’t you turn to family for help? (that Mrs. T interview Renny posted–she said the uncle agreed would help get a good attorney for DT–but this call took place after he had been captured)
      It’s because all these puzzles have no answers that we all have questions. So I come back to Saunders–DT was never on the Forum patio–at least within the relevant time frame for the explosion. Someone else set the black backpack with a timer on it. Perhaps it did go off a few minutes early–maybe it was meant to blow up TT who was supposed to be standing there, not DT, and solve a problem he may have been causing.
      And I’ve also thought, S, that if we had access to other CCTV camera footage around the area, we’d probably find where TT was stationed, because it wasn’t at Marathon sports if there are no photos of him there.
      So we come back to the question BB and Mrs P have been examining–who set down the black backpack that exploded at Forum and Marathon? And coach’s questions–who hijacked the drill, or decided to kill Americans at a public event that would be instantly broadcast worldwide? Who benefits from heavily televised U.S. deaths and maiming of innocents? With a $17 trillion dollar deficit and the obvious need to rein in spending.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Agree with all of the above apart from one niggling problem. DT’s defense have indicated they have seen a vid of him setting a bag down.

    • Missie Baker says:

      I’ve made the connection. Thanks

    • HAMMER says:

      where?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Check your email please

    • HAMMER says:

      I have ???? nothing but crickets

    • Baby Blake says:

      Have just sent you another one. Check your spam.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Yes, let’s add some extra steps and send it all by email instead of a link right here and now.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You fell right into her trap of dumbness.

    • HAMMER says:

      the blue dog said woe

    • Missie Baker says:

      BB, did you pull the 129 filing from emptywheel’s link? (Indi or Renny posted it–somewhere waaaay down thread) it’s the only doc that appears legit.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Wouldn’t it be nice to have that linked on your very own blog so you could get it right away instead of having to spend all that time going down thread to try to find it? No of course not. Let’s make it as hard as we can for everyone since I can’t figure out what to do or how to do it and won’t listen to anyone who knows.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Goody. Do they have a vid for all the other 1000 or so bags that were also set down – and left – or just a vid of his one single bag being set down.

    • Guest says:

      Sorry I’ve missed the last few hours: where can I see what the defence has indicated ?

      I did send the Grassley doc as what I thought was the original link, but I’ll check again.

    • Guest says:

      I’ll get to the details later, but as far as going to the police if you’ve nothing to fear….that sense only if your perspective of LE is that it’s all that it purports to be: ‘protect and serve’, or whatever it is they have . Any other experience, and you’d be wary. If you knew that other more powerful forces were at work, you’d be alert to the possibility that there’s collusion. There’s nobody to trust. Dzh.T, so it appears, was unaware of his ‘suspect’ status until his pals texted/tweeted him. In an instant he’s gone from anonymous kid to America’s Most Wanted. The only person he can count on is Tamerlan. People don’t always act rationally, or what appears so from the outside. The family background is loaded with all the baggage of political asylum. None of the refugees I know here have much trust in ANY branch of government or LE. Going to the police would have been suicide. It’s his word against the FBI’s….and the FBI always have superior intel, right ?

      Dzh.T is in several aspects, not as Americanised as he appeared to be. This says nothing about his character, but about others’ perceptions about what it IS to be Americanised. Clothes, accent, habits, friends…all visible signs of assimilation. Even the acceptance of ‘Jahar’ as a name…and all of these very real and honest. However, the unseen but equally real consequences of being part of a refugee family – quite something else.

      EDIT: and I think that the handlers were also taken by surprise. Somebody froze, and then the expedient course of action was to fling the brothers under the first bus.

      EDIT: and meanwhile, over here in ‘fair play’ Britain, the Bishop of Southwark himself was stopped more than 40 times in 12 months for driving whilst black. He had a decent motor, in good condition…going about his legitimate business, but obviously there was something dodgy about him, right ? The Lawrence family were spied on: sometimes the most innocent have very good reason to be wary of LE.

    • Missie Baker says:

      S: How about “living in a home whilst black”–here’s the link. Do you remember this case? http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2009/07/22/cornel-west-on-race-and-politi/
      (this is why I remember FBI/MSM first said they were looking for two dark-skinned men, because several comments came out and a specific article by a Muslim man–how d*** relieved they all were to learn it wasn’t a Muslim responsible for the bombings–alas.

    • Guest says:

      Yes, I can believe it. What’s next, ‘breathing whilst black’ ?

      There was a classic a few years ago here in a legendary satirical publication….referring to the magnificent Desmond Tutu as ‘the first openly black archbishop of Cape Town’. ;) Takes a swipe at a few things there alright.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Please stop. You are making everyone look like idiots by association. Have you forgotten that Harvard professor of some reknown that didn’t have his key to get in his house coming from the airport who got arrested by the white cop, because he was insulted by the attitude of the white cop racially profiling him as a burgler or robber when he was trying to get in his own home! Stuff like that happens every day. do you think these boys were not stopped frequently for no reason just because they looked middle eastern. Do you have to say stuff like this just because you have nothing original to say, then make someone who is patient explain and teach you a more logical way to think. These people are busy and don’t have time to take you to school every time you comment. Just keep quiet and learn.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Do you really want to be involved in a group with someone who proposes such idiocy that you then have to explain why not in all those paragraphs. Hopeless thinking.

    • otterdaughter says:

      also, in their culture of origin you CAN’T trust the police. ever. so they both would have the instincts to run.

      they might have a point.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I’m American and I wouldn’t trust LE enough to go and turn myself in, innocent or not. I know from Viet Nam protesting how they made/make things up to jail you.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Go look at the 7 hour documentary. Your reasoning is adolescent. If you were innocent why wouldn’t you go to the police and tell them you put your backpack down. LOL! ROTFL! I can’t even believe you thought that much less wrote it.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you watch that 7 hour documentary by that boy/young man your answer is there. In the beginning when he is doing O’Reilley and Glen Beck. Glen Beck points out a man in shadows with an earpiece who makes a call as the Tsarnaevs walk by in that image we all know as one follows the other down the sidewalk through the crowd. As soon as they appear he makes the call. He has been watching for them or for someone looking like them that fits the profile they want, but I think they know who they are and it is they that they want to frame before the bomb ever goes off. This is a surveillance video released by the FBI that I am sure you know only this one is uncut. Then it rolls from the opposite perspective and the man in the shadows is more visible so he is blurred out so you can’t see him or what he is doing and you would never know unless you had watched it from the opposite perspective. Beck of all people, who says they want to frame the Tea Party for this, says they are caught on tape in the act of framing the Tsarnaevs. And they have the posters for the camera of them and say they are who they are looking for. AND DON’T LOOK FOR ANYONE ELSE IN THE PICTURES. Just these that we are showing you. You may eat the fruit of all the trees in my garden EXCEPTING the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Here it is the same only inverted.

    • Baker51A says:

      Does the FBI blow off Congressional hearings very often?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Hmmmm. Seem to with this case. Couldn’t even be bothered to show up.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I guess Grassley is so far down on the food chain that the FBI doesn’t have to pay attention to him.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      They blow off Grassley which is why.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Grassley is just for show. You took him seriously. I think you might like this site to give you some ideas on how this works. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/09/how_does_the_shutdown_relate_t.html TLP is very very good and only gets better with time.

  23. HAMMER says:

    Geez us you guys! I thought we made progress yesterday! You have taken off again. just read through your work – agree agree agree – I have something else I woke up with – Later – have to go coach right now – catch up in a few.
    C

  24. Guest says:

    …and another INBOX check….

    • Missie Baker says:

      S, before I forget, I believe C and I were thinking the photo of DT (the one used in the railing analysis you did) was taken by the Forum surveillance camera, was based on both the photo showing the Forum has a surveillance camera in the outside furthest east corner beneath the awning and Ghenk’s mention of a surveillance camera, as well as the interview with the Forum’s owner who said FBI told him his surveillance camera had provided photos leading them to the bombers.
      But now I’ve been thinking, what if some doctored data was submitted to the FBI in that deluge of photos and video submitted by the public, data that was prepared in advance for the FBI to discover and not question? And as you have made plain in your analysis, wasn’t questioned until it was too late to retract and realize the timings didn’t work? assume to be generated by a legit source, and used without question?

    • Guest says:

      Quite possible that there was a joker in the pack,especially as these images have quite a colourful history and are unattributable. But where they come from is anybody’s guess.

      I doubt that the railing image was taken by the Forum surveillance camera. The angles and perspectives are all wrong. To get that image, the Forum camera would have to be located at the far end, to the left of the Dzh.T figure and the pink skull woman figure. It is not: it is located to the right of both. (ie looking into the street.) Genck stated specifically that it was the camera ‘affixed above the door’ of the Forum.

      That image cannot, in all sanity, be taken to be a photograph in any normal sense of the word. It is a composite, and a very bad one. The ‘Forum’ rails are just the front barrier rails duplicated. Most, if not all of the figures have been cut & pasted in. One (at least one) of those images has been interpolated to a ridiculous degree, to no good effect – at least to no good effect if the intention was kosher. One file is 57 times larger than the other. Once you interpolate in excess, the ‘higher resolution’ means nothing apart from serving to blur/conceal whatever was there in the first place. It’s not a photograph in any normal sense. There’s no evidence that it even existed prior to the 16th.

      But I imagine that it would have been mannah from Heaven to LE….without them ever knowing that in accepting it, they’ve relinquished control of the ‘investigation’..

    • Missie Baker says:

      S: excellent analysis and logical conclusions–agree completely. I simply meant we were drawing conclusions based on those particular facts, and others might readily have come to the same conclusions–it ‘appeared’ to make sense, but actually didn’t. (and there’s DT’s missing foot–rather a large problem to overcome)
      And yes, I am willing to speculate, based on your discoveries, that some ringers were slipped into the Public’s submissions and may have been unwittingly taken as accurate in the rush to find the perps. (just possible, not saying it happened that way.)

    • Baby Blake says:

      And if I recall Ghenk stated that camera saw all the way around up to and past AF. Those shots of DT, unless wildly cropped do not have anything like the wide angle that was suggested.

    • Renny says:

      Missie, do you know when was this picture of Forum taken?

    • Guest says:

      Renny: i can’t remember which one is which, but neither has any indication of a history prior to the 16th.

      Sorry Renny, I thought you meant the image that we’d been discussing.

    • Renny says:

      No :) I mean the one in Missie’s post. It’s a pic of the Forum. Looks like from Google StreetView. Just wanted to confirm when it was taken. We both know that those pics are not pics.

    • Guest says:

      Right, sorry. The GoogleMaps images I have area from 2011. However, I do have a few shots where that red box (alarm ? camera?) is still there above the door.

    • Renny says:

      Yeah, the red box is there, but I think that’s an alarm. My Google image is from 2011 as well. But where in Missie’s pic on the left hand side you can see brackets for holding something – in my pic there is a huge box – but that’s not there anymore. It doesn’t appear in any pics from April 15th, pre or post blast.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You don’t know it it was shopped in, shopped out, if it was really there, really taken down there. so you have 4 choices. Place your bets, all bets down.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Hi R, thinking pre-blast….do you believe otherwise? I can check later–running out with spouse for some spouse-time! :)

    • Renny says:

      No, I believe that’s correct. The tree is green, so it must have been taken last year, if pre-blast. Is it from Google StreetView? Do you know? Not important now. Have a good time!

    • Guest says:

      Also Missie…if those two images were supposed to have been ‘taken’ in quick succession, how long did it take pink skull woman to get from behind the back railings to the barriers at the front ?

    • Missie Baker says:

      good comment–LOL–pink skull scarf woman must have been a witch!

    • otterdaughter says:

      i can’t access the photo gallery, so i’m never sure what y’all need.
      i have a couple pics of skullscarf with injuries. lemme know.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I’ve already put a link up on the youtube shopping of that image showing the shopping and its affect on the railing, the bag, without going into detail on the rest of it that would included Dzhokhar’s presence back there in his funny looking white hat and extra large nose. Just seeing how the bag was done is enough. If you were commenting on your own blog you might have this link at your fingertips but probably not as I wouldn’t be there.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It was and you can see it in that 7 hour documentary. It’s in the part where Glenn Beck of all people is showing where a man in the shadows with an earpiece is making a call as soon as he sees the Tsarnaevs walking by in single file. And then the FBI blurs the man and what he is doing right out when you see it from the opposite perspective. They were waiting for them to walk by in that replayed and replayed video. These are the ones we are going to hang it on. And to have Glenn Beck defending them is beyond my understanding.

    • HAMMER says:

      thats a short trip

  25. Guest says:

    Time for an INBOX check.

  26. Guest says:

    The drill, the 12-man ‘cell’. 6 teams of 2. For each team, one with a fake bomb, the other with a fake detonator and/or the smoke-bombs. That gives each team one big backpack, and one smaller, lighter one. Pay-as-you-go anonymous cellphones via which to give the fake word – bought just prior to the drill, to be used for that purpose only, and then discarded, but in a way they could be subsequently ‘discovered’.

    The real bombs NOT inadvertently carried by the brothers: far easier for the hijackers to plant them in locations where they knew the brothers were assigned to be. Timers: much more reliable than RC. FEDs in the crowd ready to pounce at (say) 3pm. After 14:42, TT vanishes completely. Perhaps he stood in a certain place in the vicinity as assigned, to be caught on camera, but because of the hijack, never got to carry out the instructions. He may be on surveillance video, but not doing what was alleged. No incriminating surveillance evidence at either venue. ‘We didn’t do it !’

  27. Guest says:

    A small detail….one of the articles below said that TT became effectively stranded in Cambridge without any passport – having legged it sharpish after the death of Plotnikov. He never collected his Russian passport.

    ‘Will box for passport’…..reported that he’d rather represent the US than Russia – indeed no wish to represent Russia full stop. It was reported that his Kyrgysz passport had expired, but his new one was to be a Russian one. Was that the only one he could get, or was there more to it ?

    • Renny says:

      I would think that he could have had his Kyrgyz passport renewed if he wanted. He was born in Russia, so he could get a Russian one. But as you said that’s not what he wanted. I think he really wanted an American one and he might have been promised one? In exchange for something?

    • Guest says:

      ..In exchange for several things…especially if he was cornered. No citizenship means a constant threat of deportation: adios to his child, his wife, and the rest of the family. Does a Russian passport give greater freedom of movement than (say) a Kyrgysz, Daghestani, document ?

    • Renny says:

      No idea, I believe the Russians need to get visa to enter the EU countries and the US as well. But they might be less restricted when travelling to other countries (Asia, Middle East, etc.). Don’t know about Kyrgyz or Dagestani (isn’t Dagestan officially part of the Russian Federation? I think they have Russian passports as well).

    • Guest says:

      God knows….

    • Renny says:

      I’ll ask someone. He’s an immigration officer.

      Any of you experiencing problems with your comps? My laptop crashed down yesterday and I couldn’t restart it. Whatever happened to it, it burnt the battery completely…

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes. I had a 45min delay on my emails yesterday for several hours then my comp crashed and would not turn back on.

    • Renny says:

      When I managed to turn mine back on, my antivirus stated that it was de-activated and that my PC was “at risk”. When I opened the antivirus programme, everything was showing as active and up-to-date. And I’m having some problems today again.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes! My anti virus stated the same! I re installed it all this morning just to be sure. Not having any problems now though. Wonder what is going on?

    • Renny says:

      Someone is not happy about what we found out?…

    • Baby Blake says:

      What did we find out? Nothing that’s not already out there. We were just speculating for a good part of the day.

    • Renny says:

      I don’t know…maybe it’s something we haven’t realized yet. It happened on Friday morning, after we were posting those backpack pics with Coach. That’s when it happened to me at least… And maybe our speculations are going the right direction…

    • Baby Blake says:

      Saunders – can you please fill Renny in by email? Can you just explain the ‘topics’ we you identified and we discussed briefly over the last few days. thanks

    • Guest says:

      BB – have to vanish, and now. I’m not deserting. I know where to find you. See your inbox. Onward ;)

    • Renny says:

      Yep. With a Russian passport you can travel to at least 95 countries visa-free or with visa-on-arrival (confirmed with Wikipedia) as of June 2013 (most of South America and Asia). Dagestan is part of the Russian Federation, so Dagestani people get Russian Federation passsports as well. As to a Kyrgyzstani passport, they only seem to have a visa-free access to the former countries of the Soviet Union (Russia included).

  28. HAMMER says:

    It looks like the brothers other Uncle – Alvi has some interesting connections too. This from the article I posted just below:

    The other uncle of the alleged Boston bombers, Alvi S. Tsaranev of Silver Spring, Maryland, not far from his brother Ruslan’s home, is apparently affiliated with another Chechen exile organization, the United States-Chechen Republic Alliance Inc., with an address of 8920 Walden Road, Silver Spring, Maryland 20901-3823. The address is also that of Alvi S. Tsarnaev. The registered officer for the organization is listed U.S. Internal Revenue Service filings as Lyoma Usmanov. The organization is registered as a charitable organization engaged in «International Economic Development».

    In the book, Power and Purpose: U.S. Policy Toward Russia after the Cold War, by James M. Goldgeier and Michael McFaul, the latter the present activist and neo-conservative U.S. ambassador to Russia who has directly intervened in Russian politics to seek the ouster of President Vladimir Putin from power and stir up secessionist, religious, and political extremists throughout the Russian Federation. According to this book, former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski was Usmanov’s sponsor in the United States: «Brzezinski helped to establish and finance Chechen representation in the United States headed by Usmanov».
    So what does this make Anzor? He is too well-spoken to be a simple mechanic. He is too well groomed – too well versed – too much something. He very well may be the boys father and his grief is palpable…but?
    It is still niggling at me – something I read a while back

    • Guest says:

      Anzor wasn’t always a mechanic. In Kyrgyzstan he was some sort of official in the prosecutor’s office. So it stands to reason he would be poised and articulate.

    • HAMMER says:

      I knew it! I read something – months ago and I cant find it in my files – but anyway – there is something else to him. I originally thought a connection to Todashev’s dad but that appears to be a real longshot – but there is more to him and why he was able to get his family here relatively easily as compared to others in his/their situation. Anything else you can find – please dont hesitate.

    • Guest says:

      I know I read it in more than one place, but here’s where I just found the reference http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/shot-at-boxing-title-denied-tamerlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

    • Renny says:

      “Relatives said Anzor Tsarnaev came to America in April 2002 and won
      political asylum, which also likely covered his wife and children. The country he feared persecution in is Kyrgyzstan, the former Soviet republic where he was born, according to a federal official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

      Maret Tsarnaeva, Anzor Tsarnaev’s sister, told the Wall Street Journal that
      Tsarnaev was fired from his job in the prosecutor’s office in Kyrgyzstan after
      the second war erupted in Chechnya. She said he suffered persecution in
      Kyrgyzstan because he was Chechen, and that she helped write his application
      for asylum.

      “We were lucky to take him out of Kyrgyzstan alive,” Tsarnaeva, who lives in Canada, said in an interview broadcast online after the bombings.”

      http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/07/04/wake-marathon-attack-questions-about-safe-harbor-for-ibragim-todashev/iTe3zMwBZxh46u9l5N2SWL/story.html

    • Guest says:

      Mr.Tsarnaev got political asylum in his own right. Dzh.T was with them, and was included ‘by extension’. Probably Mrs.T qualified by extension as well ? The others were left with relatives,

    • Renny says:

      I know, it was only DT who came with his parents, the other siblings stayed behind. I thought it’s automatic when you come with wife and a child that you’re given asylum as a family.

    • Guest says:

      Yeh, it does extend like that.

    • otterdaughter says:

      anzor and zu founded a company called something like credit collections bureau when they first arrived in states. what became of it, idk, but i know that’s a good money laundering business. just something that struck me as out of place about it.

      i have wondered if anzor was tamerlan’s bio father. the fact that they were married on 10/20 and tt was born the next day always seemed weird to me. Plus, tt looks nothing like his siblings, and he’s so much bigger than the other males in that family…

      they’re all too articulate and comfortable speaking on camera to be simple folks, imo.

    • HAMMER says:

      Yep – interesting – Tamerlan a washed up boxer breaking bones for loan shark dad? Hmm where have we heard that before? (I know I am reaching – couldnt help it – just so American).
      The biology question though is obvious – you cant help but notice it – and then ignore it and move on.
      ya gotta link? Missie would want me to ask – she kind of keeps tracks of our sources….

    • otterdaughter says:

      i can source the credit business thing, but the rest is speculation.

      one thing i could never understand is why the strap of jt’s pack was all gerrymandered the way it was. i have never seen it done like that, the second strap over the shoulder strap, and it looks like he added more strap in front, and what the hell is all going on there? it looks purposeful.

      then i saw this video. i do think it a good idea to see this vid eventually, but what’s germaine right now is at 1:55

      see what you think. got my heart pounding!

      http://vimeo.com/41709220#

    • HAMMER says:

      wow – I dont know what to make of it. Ever since DHS made that little mouse like announcement in the back pages of the Globe in June – I have had my doubts. I expressed then openly – that if any of this was Urban Shield our efforts were futile – because we would never know the difference between what was fabricated and what was real. The same thing can be said today. But I do think we are closer to saying today whether fabricated or real – and there is a difference.

    • GUESTST says:

      C it is making me insane, the guessing. Was rereading from early days when we were told LE was looking for one or two dark skinned males. Then switched over to the bros and nary a peep to question. So if the location front of forum was selected for thinner crowd and good visibility from lord and Taylor surveillance video was it a drill or a setup might DT have taken the pack and location ( one or both) meant for TT? The only photo I trust is seale’s showing DT was present. If TT had been the one at forum, we would have no DT photos. TT would have been killed in watertown quite possibly and that would have wrapped up the case. therev would now be no visual evidence against DT at the race finish. Our conversation would be different. Is it possible the story about TT was already assembled

    • HAMMER says:

      that is an interesting twist – had not thought of that before. But its plausible if the photos are all shopped. Explains why they all look like a shop of a shop and everyone is pulling thier hair out wondering WTF?

    • Guest says:

      …a shop of a shop of a shop of a composite assembled from god-knows-what. Including….those fake railings are (by sheer fluke of circumstance of course…) identical to the barrier railings. Fancy that ….! I don’t think that even The Contour Twins knew that, and they were right on the spot..

    • Renny says:

      Heh, so you agree with me on the railings?

    • Guest says:

      Absolutely, Renny – from the outset ! That’s what I meant when I said I knew we were on the same wavelength….part of why I wanted you credited in the write-up. It’s exactly those sort of details that betray the fraud, but if we don’t spot them,we’re knackered, we’d get nowhere. The more we spot, the better. I hesitate to mention anything to do with entertainment in this case, but it really is like Columbo – the tiny details, the seemingly insignificant errors, that’s where most of it’s at.

      I thought I mentioned it off-thread, but I can’t be sure. Maybe it’s in the draft of my next reply.

      The runners in the Bob Leonard photos crossing the line BEFORE the timestamp of the Bob Leonard shots: the BL shots stamped at 14:41 – 14:42..that particular correspondence with Genck’s description of the brothers’ specific movements, with Genck specifically mentioning 14:41 – 14:42…all tiny details, but enough to raise my suspicions that there was no surveillance footage as alleged. Genck was relying on the BL images and had no way of knowing that the times were wrong. If there’d been all this ‘surveillance footage’ for real, the fact of the error would have surfaced, and Genck would not have been reliant on it. No surveillance (or at least no USEFUL surveillance). After Bob Leonard, there’s virtually nothing. Even the only attribuatable fleeting glimpses of the brothers subsequent to that were all shots from civilians.

      Tiny details can be priceless, and you’re good at it.

    • Renny says:

      I actually did my own calculations regarding their movements, based on the assumption that the Whiskey’s camera was correctly timestamped – 14:37:40. I did calculations for slow walk and fast walk, and according to both they were at Back Bay at around 14:38. So, yeah, BL shots have a wrong timestamp. If you’re right and Mr. Genck based his claims on these photos, it’s quite astonishing, because he could have just Googled the distance between Back Bay and Forum to realize that (as you have pointed out in your False Gods post) the brothers couldn’t have walked 200 metres in 15 seconds. As you say, the times of the runners prove it as well. I’m trying to give Mr. Genck the benefit of a doubt by assuming he saw some sort of surveillance which showed the brothers at 14:41 at Atlantic Fish. Thus stating they were in the front of Forum in 15 seconds, which according to Google is the walking distance between Atlantic Fish and Forum. I don’t think he ever saw the brothers anywhere past Atlantic Fish though.

    • Guest says:

      …and if you slice it the other way, it still doesn’t work, because Genck does not specify what ‘one half-block’ actually is. He doesn’t name the business premises in front of which the brothers were standing before their 15-second stride to the Forum. There’s landmarks all over the place. Traffic lights, pedestrian crossing markings, the junction with the Ring Road, clearly-identifiable businesses…but instead we have ‘approximately half-way’,,,’approximately one half-block’….’approximately 15 seconds’…

      If he’s seen them at Atlantic Fish at 14:41, then they could have got to the Forum in 15 seconds, but that makes the block some 60m shorter than it actually is. Surveillance ?

      They never thought to Google anything. It’s not the fact of an error, but its sheer magnitude that’s surreal. I’ve done a post entitled ‘Brothers Tarnaev vs, Usain Bolt’, but it’s not up yet. Must post….

    • Renny says:

      I don’t know where he got this “half-block” from. Forum is not half-block from anywhere, it actually is one full block from Back Bay if not further. He probably never looked at a map. Could he be prosecuted for false statements? He signed it without confirming the basic facts…

    • Guest says:

      That’s what I’ve wondered for months. The problem is, I think, that prosecutions go forwards on ‘best evidence’, with things like criminal complaints and their affidavits consigned to hearsay status – inadmissible, so don’t have to be accounted for by whoever signed them. The difficulty now is that the new ‘best evidence’ is far less detailed than that claimed in the criminal complaint. However, (and I don’t know much about law) there may be a mechanism by which whoever signed the affidavit could be questioned in the context of ‘fitness to testify’…possible impeachment of Govt. witnesses.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I’ve seen them Renny. Against my better instinct I have to say yes. I agree with you about those railings…

    • Renny says:

      Great! That’s 3 of us! Why is it against your better instinct?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Because………I never see anything that people claim to be shopped unless it’s undeniable and backed up with data. Then I always look for an alternative reason just to be sure. Those railings are….those railings…

    • Renny says:

      Right. That’s a sensible approach. In my country there’s a saying “Do trust, but always check”. I think with those railings there’s no way around it though.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I have to agree. there is no way round it. And I’ve tried to find one I can tell you that much. Can you scroll down and give me your opinion on the friend in the gym I just posted about please.

    • otterdaughter says:

      that motherf34ker could not look more similar to tamerlan’s backpack!!
      i know it isn’t the backpack, but it just had to look super close…just to taunt us!!!!

    • otterdaughter says:

      before the bmb, i never even heard the term false flag! this event woke me up.

      and i’m old! too old for a paradigm shift!
      i believe there is a difference…just harder to discern these days.

      that’s the most nefarious purpose of the disinfo campaign: to make us question our judgement

    • abbeysbooks says:

      In simulated Reality there is only credibility. Judgement becomes impossible. The signifier and the signified are now detached and floating free.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Pure Nazi propaganda eh. One ideology after another.

    • Guest says:

      I think that most, if not all families have somebody who appears not to fit. But then going sideways or backwards in the family tree you often see where it comes from.

    • guest says:

      You do know that he was a lawyer in Russia, right?

  29. Baby Blake says:

    Just returned from a good 30min diving mission down thread. Does anyone have to hand that pic showing the face of the friend at the gym with TT and DT three days before the bombings? It’s a massive long shot but I think I may have something…in Chechnia.
    No worries if not – I will attempt another mission if needs be.

    • Missie Baker says:

      This photo?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Oh! And there it is! Thanks Missy. I thought I saw a pic of a guy in Chechnia who looks like him- and he does. Will get back 2 you.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      More on bags for you BB: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/10/boston-police-bomb-squad/#comment-1097037026

      “Brown is a big man, with long arms and a loping step. As it happened, his unit had recently conducted intensive counterterrorism training with a retired Israeli bomb technician who taught them how to quickly assess and cut into suspicious packages found near victims at a still-warm blast scene. During the simulation, the dozen bags that needed to be cleared looked overwhelming. Now there were hundreds.”

    • Guest says:

      Thanks AB – interesting catch. All those big black backpacks on those private security operatives, eh ?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      So many left he had to call for reinforcements to help him look. Now how would anyone tie them to the Tsarnaevs? This 7 hour documentary is a killer. Coach says he saw it but I never know if that is to insult me or because he really did. But even if you have seen it, to watch it retrospectively after having noticed all the little details it is enriched tenfold. I am at 4 hours 8 minutes and have just finished almost with the Watertown police talking about killing and capturing Tsarnaevs. The interviewer is off to me, as if he is pretending to be an interviewer and the cops are just spontaneous and joyous. And I can’t tell if they were in on it or not. Surely they know about all the bullets they fired and how the houses were strafed as if in a war zone. This kid is very good though. Most of it is his reading prepared text that is dense and accurate IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjX8KBZ0VY Danny as a Chinese with his face blurred out. Now that’s strange. I want to post it and link to all sorts of other stuff.

    • Guest says:

      Danny as ANYTHING in the shadows….

    • abbeysbooks says:

      In the 7 hour documentary by the young man/boy he begins with Glenn Beck who is showing surveillance videos put out by the FBI. In that now famous shot of the Tsarnaevs salking one behind the other along, Beck shows a man in the shadows who picks up his earphone/telephone and makes a call. He comments that the man who has an ear piece is telling someone that they have just walked by. In this photo both have their backpacks on and it is before the explosion. When the shot is picked up by another video camera from the other direction, the man in the shadows has his face blurred. Beck is harping on this. See they don’t want you to know who he is, the one with the ear piece sho made a call as soon as the Tsarnaev brothers walked by. Who is this man he says.

      This is just one small segment. O’Reilley and Beck are figuring that the Tea Party will be set up and blamed for this. Beck is saying he thinks these two walking by with backbacks, one who is wearing a white hat, are the ones who will be the patsies. And he calls them patsies. All this is surprising to me for sure.

      “Danny” is completely blurred out and I forget where in the tape he is now but it is maybe 3 hours, 2 hours? and he has a Chinese accent but not the kind I have heard and I lived in Singapore for about a year. He says he gts out of the car, Tamerlan tries to grap him, while Dzhokhar is in the convenience store, and he runs and doesn’t look back. But where does he run. Just across the street to the Shell station (think it is Shell) and tells him in there to call 9-11 that the bombers are over there in his car that they hijacked from him. The interviewer tells him he is the hero but he says the cops are the real heroes.

      I see now there is no real packaged truth in this. Each person will have to look at pieces and fragments and come to their own truth and it is going to be for different reasons for everyone. There is a moment in this when you SHIFT. When what you were thinking before and suddenly are not thinking that anymore but are feeling the mental ground beneath you start to move. For me it was Dave’s site and reading 18 fuggin posts with after bombing images and his text. There was just too much there for me to continue to believe it was all a real bombing and that the official narrative based on what people at the scene said, didn’t match the images.

      The people we think are dead may be in fact dead. They may also be living somewhere else with different identities. This seems to be what they are doing with Miriam Carey’s 1 year old daughter they are holding in foster care.

      The impressive thing about this 7 hour documentary is that other things are tied in with it. The Boston Marathon Bombing does not stand alone in govt perfidy.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      And everybody else who just left them as they ran. Hundreds of them, thousands. 6 blocks of them.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Something more on this. Now John Allen has stepped out and given his recent interviews this pic is being touted as the brothers with an as ‘as yet unidentified man’. Example here: http://wgbhnews.org/post/allston-gym-owner-talks-about-former-regulars-tsarnaevs-todashev
      Why so? We were told this guy was traced immediately, interviewed by FEDS and declared a totally innocent party. It was the subject of some of my ‘training for jihad’ post. How were they training for jihad if the guy who was with them new nothing and had just come along for the ride and a couple of hours at the gym?
      Back to the unidentified man part – he HAS been identified, yet now we’re told he hasn’t? Confused.

      EDIT: Also, I enhanced this pic to bring out more detail of the face (wont bother posting unless anyone wants desperately to see it). What looks like a wrinkle/crease on the left side of his face (as we look at it) is not. It’s actually a dirty great scar. Looks like someone really didn’t like this dude – he’s been slashed across the face.

    • Renny says:

      Well, they obviously didn’t “train for jihad”, they just went to a gym with someone they knew. He looks Chechen and I have a feeling I’ve seen him somewhere, but can’t remember where.

      As to the “unidentified man” part – it’s my understanding that when someone is photographed with people accused of a crime and it’s determined he’s not involved, they hide the face and call them “unidentified” in order to protect them. If he’s not part of the investigation, there’s no need to identify him publicly. Obviously, FBI had identified him, they know who he is. But there’s no need for us to know.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes – I understand that to be the case also. However, when these still were first released this guy face was totally blurred out and he was referred to as ‘identified’ but nothing to do with the bombings. Now this has emerged showing his ACTUAL face and we’re back to ‘an unidentified man’ again. IDK

      And yes he was described as a ‘Chechen male’ at the time – I thought I’d seen him too – in Chechnia! Not the same man unless he got that awful scar after the first pic was took.

    • Renny says:

      Yes, I find it weird that they’re showing his face now. If he’s got nothing to do with the bombings there’s no reason to show his face. If he’s got something to do with the bombings then they should be able to identify him. Unless they lied when they said they identified him? Or they did identify him, but only later found out that he lied to them?

      It is also a way how to engage the public – to make someone come forward with information regarding this individual. They show his face, say he’s unidentified – and right away you have people calling the FEDs – I know him, I saw him there and there,….

    • guest says:

      It was MSM speculation that they were training for jihad, nothing more. It wasn’t an established fact – just MSM propaganda machine using speculation that was suggested by the owner’s comment about the beard and then blown up by the media. Most people understand that.

  30. HAMMER says:

    Good work today – team I need some time to pull it together and add to my post. Its getting close to the 800 lb gorilla hour too – so I am taking my leave.

    • Baby Blake says:

      See Ya.

    • Guest says:

      Nice one coach – and I won’t do anything rash. I’m cool with it.

    • Missie Baker says:

      S: Were you, BB, and Renny having a convo down thread about the Forum tree and damage it suffered relative to possible placement of the bag? Looking for another photo for a mystery I cannot fathom re: the Roberts video, I found this extremely clear image of the front and side view of the tree for your collection. All: it is a very, very graphic image immediately after the explosion at the Forum–be warned. Tree shows effects of… something.

    • Guest says:

      Thanks M.

      I agree. There’s a dark patch just above the right arm of the person on the ground next to Mr.Richard. It’s extremely difficult to ascertain what it is – many possibilities. I’ll go back to the other tree images for a closer look. BabyB’s the one for this job.

    • Renny says:

      From the Forum side, you can’t see the bottom part of the tree though.

    • Guest says:

      True, true. I’ll send you those tree pictures, R. It’s possible that what’s on this one is some quirk of the angle, light, etc. Too difficult to know for sure. But I do remember BabyB’s opinion that it would be the base of the tree that took the real hammering.

    • Renny says:

      It also ocurred to me that if the real bomb pack was at the back of the tree, rather than in front or on side, it would be more difficult to spot it from the other side of the street. So, Mr. Genck could claim that he couldn’t discern anything else other than the backpack in that photo. He doesn’t say anything about what he could discern from his “chilling” surveillance video that noone except of him has ever seen.

    • Guest says:

      Indeed indeed Renny. We’re all on the same side as Genck on this one. Nobody on earth could have discerned anything else that may have caused the explosion.

      The only difference is the reason. Genck omitted to mention that, like the rest of humanity, he had no way of seeing what was further back, obscured, or behind other solid objects. Language and meaning: his conclusion was not based on having exhausted all possibilities – but that’s just a detail, eh ? The other interesting detail is that Genck never claimed to have seen Dzh.T dropping a backpack, only that he was ‘apparently’ doing so. That’s a get-out should it all fall apart.

    • Renny says:

      The word “apparently” bothered me from the get-go. If he cannot say categorically that Dzh.T dropped his backpack and that it’s visible on the video, then he doesn’t have any evidence! It’s another thing that Mr. Genck cannot “discern” from what he sees. It looks like he was told that is what he saw on the video – but because he didn’t really see it, he put the word “apparently” to cover his a** in case someone in the future will actually have a look at the video and ask where exactly did he see it. I’m wondering if the defense was given the video, what could they see in it.

    • Guest says:

      To be human is to err……but WHAT video ? Should it be lost or destroyed in an unfortunate bureaucratic oversight, there’s always the remote backup held by the companies that have the CCTV contracts. It’s all part of a good service.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I was reading in some of the court documents and the defence do seem to have seen a video of DT putting his bag on the ground.

    • Renny says:

      I’ve read it as well. That’s why I’m saying I think there is a surveillance video that shows him putting his bag on the ground. But he doesn’t do it in front of Forum.

  31. HAMMER says:

    here is the Grassley letter:

    http://www.myfoxboston.com/link/663584/chuck-grassley-letter

    EDIT: now the FBI press release answers part of this – has there been a full on the record response that has been posted?

    • HAMMER says:

      Here is the fox news article and below see the FBI pressor

      I especially like the last line –

      There has been recent reporting relating to whether or not the FBI, Boston Police, Massachusetts State Police or other members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force knew the identities of the bombers before the shootout with the alleged marathon bombing suspects, and were conducting physical surveillance of them on April 18, 2013.

      So – hey dude! what about surveillance on the 17th, the 16th or the 15th? Hmmm?

    • Guest says:

      ‘Recent’ ? !!!

    • HAMMER says:

      Did you notice the spa has closed?

      EDIT: “recently” closed.

      you recall the rumor of the spa girl who reported that Tamerlan had told her about being involved in a drill at the BM. She did not want to be named. Most just tossed this as unverifiable – well now isnt this interesting? A spa exists or existed not far from him.

    • Baby Blake says:

      He had a massage the day before the bombings.

      Not 100% on this next bit because it was ages ago and was something I was even connecting to anything suspicious at the time but…folks on twitter had a pic and name I think. Shall I enquire?

    • HAMMER says:

      its worth a snoop –

    • Guest says:

      I do indeed recall that. Quite a lively social scene down there….

    • Baby Blake says:

      There was this from her social media account although I cant vouch for how true the assertion is. Must be some way to verify this surely?

    • Guest says:

      Hmmm…..
      But before I finally turn in, I realised I nearly laughed myself to death at my total lack of surprise that you had set foot in one of those ‘extreme fighting’ gyms. And it’s not even the Avatar….

    • Baby Blake says:

      I live across the road from one! Been in there loads but I daren’t tell you why!

    • Guest says:

      I daren’t ask ! I just posted above – probably on the wider orbit of lunacy, but ya never know….

    • Guest says:

      This is very left-field, but…those numbers/letters look like hex code, and probably are, but looking just at the numbers, we have an area code for Connecticut, and 6 further numbers of a 10-digit number. ‘asked where he lived, he said Boston, I was surprised i’m not in bostion’.

      Worth a shot ? With only one number missing, there’s only 10 possibilities. It’s probably a blind alley, but ya never know…
      I don’t own an ipad or any of those devices so i don’t know how it works. But, maybe all these things have an associated phone number…

    • Baby Blake says:

      I had no idea! I have been furiously typing in those things to search engines seeing if they come up with a tumbler or facebook account post etc! Predictably zilch! Now, what set of numbers are you talking about (I see two) and what the hell is a hex code?

    • Guest says:

      hexcode is a computer-nerd thing, though I’ve come across it in digital electronics.

      Hex may be nothing to do with it, but the numbers I have are 860 650 587….so there’d be one missing. 860 is for the north-eastern end of CT.

      I have to crash: been up too long and am going cross-eyed. See ya tomorrah.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Don’t know, but questionable to me. :(

    • HAMMER says:

      Hey – as I said above most just tossed this because no one could verify this.
      But and its a beautiful BUT – there was a Russian Spa in that same neighborhood (that is now closed) literally around the corner from 38 Pratt (rumored residence) a couple of blocks from Wai Kru – and the carjacking spot – and something else Saunders spotted in the neighborhood but it slips my mind right now. The pounding fighters take always requires massage and chiropractic adjustments – Its not far fetched to think he would go there for a massage after heavy workouts – preferring a woman rather than a trainer to do that.
      Since she hasnt or wont or cant come forward – not sure where to go – BUT it’s a piece of information you cant simply dismiss. We have a lot of those hanging around.

    • Missie Baker says:

      C: You know, I was once again struck by the angle of this camera atop Lord & Taylor–it is so perfectly positioned to catch someone in front of Forum, and we’ve read numerous accounts in the days immediately following the explosions of the L&T surveillance camera capturing the suspect with the white cap. (who so conveniently stood in place for several minutes before the explosion.) Even if you didn’t believe a training drill was a possibility, looking at this photo taken behind the L&T surveillance camera focused on Forum’s sidewalk, it’s hard not to believe the Urban Shield team selected this spot to get a good video for LE teams to use in the exercise–not too much detail in the faces it captured, either.. Explains standing around–if DT was even there–Saunders keeps coming up with data on those official photos.
      Coach, I am almost a believer….

    • HAMMER says:

      it only took 6 months to get this far – you mean I’m in for another 6 to persuade you all the way? oh lordy! LOL

    • Missie Baker says:

      ‘fraid so–you know how skeptical I am…but I am getting closer–no longer think you are a crazy ol’ dino—HA, HA, HA—had to tease you on that one.
      Maybe in 6 months I’ll be joining you all at the prison gates to welcome DT, lifting a phrase Mrs. P. once used… :)

    • Baby Blake says:

      I’m the same as you M. maybe it’s a female thing? took me six months to get this far too. Still sceptical!

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Yep. They were ready. And they had the Tsarnaevs in their sights to take the fall.

    • Guest says:

      Indeed indeed Missie.

      You can’t blink round there for cameras. Lord & Taylor, there’s a BANK right opposite the Forum, T-junction with the RingRoad, so even more traffic cameras than usual. You can’t miss. It was scheduled for 3pm, Dzh.T waited outside Atlantic Fish, BOOM. He never got to do his part in the drill, and legged it like everybody else. FBI doesn’t know what the blazes has gone wrong, and because of the hijack, Dzh.T was not seen on surveillance as alleged. He was still waiting outside Atlantic Fish. FBI gets a tip from whoever’s behind this, and they’re then so in awe with gratitude that their collective a***s have been saved that they will now believe anything they’re told by their self-appointed guardian angel. No questions asked, no stopping to think. Abracadabra, the ‘guardian angel’ now controls and steers the ‘investigation’ from then on and the FEDs don’t even know it. The flanker’s already been worked and now there’s no going back. They’ve unknowingly abdicated responsibility. But they really do think they’re chasing terrorists. It’s their only hope, so they’re only too ready to remain deluded. No damning surveillance, so something has to be conjured up. Hence the murky history and questionable nature of the images they released, and the insistence that the Tsarnaevs were the only suspects.

      As that’s the only ACCEPTABLE scenario in terms of ‘maintaining public confidence in LE’ (ahem !), damage control, et cetera, they try to insist that this is the only POSSIBLE scenario, trying to equate the two in the minds of the public. It serves a much bigger agenda on the lines of ‘whatever gets imposed, you can trust LE’. The locals were duped.

      But that’s just a hypothesis.
      In the later aftermath, who exactly has replaced all those officials who were stood down ? What are their allegiances ?

    • Renny says:

      That’s what I think as well. The FEDs believed they had their men who hijacked the drill.
      Now, what I don’t understand is the sequence of events from Wednesday on. Wednesday evening the FEDs call Tamerlan and tell him that he’s the suspect and he should come to their offices for a chat. He says “that’s your problem, I’m not coming.” Then, instead of going straight away to his house before he flees, they let him be. He drives his bro back to college, DT goes to the gym and a party.
      Next morning, DT goes to school and after school he drives his friend home and then goes to Tamerlan’s apartment.
      And the FEDs are still in no hurry to do anything. At 5pm they show the pics of the bros on TV, saying they have no clue who these people are.
      So, it’s not just the FEDs who are in no hurry to catch their “suspects”. The “suspects” are in no hurry to run. We don’t know what the bros were doing or where they went, until DT withdraws the money from the ATM and is caught on camera.

      The only explanation is as you posted down the thread: Watertown was a continuation of the drill, the FEDs wanted the bros to believe that everything was going fine and the bros believed this was still part of the drill, even seeing their pics on TV was OK for them. But they were duped.

    • HAMMER says:

      http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2013/04/29/washington-civil-society-cia-financing-chechen-other-regional-terrorists.html
      This is long – but the last 1/3 of it is priceless.
      What was the name of the Urban Shield fake terrorist cell?

    • Renny says:

      I’ve heard this website is connected to the Russian intelligence sources.

      The name was “Free America Citizens” – a homegrown terrorist group…

    • HAMMER says:

      I wasnt concerned about the web site as much as I was about what Madsen was saying did you read that last 1/3 – Crikey!
      Both freagin uncles are spooks – what does that make Anzor for reals?

    • Renny says:

      What I meant was that the website has got the information from the Russian intelligence services – it’s not just someone making stuff up. And yeah I believe I read it somewhere before. Sibel Edmonds is the best for this kind of info about all the so called NGOs operating in Chechnya. There’s a reason why Putin banned USAID in Russia. He knows very well what they’re doing there.
      Regarding Anzor, I remember an interview – kind of – where he stated that he was trying to contact both his brothers right after DT was caught, but neither of his brothers was answering the phone. To me it looks like he’s the black sheep of the family, the loser, and his own brothers threw him and his family under the bus. Because they didn’t want to be part of the spook network ????

    • Guest says:

      Quite possible. According to the uncle Alvi, TT’s last phone call to him was to apologise for his part in the well-publicised family rift. And to be fair, Alvi said from the outset that he believed that the brothers had not done it, and that it was ludicrous to suggest that they had. Quite the opposite from his Maryland brother. He said that he hadn’t spoken to Anzor for a few years, they’d disagreed over something, et cetera, but that after Boston, everything’s changed.

      Meantime, Anzor was freezing to his bones fixing cars and having to accept a favour from whoever’s yard he was working in, and having to apply for and accept public assistance. If he was ever offered ‘something better’, he’d have had a very good reason for turning it down. Maybe he just couldn’t be bought, which was then framed as stupidity, ingratitude, and pig-headed determination to remain a ‘loser’, in terms of money, possessions, lack of ambition, social status, et cetera. To be a ‘loser’ requires that there’s a winner – defined within the framework of a set of values and priorities.

    • Renny says:

      Yep, that’s what I meant. Anzor would rather work hard and not get involved in the “Chechen business” his brothers were involved in. Maybe the way he was treated in Kyrgyzstan taught him a lesson? Uncle Ruslan stated that he was the one who helped the whole family – his brothers and sister – to get to the US. And he probably expected something from them in exchange? And Anzor wasn’t willing to do that and didn’t want his children to be part of it? So, when Tamerlan refused to go to Kazakhstan in 2008, as his uncle wished, Ruslan just decided “to the hell with you” and broke all the contact with the family. And that’s when FBI started following Tamerlan, according to Momma T. He kept refusing them until last year when he was left without a passport and in trouble with the Russian intelligence. He didn’t have a choice.

    • Guest says:

      Like I said Renny – I knew we were on the same wavelength… ;)

    • Guest says:

      I did read it……what are Madsen’s (apparent) alliegences ?

    • HAMMER says:

      Hey Renny – have you been able to find out any more about Todashev and his wife in Georgia?

    • Renny says:

      As I said downthread, the evidence she claims to have are joint account statements that prove he was with her in Georgia.

    • Renny says:

      In earlier interviews she was stating this:

      “She said Mr. Todashev spent the summer of 2011 in Boston because of a
      transportation job he landed there. She says she believes her husband
      returned to Florida before September 2011—when the triple murder took
      place—but she’s not sure about the exact dates.”

      http://deepsixcover.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/reni-manukyan-wife-of-chechen-man-killed-in-fbi-probe-speaks-out/

      It’s obviously possible that she found the bank statements later on when she was trying to get some kind of evidence about the exact date when he had come back to Atlanta. They moved to Florida in October 2011.

    • HAMMER says:

      Thanks Renny – this from the Wayne Madsen article:

      Another U.S.-based group that has championed the Chechen movement, regardless of the presence of terrorist entities, is the American Committee for Peace in the Caucasus (ACPC), formerly known as the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya. The ACPC was founded in 1999 by Freedom House, a Cold War right-wing group that has been financed by the National Endowment for Democracy and USAID-funded groups. The ACPC has defended the political asylum in the U.S. of former Chechen Foreign Minister Ilyas Akhmadov, accused of past terrorist links. The ACPC and Freedom House work with the Jamestown Foundation, founded in 1984 by CIA director William Casey, along with high-ranking intelligence defectors from the Soviet Union, Romania, Poland, and Czechoslovakia.
      The co-winky dinks just keep piling up folks.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Always does it. How do you do that? I want to learn?!?!? Recent…….
      Never spotted it.

    • Guest says:

      You’re already doing it. you attacked ‘APPARENTLY slipping off the backpack and placing it on the ground’.

      It can’t be taught – it’s a useful component of lunacy….and long experience in dealing with deviant bureaucracy. ‘Unfortunate bureaucratic oversight…from which lessons have been learned’. In precisely what way ‘unfortunate’ ? What caused the bad luck ? Who was it that got unlucky ? and why ? What lessons have been learned, and by whom ?

      ‘The US intelligence service IS not spying on Merkel, and WILL NOT be spying on Merkel’. As I recall, the question was has it been going on already. Deliberate answering of a different question: evasion dressed as honesty and clarity.

      ‘Recent’…HOW recent ?

      It’s like those walk-in clinics that have sprung up here over the last few years. They’re ‘nurse-led’. Ask ’em if there’s any doctors, and they keep saying that it’s nurse-led. ‘Nuff said.

      You should do another article on this sort of nonsense. Right when you did your piece on coercion and control, there was a radio interview here: extraordinary rendition, solitary confinement et c. The euphemisms would have us all flocking to be there for our holidays. People are not isolated and cornered, they are enabled to focus on how they are going to deal with Us.

      That’s the same cowardice and hypocrisy that infests the language surrounding the death penalty. ‘It’s quick, it’s clean, it’s safe….and therefore humane.’

      You’re already doing it, BabyB.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes – I referenced it on the blog in my last post C.

    • Guest says:

      Didn’t the FBI omit to reply directly to (Senator ?) Keating’s enquiries, preferring instead to place a ‘response’ in one of the New York dailies ?

  32. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Last man standing.

    • Baby Blake says:

      ..and hot on the tails of that… For the FBI Informant interested crowd…

      “”FBI Pressures Muslims on No-Fly List to Become Informants in Exchange for Travel Rights”””

      “”Muhammad Tanvir from the Bronx refused to spy on his Pakistani community, so he remains on the no-fly list, preventing him from seeing his ailing mother.””

      http://www.alternet.org/fbi-pressures-muslims-no-fly-list

    • HAMMER says:

      excuse me – If I may speculate: Mr. Tsarnaev? How would you like to box in the golden gloves and possibly represent the US in the next Olympics? We have waaaaays of fixing these things you know?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      …and should you be reluctant, ways of making you an offer you can’t resist….

    • otterdaughter says:

      a beautiful baby girl ought to turn that reluctance right around.

    • Guest says:

      Exactly. Monstrous.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Coach, do you recall exactly where the WAI-KRU is located, and what sort of neighbourhood it is ? 38

    • HAMMER says:

      WAI KRU

      Mailing
      Address:

      236 Brighton Avenue

      Allston, Massachusetts 02134

      Telephone:

      (617) 254.2222

      Email:

      info@waikru.com

    • HAMMER says:

      Looks to be suburban – business district – no hi-rises – well kept streets – upper working class

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Head offline, connect via BabyB….

    • guest says:

      Allston is a neighborhood of boston and fairly urban (not in a downtown sense, but there aren’t lots of single families with yards like in the suburbs). Lots of students.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks.

    • otterdaughter says:

      alford plea can be used pre-conviction

      source for early version of danny’s tale:
      http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lz517a8258.png

    • otterdaughter says:

      sorry, looks like 2 guests online…i think i’m in red letters.
      gym is on brighton ave. which just happens to be one of the places danny claims the carjacking took place. i’ll source it.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Guest, you could always become ‘real’ you know. We don’t bite! Well, my avatar might but that’s a different story…

    • otterdaughter says:

      i did some time back, but i have some serious problems with discus and i’ve given up messing with it. but thank you & your avatar!

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I read back on your disqus. When you break into the Dominating Discourse at a site they want to kill you and getting rid of you is the best way. This thing is so convoluted I don’t think any one person knows the whole story. We have reality and simulated fused just as in the Herzog produced film The Act of Killing. I see no difference really. Tabloids right now have JFK stuff on the covers today. His autopsy. Just read the Doctor in emergency at Parkview (?) in Dallas who wrote a book about it. The official narrative of JFK’s body was not the body he had seen in Dallas. And they told him to shut the fug up. He did until he was old but by then no one cared. If you read the Warren Report all the way through you get to really see how dumb Congress is by the questions they asked. Hardly an intelligent one in the book.

    • Baby Blake says:

      ‘Yes please’. Plays ball for a while – no Golden Gloves or Olympics on the horizon. Tells them to get notted and refuses to speak to them anymore. And then the fun begins……

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman: exposed the NYC operations of spying on Muslims, and trying to get Muslims to spy on other Muslims. Mosques, local businesses, et c. Plenty of money thrown at it, not a single terrorist lead.

  33. HAMMER says:

    Good Morning all:

    Woke up this morning and something is niggling at me again –

    in the last week we have –

    1) Senator Grassley – asking some good questions of the FBI and reporting that there was some kind of surveillance going on at MIT just a block or so away from the 711 and a blocks away from Stata. His digging elicited this responce:

    Law enforcement officials want to make it “absolutely clear” that they were not conducting any sort of surveillance on the alleged Boston Marathon bombers after the April 15 attack.

    “There has been recent reporting relating to whether or not the FBI, Boston Police, Massachusetts State Police or other members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force knew the identities of the bombers before the shootout with the alleged marathon bombing suspects, and were conducting physical surveillance of them on April 18,” officials said in a joint press release on Friday. “These claims have been repeatedly refuted by the FBI, Boston Police, and Massachusetts State Police.”

    2) Brandon Mess’s girlfriend is reported as saying:

    The woman said Tsarnaev, who was born and lived his early years in former Soviet republics, had told Mess in the weeks before the killings that the FBI had placed him on a terrorist watch list.

    “Brendan said, ‘The FBI is watching him; they think he’s a terrorist,’ ’’ the woman recalled. “We laughed about it. We never took it seriously.’’

    Federal authorities have said that the FBI interviewed Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of the Russian government. (may 25 orlando sentinal)
    (So we know that is actually the second confirmation the FBI lied about previous knowledge and surveillance of Tamerlan – Momma T being the first)

    3) When Tameraln went to Russia he met up a Canadian Boxer- a friend from back here – who was fighting in the Chechen cause – and just days before Tamerlan to come home – this Canadian friend was killed (someone help me out here – fill in the blank. )

    So -we have three friends – Canadian dude, Brendan Mess, and Todashev – all fighters, all practicing Islamic and we know at least two of the three knew about Tamerlans “association” with the FBI – ALL THREE DEAD…..
    What do you think the odds are that Todashev – whose father was some big wig back in Russian also knew.

    Now all Four are dead – You dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to at least wonder – What did Tamerlan know that got them all so damn dead in a few short years….?

    And then you have the FBI wetting themselves over what they knew and when they knew it regarding Tamerlan at every turn in the road. Why?

    Someone else said here down thread that you dont disclose your associations with the FBI – or else…is that what he have going here. Was he such a blabber mouth he got the friends of his he told – killed. And then he himself was determined to be a liability and spent too?

    • HAMMER says:

      BB – are you going to follow up that information, photographs Todashevs wife supposedly has that proves he was in Georgia when the Waltham murders went down?

    • Renny says:

      I found her VKontakte profile – sort of Russian Facebook. I’ll see what I can get.

    • HAMMER says:

      the commenter I quoted from Firedoglake said it was the CAIR guy who claimed to have the pictures – I suppose he got them from her too – but just saying – fyi

    • Renny says:

      Yep, I know, but the CAIR guy wouldn’t publish it, would he? I’m just going through her profile, maybe I’ll find something about any photos…you think she would keep them secret, if she had them? If I was her I would post them everywhere…she’s back in Russia, the FBI won’t go there after her…

    • Truth Serum says:

      Just an FYI..She does have a mother who lives here in the US….She is disabled Army and they have ripped her benefits away from her…putting the heat on…So I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting access to those pictures..Hate to burst your bubbles as you all do a great job!!!! .This is Reni’s Sister’s Tumblr…http://yana-whoknwz.tumblr.com/post/56429143269/fbi-is-trying-to-ruin-our-family maybe you can touch base with her?

    • Renny says:

      I was just going to post that link :)

      Thank you.

      Anyway here are their thoughts on why Ibragim was killed:

      “The FBI apparently wanted Ibragim Todashev to sign a false witness statement implicating the Tsarnaev patsies. Todashev refused, presumably because he (like everyone else who knew the brothers) was convinced of their innocence. So the FBI murdered
      Todashev, execution-style, as a message to others involved in the case:
      “Cooperate with our frame-up of the Tsarnaevs, or else…”

    • Renny says:

      So, it’s possibly bank records that she’s got:

      “Sources have said the two men were also involved in an unsolved triple homicide two years ago in Waltham, Massachusetts, but Manukyan said joint bank statements prove Todashev was with her in Atlanta at the time of the 2011 slayings.”

      http://www.clickorlando.com/news/council-of-american-islamic-relations-calls-for-probe-into-fbi-shooting/-/1637132/20347442/-/krp0u6z/-/index.html

    • HAMMER says:

      I am beginning to think this is – or is close to the nub of it all. These three guys lives intersect with Tamerlan and at various stages afterwards end up dead…DzhT obviously knows something, but maybe not as much and thats why they are keeping him from knowing anymore?

    • Missie Baker says:

      William Plotnikov http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57582145/tamerlan-tsarnaev-canadian-militant-followed-similar-paths/
      Do you remember if John Allan of Wai-Kru said he knew Plotnikov in his NPR interview? (I don’t believe he did.)

    • HAMMER says:

      he did not mention him.

      EDIT: BUT – I dont know if he was asked either?
      It would be interesting to know how TT knew him ? If TT was gym rat like it sounds – when he was fighting – then it had to be through Allen and his gym??? Might be worth following up?

    • guest says:

      everything reported on the connection was that they knew each other through social media – being Chechen and boxers and that TT may or may not have met him in person in Toronto while visiting his aunt. I don’t think there has been any suggestion that Plotnikov had been in Boston.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Hmm, but couldn’t they have met at boxing matches? Sounds like TT was very active until he dropped out in 2009, either because of changes in the rules, or because of a back injury or both.

    • Guest says:

      Certianly, but not likely through Allan’s gym.

    • HAMMER says:

      ya just rang another bell in my head – Allan said he was close to TT – Trainer/Fighter relationship – long hours on the road – hotel rooms – “us against them” mentality is a strong bond between athletes….
      who is John Allan? In a way, if Plotnikof was in that gym too – then Allan is another interesection point?
      Dont know why – all this just woke up in my head this morning – I cant write fast enough.

    • Missie Baker says:

      You are one scary dude! LOL! Keep the insights rolling–you always are amazing pulling together the big picture stuff.

    • Baby Blake says:

      John Allan lives in Thailand most of the time I think. Have you ever been to an ultimate fighting gym? I have and they are hot beds for all sorts. What’s said in the gym stays in the gym so to speak. Allan has purposely distanced himself from the tsarnaev’s – who wouldn’t if you are trying to run a successful business – but it’s way deeper than that. He seems personally pissed at them for something. I don’t see that being related to just the possible tarnishing of the name ‘wai kru’. If anything, the notoriety should of worked in his favour.

    • HAMMER says:

      So, Ruslan and Allan mad at Tamerlan? Both mentors at one time or another. Mr. T rubs a lot of people the wrong way – not a good characteristic for a spook?
      DT on the other hand – everyone loves the socialable guy with dry humor, moppy hair and cooler than ice demeanor – perfect spook stuff.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I have no idea. I cant hypothesize the way you do. I wish I could. When it comes to ‘spooks’ I’m lost. On a different note – well done and congrats on the excellent response to your post! just read through the comments and you really got the conversation going there didn’t you?!? Just what was needed – people to question more. Thanks Coach.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      BabyB, I sense a chance for action. Check you email.

    • Missie Baker says:

      you both are freaking me–are you suggesting a spooky network through these martial arts gyms, and all that falls from it with the players we know? Todashev–Allan portrayed him as don’t look at the guy cross-eyed or he’d lose it–no control at all. just the sort you don’t want to anger in a parking lot–where he was the one who got beat-up (course he was recovering from knee surgery) r u suggesting he was the muscle–money he had, or did that money come from papa?
      The reason I don’t think TT and DT were in any network yet was because they were pretty poverty-stricken–they may have been resisting joining up, knew too much, and therefore were a liability, but they appeared to be scrabbling for dollars. Maybe that’s why TT went to Russia–recruitment–got scared when Plotnikov was killed and tried to wash his hands of his Agency friends. IDK–all wild speculation, we’ve covered some of this already.

      EDIT: and in the end, this reads like a mafia novel–but is the FBI anything else but an enforcement team–wearing the white hats, not the black ones.

      More on the Russian trip by TT and Plotnikov, I hadn’t seen this one when it was published back in May. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/world/europe/boston-bombing-inquiry-looks-closely-at-russia-trip.html?_r=0

    • Missie Baker says:

      And several thousand posts earlier, I commented on the Chechen’s–our few Islamic friends–families with children of appropriate ages being recruited post-9/11 when Govt was pushing our agencies to find more friends, build our networks, get more early warning systems in place on terror attacks–I believe the 200+ Chechen families in the US were brought here for the specific purpose of recruiting their sons (& daughters) to go out into the terror networks and spy for us. Bringing them to the US for the purpose of exposing the teens to American culture so the young adults could be harvested and would be so ‘americanized’ they wouldn’t question why they needed to support the US objectives against their former homelands. Farfetched? Maybe not.

    • HAMMER says:

      you are now getting out in the hinterlands…whew!

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      No idea if it’s true, but no, not farfetched, especially if a family already has relatives who have already established themselves in the US…..

    • otterdaughter says:

      nope

    • Renny says:

      Not farfetched at all. They speak the language, they know the culture, for the purpose of recruitment or spying they’re perfect.

    • HAMMER says:

      I’m not ready to go all in on a “spooky network.” But remember the first reports – were LE was on the hunt for a CELL of 12…..

    • otterdaughter says:

      i’m so glad you brought it up! i’ve been holding back bc i know you guys think i’m a little kookaberra…
      why is nobody looking at allan?? how many boys from his gym are dead? he’s been changing his story…alot. he’s been a regular deliverer of the official narrative.

      what got me wondering was an article i read (i will source this if you want) the subject of interview was a boxing club owner who also did something for the olympics. as such, he was always kinda scouting for talent. he was interested in tt, he claims, but the person who really poo poo’d it was allan. told him to forget him; he would not get his citi-ship.

      if you owned a gym, and your best boxer (i’ve seen him box. he was by far the best boxer in the tournament. he would have made the olympic team, imo) is representing your gym in a run for the olympics, wouldn’t you promote, promote, promote him? this guy was supposed to be his coach & mentor. but i’ve doubted for some time that;s been his only role.

    • HAMMER says:

      Hey we are all a little cookoo for being this deep in the doodoo of this case. Source away all you want. I am seriously believing things are taking a big, wide, slow turn right now and we are going to see things fall together a little quicker. Its impossible for the architects of this operation to hold it all together.

    • Guest says:

      That rings a bell.

    • Baby Blake says:

      POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now!! A coincidence? Are you kidding me? All 4 friends who knew? I’m loving this and for one very specific reason-this is what they’re scared of C. They don’t want people to make these connections. Who is writing this up? I volunteer! Although it may take a few days to gather all the correct sources etc.

    • HAMMER says:

      here is the clincher: They were looking for Todashev within days of Tamerlans death – I think they got to Florida within a week. They were not investigating the BMB or the Waltham murders – they wanted to know what he knew?

    • Missie Baker says:

      Hmm, didn’t Allan hint he gave lists of friends and fighters who knew Tamerlan–he wasn’t very subtle about it. The Todashev lead came from him, I expect.

    • HAMMER says:

      He was out of the country on a fight with another fighter – Thailand I think – when the BMB went down – He said he didnt get back until well after the 19th – by that time the FBI was already on to Todashev. They tracked him to another house – and the women who lived there had said they wanted to know where is mail was from.

      EDIT: but to answer your question – yes he provided the sign in logs – waivers.

    • Guest says:

      There were also reports that they had spoken after Todashev’s knee surgery (and maybe after the bombings?) so they may have gotten to Todashev from phone records.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      I believe the first reports (or interviews with Todashev’s roommate) said that the FBI got to Todashev because he and TT skyped about a month before the bombings.

    • Guest says:

      If I remember correctly…..
      Plotnikoff was either ‘persuaded’ to give LE the identities of his friends/contacts/associates/fellow-martial arts nuts in Russia. Either that or the info was got from his correspondence.

    • HAMMER says:

      go ahead and write it up – I am involved in a few other things today and this weekend – I will only be checking in sparingly….
      btw – the response to the HOLES articles has been great – lots of questions lots of comments – on the blog.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Will check them out! Any new points that you may of missed? I said it was very conclusive – you had everything in there apart from the kitchen sink! Well done!

      EDIT – save taking up another post. I will write this article. I cant wait to get stuck back into something. I’ve sooooo missed it. Project for the weekend. Will keep checking back in though – I’m all excited but I don’t know why. Must be going mad.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Yes, this is going to be a difficult post to sort out–you have a steady hand Difficulty is in knowing where to start–there’s so much background to cover. It may end up being two posts?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes, will do so now M.

    • otterdaughter says:

      william plotnikov.

      it struck me as odd that the fbi, who hitherto has been mute, silent, & unresponsive to questions, concerns, etc. (they didn’t even bother to show up to a congressional hearing/govt query!) is suddenly explaining themselves – in a very official press release.
      this seems like a 180 to me & i can’t help but wonder why.
      thoughts?

    • HAMMER says:

      Well – the Grassley interogation both in public and by letter to the FBI – are frankly the first hints of inside knowledge leaking out of the cover up package. Who else would have known about the supposed “MIT” surveillance that night? And – this strong of a response would not have been produced had Grassley and his staff not had details, documentation and backup. In other words a standard flat denial wasnt going to get by Grassley.
      The prime directive from day one has been to “protect” the narrative. The Grassley information is not a direct attack on the narrative, but enough of one that it can get the nose of the camel under the tent. And I would not be surprised if it already has or at least has awakened some in the Fourth Estate to get their butts in gear.
      Lastly – this is only a hint of insider knowledge – where there is a hint – there may be more. Lets cross our fingers.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Let’s do more than that……

    • Baby Blake says:

      Agent Ghenk said he personally viewed him…..who told Ghenk? Action Saunders – I know exactly where you’re headed with this.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      EH ? Get over to your email, read the short one – the other can keep. Urgent (possibly)

    • Baby Blake says:

      Will do now!

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Coach – I just read the piece here on the Grassley letter. he’s asking about the origin of the ‘images’, and who determined from them that the brothers were the suspects. I sense a chance….what do you think ? If the FEDs won’t tell him…..

    • HAMMER says:

      exactly what I said below – the Grassley inquiry has all the earmarks of insider information – yes, I think someone is leaking.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Sorry there coach, I haven’t read your full post yet – too much going on at this end. But I will do. In the meantime, get onto BabyB offline.

    • HAMMER says:

      gotcha now – can you post the Grassley interview or letter.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Didn’t Collier train at Wai Kru as well?

    • HAMMER says:

      yes he did – I know the web is thick thick thick.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Many moons ago, yes…….did community voluntary work there, so is said.

  34. Missie Baker says:

    In re: Saunders comment re: M. Schulter on Firedoglake, I just read her post on Federal Death Penalty cases across three administrations. Here’s the link: http://my.firedoglake.com/mschulter/2011/04/18/catfood-and-circuses-a-federal-death-penalty-extravaganza/
    She writes there on the senseless futility of the Fed’s seeking a death penalty conviction for a convicted murderer serving a life sentence. (It was a Holder recommendation.) And in said instance, it does appear to be a gesture, upholding the (federal criminal) law of the land. But yet, if this criminal is not prosecuted, then what sort of precedent does it set, and what are the long-term implications for other attorneys wishing to argue on the merits of venue-shopping for a client, a subject also debated at the beginning of the Tsarnaev case? Individual circumstances cannot be disruptive to the justice system, which is built and maintained on predictive outcomes–making new law is not the norm, which is why I expect Holder to green light the DP for DT. I’ve also commented elsewhere on WWW about a life sentence in a Supermax facility may be worse than the alternative. Where there is life, there is hope, but ADX isn’t any form of life if 23×7 isolation is the routine for decades. I’ve also read (somewhere) the percentage of mentally challenged individuals in the most restrictive prison environments for the worst sorts of crimes is higher than the occurrence in the general population–another strike against this sort of punishment.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Like a ‘living’ death. Yet the instinct to survive is so strong – many will go for it. I suspect if Holder removes threat of DP then a trial is almost inevitable. Therefore he will go with DP. they don’t want ANY of this out in the open. DP garuantees a plea. and with that comes silence. Perfect.

    • HAMMER says:

      I read last night in FDL – I think it was Shulter in the comments section of one article was saying that the UK has a law against the piling on of loads charges, real, indirect, or altogether vague – for the purposes of giving a defendant a real choice to plea or go to trial. In her example – charging DT with Donohue’s near death injury was a reach, but with some precedent….The idea is – DT is stairing at 17 DP worthy charges out of the 30 he faces. Only one has to stick to throw him down the river. What incentive is there to go to trial facing those odds?

    • Baby Blake says:

      No plea deals in the UK Coach. They don’t happen. It’s either trial or plead guilty. No bargaining allowed.

    • Missie Baker says:

      BB, did not know this, thanks for the clarification! I’ve been doing a little exploring of the Firedoglake site, and it seems to be populated by some appealing characters. Since the WhoWhatWhere moderators won’t take any action for us against the obvious moronic, disruptive trolls who infest our threads, I’m thinking about moving over there if I can block the dips**ts from making ceaselessly dumba** comments that readers looking for information give up on scrolling though–it’s mentally exhausting to keep reading the same bullcr** every other flipping comment.
      I’m really on the verge of moving away completely from WhoWhatWhy as even the most basic form of moderation appears to be nonexistent here.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I put discuss over on our site that I built! We could move there? Basic moderation would of course apply.

    • Missie Baker says:

      I want to get away from disqus if I go to Firedoglake–its commenting apparatus appears from this site to give free rein to the psychotics, morons, dogmatic one-noters to endlessly voice disruptive sh** slyly designed to derail us. (As opposed to Intelligent queries such as Mrs. Peel’s below, which are more than welcome in my opinion.)

    • Baby Blake says:

      True – but the point is you can moderate yourself over there. If anyone comes in with an obvious agenda you have the power to say ‘non’. Genuine commenters and intelligent discussion are always extremely valuable, such as Em as you rightly point out. Or/and we can stick a message board in – Em has actually suggested this herself as a way of offering structured discussion away from the comments section.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You are trying to be her teacher. Take over and tell her you are taking over or exiting. Download all your stuff and do your own blog. Do not use missy’s design. It is anti productive for what you want and what you want to be to others. I have followed FDL for almost 20 years now. And it has grown, slowly and surely. All the really smart and committed people in this political Event are over there and many are at Politico. That’s where you can exchange with your peers. Grow instead of explaining over and over.

      Actually youtube is the most exciting political force going on this but their comment section is scattered and limited among many different posters.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      That’s why disqus has blacklist. Just think you can blacklist me. Won’t THAT make you happy. However I do know how to get around that by pasting. But that’s because I have my OWN blogs. I took care to post all my forum posts on my own sites as I was expecting this. Just your question reflects how much a newbie you are trying to run an important site which is important because of BB and Saunders. My shopper and gamer bf thinks coach is a rank amateur with his shopping.

    • HAMMER says:

      dont let the door hit you on the way out
      no one will miss you – please stop threatening and just go – do yourself a favor

    • abbeysbooks says:

      See this is the way you handle trolls and this is why you can’t win with them. A pity. I should ask friends to come here but they would get mad at me instead for wasting their time with the likes of you.

    • HAMMER says:

      can you post to the all things forum blog too? please – pretty please –

    • Baby Blake says:

      Post what C? In the comments section? I can only access it every now and again. Sometimes I’m allowed in and sometimes the computer says ‘no’!

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It’s a fuggin mess. That’s an admin problem. If missy can’t do it find someone who can.

    • HAMMER says:

      this is a democracy dumbo – you are the only one we want to get rid of

      EDIT – we can all go in there and post and do whatever – just not you. Cluelesssssss

    • abbeysbooks says:

      So do what I tell you to do and you can blacklist me. What could be better. I get what I want and so do you. I want to see DT live and you want to get rid of me. Win/win DOPE.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Just put it on disqus. That way people have to be registered with disqus. That gives each one a history on disqus. So if you have a question about that person check their history. If it is scimpy, then they are probably a troll. go to the admin panel settings and on the right is whitelist/blacklist. So you can easily whitelist regular commenters and blacklist trouble makers, and you have the option of doing it retroactively if you want so you can take out everything they ever said on your blog. They know this and trolls don’t like it on their history. These things are there to help you with this problem but you all go on and complain and complain and refuse to listen when I tell you what to do because coach hates me, and missy is threatened by me. Sorry. I am not going to change my style. This is why I have my own blogs because I have been to boot camp on this crap. The only reason I persist her is that DT’s LIFE is at stake and you have a chance to help while you fret like middle school children over trolls!

    • HAMMER says:

      no – we are tired of sour puss

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Just think you can blacklist me. Isn’t that enough to do what I am telling you to do.

    • HAMMER says:

      did you see they deleted my earlier comment? Maybe somebody is listening?
      Maybe now is the time to send a help letter to Uncle Russ?

    • Missie Baker says:

      Next on my list.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Do ask Big Daddy to interfere. Do you really think Russ wants all of you here. You need a blog list on forum with a link to www.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Which comment ?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Maybe you will enable comments and disqus on your own blog site. That would be earth shattering.

    • HAMMER says:

      not for your goofy arce

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Just this alone shows you that you are surrounded by people you have to keep educating. It splits you.

    • HAMMER says:

      can you believe the sh*& this daft bat is spewing?

    • patfromuk says:

      Plea deals has made many innocent persons plead guilty rather than face charges with a severe outcome.
      Indictments are usually very harsh in order to push alledged criminals away from trial and trials support this system by giving alledged criminal harsher sentences if they dare a not guilty plea. Whatsmore, trials are much more expensive than plea bargains, so it is an all win situation.
      It is no joke to claim that there is many innocent people in jail, it is a reality… So many lives down the drain. That is not called justice, just a parody. But no one cares, except the numerous unlucky ones who have experience “justice” this way.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Good point, BB. Your comment reminded me of Martin Weinberg’s statement about Ortiz fighting the discovery process–it was a surprise to him if she had really good evidence, why hide it. It all ties together, doesn’t it, if they have no really good evidence, best to keep discovery on chokehold and wait for the plea deal after Holder recommends DP. (hope I am wrong.)

    • Baby Blake says:

      Makes perfect sense to me. They don’t want that info out and objected to the defense request to lengthen the period of time it had to prepare DP submissions citing ‘Holder was duty bound to make his decision by 10/31/2013’.
      All they have to do is hold out until then – another week and that info will be buried for all eternity. Wont stop us trying to unearth it though will it?

    • Missie Baker says:

      Never. We keep going. We must.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      The prosecution/defense courtroom production is a SPECTACLE to keep people believing it is real when it is not. It is just a game to deceive us with its ideology. There is no justice there.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      So this needs to be the focus of what you are doing instead of minutiae details. C’mon BB you can do it. You just have to make the jump out of the Discourse the people surrounding you have you imprisoned in. They cannot. I see that. But you can. This is Russ Baker’s failing. He is stuck in it because he believes it. This is why you have given him 7000+ hits that he couldn’t get on his own. Follow emptywheel and Jane Hamsher for the transition.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      On the other hand, Dzh.T may consider that, either way with a plea-bargain, he’s knackered. DP seems to take a long time (years ) and many legal procedures, appeals, et c before it’s finally decided. I don’t know much about law, but I imagine that (and I think I read as much) that having taken a plea-bargain, your right of any appeal is gone, even in the face of new evidence or the exposure of abuse of process. Even if he loses an initial ‘not guilty’ plea, there’s still a chance of getting out of jail alive rather than dead.
      There’s something called an ‘Alford’ plea, but I don’t know much about it…something to do with the West Texas Three, ironically enough.

      Those wrongly convicted of the Guildford and Brimingham pub bombings here rejected parole more than once, because it would have meant admitting guilt, and they weren’t guilty. They held out for nearly 20 years before being exonerated.

    • Renny says:

      I just cannot imagine a 20-year old having that much inner strength to hold out for 20 years…

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Well… the first person to be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act over here was Paul Hill. I think he was 18 or 19 at the time: definitely still in his teens. He was wrongly convicted of Guildford. He held out vociferously and unrelentingly – rooftop protests included. Sheets marked in massive lettering ‘innocent’ et cetera. This always got onto the main television news, you could see the message. They all held out, and were young when arrested. Carole Richardson was 17, I think.

    • Renny says:

      Wow, I guess some people are stronger than others. I definitely cannot imagine myself in such situation in such a young age.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I think it’s probably way beyond imagination. That’s part of the isolation of it.

    • otterdaughter says:

      did u know jt studied the west memphis 3 in school? he wrote a little opinion on the case which has proven to be eerily prophetic. familiar?

      i think the alford plea might be for post-conviction but i’ll check.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Yes, I did – hence the irony, almost a prophecy. Basically that the town needed scapegoats, rushed to judgement, but hopefully it wouldn’t happen again: but if it did, he hoped that people would not stand silent….

      Thanks for checking on Alford.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Discipline and Punish – Foucault. The genealogy of crime and punishment is in his book. Genealogy is not chronology and different genealogies can co-exist at any given time. What we are seeing now is the genealogy of crime and punishment as it existed under sovereign rule. Foremost the crime did not consider the victim. The crime was a crime against the sovereign. If you stole someone’s wallet, it was not a crime against the person, it was a crime against the sovereign and so the punishment had to commensurate with the fact that it was against the SOVEREIGN! This is how the Boston bombing is being perceived by the government. IT IS A CRIME AGAINST THE SOVEREIGN STATE! It was not a crime against the victims. It was a crime against the powers that are in power. The public perception confuses crimes that involve masses of people, BECAUSE they have not yet learned to think genealogically. As more people do, the Discourse changes until it is turned inside out. IF you listen to Russell Brand on Susie Madrack: http://susiemadrak.com/2013/10/24/interview-with-russell-brand/ Brand is a master at not falling into the Dominating Discourse trap. He knows it and understands it, identifies it and sails over it.

  35. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    At least if I remember to post them…

    • Renny says:

      That is exactly the reason why I wanted your email :)
      This is what I wanted to talk about before posting it here…

    • Renny says:

      There are your railings…

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I knew we were on the same wavelength. There’s plenty more where that came from, eh ?

      Now to sort out that email once & for all…

    • Renny says:

      There is, for sure.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Quick get this and I’ll take it straight down.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Right, we’re in business. I think we’ll be a good duo on the images. They’re going DOWN. Send me some thoughts……..

    • Baby Blake says:

      Right you pair! I have a suggestion. Renny go to this site and fill in a contact form. It will come to my email address and then I can pass you over to Saunders privately. Then you can both get cracking – this could be a good one…..
      thebostonmarathonbombings.weebly.com

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      We’re sorted, BabyB, but there’s no harm in having a backup. Did you meet the contour twins yet ?

    • Baby Blake says:

      I did! And I replied to your email with a suggestion!

    • Renny says:

      Check your email, please.

    • Renny says:

      Thanks Baby B. We’re sorted.

    • Renny says:

      Ok, Baby B, I filled in the contact form. Just in case.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes Renny! I received it and replied to you. If anything messes up in future I have it now. Thank you.

    • Renny says:

      Thank you, I’ve received your reply. That should get us going :)

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you post keep your own downloaded. And keep your own copyright. You have no way of knowing if your stuff has been copyrighted by the admin. And you will want to post it on other sites to promote what you are saying.

    • Missie Baker says:

      S: where are you planning to post? Did you respond to either my or BB’s latest round of email invites for you to be able to post on the blog?
      BTW,–whoa! Your triptych is shocking!!!! You must emerge from the tunnels more often. :)

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks M. I can’t find the invites anywhere.

      The triptych is nothing: me and Renny are teaming up. The beauty of the geometry approach is that anyone can do it at home and get the same results: no arguments about photoshop. There’s more than one way to crack this crock.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      No. At least I don’t think so…I can’t remember if that’s an email for something else, like blogger. I’ll do it via BabyB so as to keep my email off the thread.

      Mind, that might be the matter solved !

    • Renny says:

      It’s not what I’ve got.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      It’s all sorted Renny.

    • Renny says:

      Baby B has got my email now. Did she send it to you?

    • Baby Blake says:

      All done Renny! thank you very much.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Sorted. Just been reading your message.

    • Missie Baker says:

      That would be good. Because she sent via the Forum the invite to the email address you gave her. Check spam? Wouldn’t be from her direct email, that may be why you didn’t recognize it.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      See you just created another log jam. What is your IQ anyway?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Nope. Just eliminates multitudes of potential commenters and allies.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      But within the courtroom Discourse, geometry won’t fly with a jury nor most judges. Not unless you can make it very image friendly.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you do disqus you don’t need invites. IN fact you can’t do disqus with invites as you have to check the setting of “anyone.” Then you can kill with blacklisting. Wouldn’t getting rid of me be enough incentive for you to learn something? Anything? There is always hope.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Don’t know about the shape, but DT’s missing lower leg/foot is weird.

    • Missie Baker says:

      LOL–never even noticed he was minus a foot! :0

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      …and whilst Mr.T probably doesn’t sting like a bee, he certainly floats like a butterfly in the uncropped version of ‘white hat crowd’. He’s in mid-air.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Try it at home…..you just do a single line and copy it across. It fits. The closer in you go, the better the fit. You can cut the section out and transfer it across.

      And again those railings in the central image. They’re not the Forum railings. The woman in the very distinctive scalloped vest is a real figure, who was there at the Forum for a good while, and got caught up in the blast. She had a distinctive pink and white scarf with a skull motif.

      Given that she was at the Forum a good long while, how does that figure get from the front railings to the railings near the camera in such a short time ? Even if it took her only 5 seconds, Mr.T would not appear on both shots. He could appear on one, but not both: he’d be still en route, or long gone. Look also at the other figures: The two images are intended to show a particular place at a particular time.

    • HAMMER says:

      thats another “gotcha” post

    • Baby Blake says:

      Isn’t it just!???! Well done S! Shall we write this up?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      We will, but I can’t tonight. Big respect to Renny on this one as well. We’ve been in contact about these images, and there’s more to report. I’ll try to do it tomorrow.

      Speaking as our resident flashbang expert, if the backpack in the Blue Runner photo was the bomb, and the backpack remained where it was (allowing for the restricted movements people made in the moments of uncertainty)….what are the chances of that side of the tree escaping without a scratch ? Pre- and post-blast photos show that. Google streetmap from about 2 years ago, blast aftermath and ‘crimescene’ shots all show it. Not a scratch, not a scorch, not a dent. That’s one other thing I’ve been working on and will try to post tomorrow.

      What’s your opinion on the tree ?

    • Baby Blake says:

      It could be a fluke of circumstance. We’d have to see the side of the tree that we cant!

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Fair enough BabyB – I did post a fuller response to Mrs.Peel below. What are the chances of such a fluke ?.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Quite high I’d say. The tree itself is very narrow – low surface area. It’s also very close-shrapnel did not have time to spread out over it’s ‘wider area’. Most of the small shrapnel flew into the street and hardly any was flung into the crowd near the tree. If it sustained any damage from ‘that bag’ it would of been in the form of a large chunk very near the base.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      ..and there isn’t one. No dent, no loose bark, nothing.

      I defer to your superior knowledge of explosives. What’s your opinion about the possibility of heat damage at the base of the tree ?

    • Baby Blake says:

      I’d expect to see something but not anything major. The heat would of just gone either side because the tree is so narrow.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      BB’s knowledge of explosives is for her and us. Since she is not one of those certified, corporate,govt employed authorities on explosives what she says about them mean very little. Go to Dave’s site to see his analysis and ask BB to critique it for you.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      This is the kind of thing that led dave to suspect a simulation. The pattern of the debris, the lack of blood, the inconsistency of the official narrative and the images. But to take him seriously you have to come to believe your govt is capable of such treachery. That’s a hard jump unless you are already there.

    • patfromuk says:

      I don”t have the answer, but I think it is more difficult for a governement to stage a whole bomb site rather than sacrifice a handfull of persons. I don’t know what governements are capable of ,but is seems to me they usually don’t shy away from killing people if they think it is for there own greater good.You can ask irakis, afghans and syrians about this, they possibly will agree.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Many of us have come to the conclusion that it was a combination of both and that the people didn’t really know unless they were the actors. If I had been there in the middle of it I would have probably thought it was all real.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Hello Pat.
      You and ab both have a good point here. I often encounter people from the countries you mention, and there’s and intresting mix of opinion. As for governments, do you recall the ludicrous situation here recently when the Afghan interpreters (who were regarded as good enough to risk their lives out there) were to be offered ‘resettlement packages’ in return for agreeing to stay over there, and not to bother the UK government ? They’d be ‘re-settled’ alright, fast-tracked to an early grave. It’s a particularly nasty brand of ruthlessness: masquerading as generosity, and reliant on the notion that everybody can be bought. The interpreters had signed up in good faith, but having served their purpose, could be discarded. Thank God they fought back.

      A drill needs to be a big exercise involving many different agencies. That circle was too wide and vulnerable to infiltration. The hijackers knew well in advance. With most people there on the day unaware of the drill plan, it was an ideal event to hijack. The government would not need to stage the entire incident, only have the drill under control. As soon as the drill is hijacked, there’s chaos for real, on a scale that the drill had never intended. The ‘players’ in the drill would initially not have known whether to continue as per plan, or get the blazes out of there.

    • patfromuk says:

      To Saunders and Abbey.
      I went through many hypothesis. I think the most plausible one is , like you , that the drill was hijacked.
      The question is by who and why. My gut feeling is that by now, the governement knows perfectly who hijacked the drill. To avoid one massive scandal (this gvnmnt seems to be collecting them already) they have decided to use the kid as their scapegoat, it is easier and cleaner. And they prefer to shoot at anyone that could put their narrative in danger rather than admit it.
      No , one life, even if its still a kid is not worth much more than that. What is sickening is that to play their part to the end, they are ready to torture him, humilate him , encourage hatred towards him and target his familly. I don’t think those brush ups with the law the family is getting is a coincidence.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Spot-on, Pat.
      Many possibilities about the hijack: elements within the CIA, rogue FBI, infiltrators of that private security firm that was there. The contracts for participating in security exercises are lucrative: one purpose of hijacking is to discredit other agencies. If TT was a busted ‘asset’, he was a liability. If he’d been approached and refused, he was a liability. Political infighting between various LE agencies, out of egos, spite, bids for power, and money….Then there’s the Caspian pipeline…big energy reserves, ie further motives and much wider involvement. Could have been that the Tsarnaevs were perfect scapegoats. I think it’s significant that they were/are Chechen. …the ‘double explosion’ signature.

      The ruthless determination to cover up and to obstruct the defence only makes it more obvious that there is something so wrong here that any price is worth paying: Gods other than justice are being served here, cravenly and wilfully. The Tsarnaevs are ‘collateral damage’. But as coach had always held, the whole thing’s been scuppered when Mama T exposed the lie. It’s been panic-stations ever since, but it gets more ruthless. If the Tsarnaevs ‘have’ to be destroyed, well that’s just a small price for ‘maintaining public confidence in LE’. We all know what that usually means, in any country.

      Another interesting point is that Dzh.T is off-script by pleading ‘not guilty’. It’s now not as quick and clean as they reckoned it would be. No swift boxing off to the ranks of the living dead with no questions asked…

    • patfromuk says:

      I agree Saunders. However, I keep on wondering about the hatred towards DT, (obvious in the correspondance between Ortiz and DT’s lawyers) and fuelled by the media . This is not “natural”, usually, once a man is down, that is it. I wonder if it is because their case is not as strong as they pretend?
      The other possibility would be that they have plans concerning Tchechenya / Daghestan and the brothers were used in that optic (gather public support for despicable actions)?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      The media’s been stoking it up right from the kickoff.CBS’s John Miller is a former high-ranking FBI man….the note in the boat….originally came via Miller, I think. It stokes all this BS ‘patriotism’ and frames the Tsarnaevs as failures in the ‘American Dream’. It fosters a notion that the US is the be-all-and end-all of human existence. So anybody dissenting is by definition a threat. Why is the phrase ‘unAmerican activities’ ringing a bell….?

      And, as always, some people need somebody to hate. It makes them feel better. And it makes money. There’s some sadistic *********** out there: some really vile characters in the twittersphere and elsewhere.

      I doubt there’s much of a case, if any case at all. That’s why there’s been such a determined effort to isolate Dzh.T, and to obstruct the defence. God forbid that the truth should come out….

      There has never been a kosher investigation. From the very start, there’s been an insistence that the only ‘acceptable’ scenario (acceptable to LE & govt, that is) and the only POSSIBLE scenario are one and the same.

      ‘We don’t know who they are, but we’re not looking for anybody else’…’don’t look at ANY other images…’ Obama asking ‘why’ the brothers did it: he’s saying that they did it, full stop. Genck – who could see no other possibility other than the visible backpack as teh cause of the explosion….we’ll we’d all agree with that, but on the grounds that there’s so much that CAN’T be seen, not on the grounds that all other possibilities have been exhausted. They’ve tried to close it down from the start, but Dzh.T didn’t die an didn’t plead guilty. So now it’s a REAL emergency,

    • Renny says:

      One part of the narrative has been that they’re immigrants who were welcomed to the US with open arms, given asylum, social security benefits…and in the end they “turned against the country that had given them shelter”. I believe there is some kind of immigration reform being pushed at the moment in the US, and this gives them an argument as to why there should be a change in rules…Please, correct me if I’m wrong.
      I’ve read some articles where they were discussing if the Tsarnaves should have been given asylum – if they felt safe to go back to their country few years later.
      They’re easy targets – immigrants, Muslim, family lived on social security benefits…

    • Guest says:

      Very good point. One of the first full-colour shrieking headlines showed Tamerlan’s picture and the headline ‘What a nerve !’.
      That agenda’s lurking alright.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      The area of the shrapnel and debris is on Dave’s site. The one on simulation. And you still haven’t answered me on that question.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You are getting very close to Dave’s analysis of simulation.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      …see also my response to Mrs.Peel regarding the lack of damage to the visible section of the tree. Pre- and post-blast, the tree doesn’t have a mark on it. Not a scorch, not a scratch, nothing. How does it escape if that backpack at that place contained a bomb powerful enough to kill via its blast wave and its shrapnel – and cause burns to people several metres away. How does the tree escape ?

      What we don’t see is the other side of the tree.

    • HAMMER says:

      remember they pulled those landscape grates out and dug around that tree for the better part of the next day – and then the next day it was cut down – roots and all…..

      EDIT: and in the Roberts video – there is smoke coming out of those grates before the old timer walks over and starts poking around.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Indeed coach, indeed, but there’s pictures from before they got round to that. So, if it’s suggested that that side of the tree took a hammering because the bomb was in the backpack between the tree and the mailbox, we know what to make of such a claim, I think.

    • HAMMER says:

      and one more thing – Mr Richard in his only interview claims the tree saved little Jane by taking the brunt of the blast.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Tree is hit from behind, absorbs some of the energy, deflects the rest ? We don’t know exactly where everybody was in the moments after the first explosion. Such an element of chance as to who lives and who dies. Lu was seen being treated on the sidewalk behind the tree. First rule of first response: treat them where they fall…..

    • Missie Baker says:

      S, something is odd with the line-up. There’s a victim who doesn’t move when everyone around her is moving and others have been carried away. I believe it is the deceased Ms. Lu and she was partially beneath the mailbox. Which means either Ms. Zhou is seen sitting upright against the Forum patio railings post-explosion, or that is Ms. Lu who is wounded in ways not visible to Ms. Dayan’s camera from across the street.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks Missie, I’m onto it. Which is the Dayan photo ?

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      What!? I missed that! That is pink skull scarf lady in both pics?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I think that’s who it’s supposed to be. A very distinctive figure, wouldn’t you say ? And known to have been at a certain restaurant patio at a certain time.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Creepy…

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes Em – same woman.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      See how you get distracted with diversionary tactics. That’s not to criticize Saunders, because it’s part of the Dominating Discourse to distract your attention.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It’s good to have them but they can be interpreted, re-interpreted, then re-interpreted over and over and over. A long ping-pong game. If I had Robert Pattinson/Kristen Stewart fans over here they would re-educate all of you on this stuff, but they are not political. Alas.

  36. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Meet the contour twins.

  37. Gaston Lagaffe says:

    I’ve been looking at some DT backpack pics:

    I’ve used the set of small pics below (there’s one with, and one without my ‘art work’), which I found on the Internet, and Renny’s larger stills, which are down thread.

    On top of the backpack there’s a shadowy shape (orange circles). It’s clearly visible in the small pics, but also in Renny’s, though less defined. At first I thought it was a tag or bag handle or something, but it’s oddly positioned. Something seems to be pushing through the material from the inside. Could it be the end of the handle of a small pressure cooker standing up on its side (see red drawing)?
    DT’s backpack is deeper than it looks. It consists of two, or even three, compartments. The centre bottom pic shows it in part from its side – it looks like a mirrored L shape. In the corresponding ‘arty’ pic, I’ve drawn the contours of the front and side in blue – the blue triangle is the back side of the bag. If the handle of the cooker would point upwards, the lower part and bottom of the pot would point backward, which would explain the odd L shape of the bag.
    Also, the front compartment of the backpack is left open; that open compartment in the top left small pic corresponds with the darker, shadowy part of the light backpack in the Blue Runner pic.

    These observations are quite disturbing – if anyone sees it differently, please, I’d love to hear. On the other hand, I’ve often accused the US government of tunnel vision, esp. where DT’s “jihadist” motives are concerned, so I shouldn’t apply reverse tunnel vision myself, where everything is explained from a point of view of his innocence.

    Of course, there are also the observations that DT’s bag doesn’t seem that heavy, and that he seems quite careless in his movements… I mean, a pressure cooker doesn’t necessarily need to contain explosives, right?… But right now I have the feeling I’m clutching at straws.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Hello Mrs.Peel.
      The stills may be a bit misleading, especially if they’re taken from the Whiskey’s footage after it had been in the possession of the FBI. The clunky effect in the video is not slow motion, it’s because frames have been taken out. We’re down to 1 frame a second, from many many more. There was a fuller version that got taken down almost immediately: shows Tamerlan glancing at the figure in the alcove, the one who’s making all the hand gestures. This is now all gone. The company that deals with Whiskey’s CCTV prides itself on really good set-ups and really good kit. Unless there’s enough frames (still or video) to show the movement, it’s difficult to conclude anything.

      As to the Blue Runner picture: if that backpack remained where it was, it’s almost certainly innocent.

      Tentatively,

      Orange circles – I think it’s a crease, the bag material is being inwards rather than outwards. I think this because of the way the bag hangs. Follow the right strap down, it looks more like a natural fold. It’s also possible that it’s a large zipper pull.

      Blue arrow: To me, the open pocket is much further down than the patch on the black bag.

      Have you seen the stills from the other angle, where he’s coming round the corner ? It’s empty-looking and creased.

      I’m about to post at the top of the thread regarding some other images. Love to hear your opinion.

      EDIT.
      Just posted…..at the top, but it’s sunk beneath stuff that was posted hours ago. There’s a visual.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      “As to the Blue Runner picture: if that backpack remained where it was, it’s almost certainly innocent.”

      What?? LOL. Yes, and if that backpack didn’t explode, it’s probably still where it was.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks Mrs.Peel, but with respect, I still beg to differ, on the following grounds.

      That side of the tree is completely unscathed. Pre- and post-blast photos show that, and show it from the base to a considerable way up.

      The heat of the blast was enough to cause burns and singed hair on people several metres away. Why is there no scorching on the tree ?

      Blast waves are what strip limbs of all soft tissue, and then there’s shrapnel.

      With the tree being immobile, it would have had to absorb a considerable force before ‘equal and opposite reaction’ occurs. Yet there’s not a single scorch mark, burn, or a scratch of shrapnel damage on that side of the tree. Not even any loose bark. At the very least the melted part of the backpack would have left its mark.

      What we don’t see is the other side of that tree.

    • Renny says:

      Morning, Saunders. Which side of the tree do you want to see? The side from the Forum?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      That’s what we really need…..Let’s take this offline for the moment. See you soon. :)

    • Renny says:

      Hi, Mrs. Peel. I can see where you’re going with this. The backpack is folded in a way, as if there was a pan/saucepan/cooker with a handle upwards, as you’ve so nicely drawn on the pic. We cannot categorically state that there was no pressure cooker in his backpack. But his careless attitude would suggest that the cooker was either empty or didn’t really contain anything explosive.
      I don’t think that the darker backpack on the ground is the same backpack though.
      As we’ve suggested down the thread, he might have been part of a drill and as such he could have had a cooker in the backpack.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Of course, he may have been part of a drill, yes. The fact is, I see a bump on top of that bag and I can no longer ‘unsee’ it – it bothers me.

    • Baby Blake says:

      The pressure cookers – if I was shoving that device in my pack the handle would be coming off. Period. I’d saw it off if I had too. The other thing to consider is that 50% of pressure cookers do not have side handles anyway – and if I recall correctly the device they were said to of constructed theirs from had no side handles. Now you’ve ‘seen’ it, consider all the other variables to make a decision over what you think it could be.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      I’ve thought of a tennis racket, a baseball bat… but they don’t account for the odd L shape of that bag.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Hmmm. Neither does a pressure cooker. Wonder what he had in there?! So frustrating.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Well, actually, I think a pressure cooker DOES account for the L shape. This thought won’t leave my mind soon I’m afraid.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Well, then that’s where it shall remain unless you see something else that convinces you otherwise. This is fine – it’s all part of the journey and of course none of ever has to agree. We each interpret evidence differently which is the beauty of reasoned discussion like this.

    • HAMMER says:

      about 4 pictures above – before the start of the article – WWW has one of DT with backpack (right corner of 4) in that picture the pack appears to be sliding off his shoulder and see how the pull of the fabric flatens out the top of the bag. Something is in there – it has some weight – I dont think 30 lbs as suggested these bombs weigh – but something is in their causing the bag to shift positions and shapes,

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      He was zigzagging through the crowd of course, so the bag swung with his body I suppose. And no, it can’t have been 30 lbs.

      Didn’t they say that the 2nd bomb was actually smaller? I’m sure I’ve read that somewhere…
      I now see a small, squarish bump on top of TT’s backpack as well.

    • HAMMER says:

      thats why I was asking Renny for the pik – if anything in those backpacks weighed over 20 lbs it should have all gravitated to the lowest nook of the pack and give us a bare outline of the pot regardless of handle or not.
      I dont see a “sack of potatoes” look in any of the pictures – no outlines – nothing – except your wierd handles?
      hmmm?

    • HAMMER says:

      the reports are they were the same size pressure cookers – 6 quarts – whatever that is?

    • HAMMER says:

      remember it is the same one DM had in his bag.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I do! Same damn pressure cooker. What are the odds?

    • HAMMER says:

      I would not be the least bit surprised if they were told to pack two pressure cookers with some fireworks powder to give the bomb sniffing dogs something to go for. There were 4 others found that day in trash cans along the route – one was detonated, the other three were determined to be duds.
      And down thread – last night Guest posted another site were something happened and I got distracted with something else –
      anyway – I think we have all never seriously thought they were naive in this – I have advocated for some time now they just didnt expect their number to get called.

    • HAMMER says:

      Yes BB/Mrs Peel – the picture at the top of this site shows the lid of the pressure cooker they used – it is the screwed down variety with no handles….we went roundie roundie on this and I think the conclusion we reached is that it was the screwed down and lying on its side within the tree grade. That accounts for the dual thrust of the explosion – towards the Forum and towards the street – dual smoke clouds, dual fire pattern etc., etc., I think it is the weight of whatever it is pulling the fabric downwards giving the appearance of something poking through. I have blown this up a bit – I will leave it here.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Thanks Coach. And to be absolutely clear: I mean this ‘bump’ (yellow):

    • Renny says:

      Mrs. Peel, I’ve tried it with my own backpack. I put a normal cooker without a handle inside a backpack and it did the same thing to the top. The reason being – it’s only hanging on one strap. That means the strap is pulling up that one side – and because the backpack is not full and whatever is inside is at the bottom – there is this empty space inside that shows as folding down only on that side where the strap is not pulling it up. If he had it on both shoulders, the folding wouldn’t be there.

    • HAMMER says:

      Hey Renny – I am curious – if you lay that pot on its side and pull both straps over each shoulder as Tamerlan is wearing his – is there some kind of a crease running alongside the edge of the top of the pot?
      In another words – shouldnt we be able to see that pot outlined against the bag as it is lying there on its side (it is supposed to have wieghed between 20 -30 lbs)? Kind of a sack of potatoes effect – ya know what I mean?
      Can you take a picture of that and show us?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Oh yes please Renny! A pic would be great. I sense we have all been filling our old rucksacks with massive saucepans from the kitchen cupboard for months now – I know I have! Yet I don’t have the facility to take pics and post. I concluded something similar to yourself.

      EDIT: Daughter is here with phone! Shall I give it a bash too?

    • Renny says:

      don’t laugh, please
      The cooker is empty btw.

    • HAMMER says:

      that is something of the optical effect – not sure though – would need weight in the bag.

    • Renny says:

      filling it up just now…

    • Renny says:

      is this the crease you meant, Coach? There’s no more than 6kg in the bag, which is about 13lbs.

    • HAMMER says:

      sort of – I actually do have a 6 quart pot and 20 llbs of weights in it – and I put it on my grand daughter – it sags and creases horizontally across the back – as I thought.
      I have taken pictures and when I figure out photo stream again – I will post them.
      I will remind everyone 20llbs is no easy task – carrying on your back swaying in the crowd.
      When I told her to wear only one strap it definitely pulls hard to one side and it stretches the fabric oddly – but because it is so heavy there is no give to the fabric – zero. The weight of the pot shifts to one corner of the bag and it looks like a handle, But again there is no give in the fabric as we see in DT’s piks.
      So – my conclusion is there maybe a pot in there, but in no way – does either bag weigh 20 lbs – maybe less than 5-6 (like Renny’s above) but not an ounce more.

    • HAMMER says:

      Here ya go – these are double shoulder strap

    • HAMMER says:

      If either of them was carry a 20-30 pound we would see that pot wrap those back packs right around themselves like in these pictures above. And like you said – I had my grand daughter walk about 40 feet down the street and granted she is not as big or strong as either brother – that pot swayed with every step as the pot kept falling to the lowest point in the bag.

    • Renny says:

      Awesome, Coach. I think this proves that the backpacks of the boys didn’t contain anything that huge or heavy. At best they only had empty pots in them.

    • HAMMER says:

      Something else to consider – I just measured how wide my 6 qt pot is – and its 9 and 1/2 inches wide and about 9 inches long. That size and object is not in either of those packs. So that clinches it – the weight and the size.

    • HAMMER says:

      Well I can only give you one single strap – but I think it suffices. The weight pulls the bag to the left creating the handle effect. But it is not the same effect as DT’s

    • Renny says:

      Good morning. Yeah, there’s no way either of those bags contained anything so huge. Some observations:
      I don’t know what you filled it with but I put some packs of flour, rice and salt, and some cans of tuna and sardines. The pot was filled to the top, but when walking the cans still made a lot of noise banging against the stainless steel of the pot. I was thinking, if they’re suggesting the pots were full of BBs, nails and I don’t know what…wouldn’t it be quite noisy?
      Also, according to the indictment Tamerlan bought 48 mortars (whatever that is) containing 8lbs of low explosive powder. So, that’s 4lbs for each of them, and the rest of the weight is the BBs, nails, etc. How many BBs and nails would they have used to bring that weight to that?
      Tamerlan’s backpack doesn’t contain anything heavy, because there’s no sagging or folding – the only way it looks like his backpack is – if the pot inside is empty – like in my first pics above. Even few kilos of weight will show the folding of the fabric – like in my other pic.

    • HAMMER says:

      BB or Saunders, somebody has the estimated weight of these bombs. Its between 20 – 30 llbs and BB estimates there was probably more powder or other stuff.

    • HAMMER says:

      Just on its face thats not enough explosive from low grade fireworks (mortars) to build all the bombs LE claims they had. As you rightly point out that is enough for two per the GJI – Hmmm?

    • Renny says:

      one “shoulder” version – although I’m sure Coach’s photos on an actual person will show it better.

    • HAMMER says:

      yes please do. I think I will try also.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      This whole part of the thread is hopeless. Bye.

    • Renny says:

      I’m not sure the cooker I have is as big. And there is noone here who could take stupid pics of me with a cooker in a backpack :)
      So, the only thing I can do, is hang it on a chair and hope it will show up the same.
      Let’s see…

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      LOL I’ve been fooling around with different backpacks all day – but am not the owner of a pressure cooker.

      You are saying that that squarish ‘bump’ on top (my yellow line) is only there because the bag is hanging off one strap? I do understand that the seams are pulled up where the strap connects to the main body of the bag – but this bump is half way between that seam at the back and the one at the front.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You will not prove anything with this. It is important to create doubt in the mind of any reader to want to further explore the official narrative.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Interpretation won’t fly. It is only for your own understanding. That’s not going to help DT survive this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46

    • Baby Blake says:

      The ‘open pocket’ that you see on the bag that is on the floor by your blue arrow is an illusion Em. When you bring out the detail of that area properly you can see that the front of it actually passes INFRONT of the railing. It’s actually a plastic zip tie that was tied to the railing. There was a small sign there earlier in the day that ended up falling off and getting trodden on – but the zip tie remained. there is no ‘pocket’ as such on that bag – just the illusion of one created by the zip tie in the foreground.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      No, I don’t mean the oval shape – I know what you mean about the zip tie. I mean the square open pocket (see the green square below). You can even look inside – there’s a lighter coloured square (a label maybe?) inside – I coloured it yellow.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Sorry Em, I misunderstood. Here is my take anyway – IF that is the same ‘open pocket’ in the same position for both bags then the one on the ground cannot possibly be the same. it has far too much black coloring in that area to be considered the same bag.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      I want to believe you, but am not convinced :-(

    • Missie Baker says:

      Mrs P. just curious, which pressure cooker model with handle are you using for your lined diagram here? There are several models, some with side handles, some with a black handle that fits over the entire lid, along with the extended handle. While I agree it definitely looks like there could be something pointy at the top of DT’s gray pack, the volume of the bag looks narrow, because the top middle photo of your sequence of six shows there is a white band around the bottom of the bag, and the black swath on the side we can see appears to be part of the padded shoulder strap assembly. (edit: and if it is the pointed handle, wouldn’t that put the ridged/humped portion of the handle hitting on his spine? could that be uncomfortable–IDK–just thinking the handle would go on the outside,with the flat part of the pot against your back but maybe it would not fit in back that way?)

      Somewhere, there was a FAGOR model analysis posted showing that the remains of the pressure cooker lid assembly as seen above doesn’t match the model put out by LE. (a miracle if I can find it again, but it has to do with the indentation and the screws.) Here’s a diagram of a model, and it does not show that screw on the side of the damaged lid–that screw would appear to hold the handle in place, and the FAGOR diagrams don’t appear to have that assembly for the long handled models. But if you can settle this issue, it would be wonderful to get it resolved, one way or another as to the model, assembly, etc. v. the only evidentiary photo we have to date. (you probably already have all this data, but thought would post it if others might not)http://www.fagoramerica.com/shop2/replacement_parts/splendid_elite

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Which model did I use for that toddler-type drawing? LOL. I’ve looked at various models, but actually just to see if there were smaller ones than the 6 litre pots. The drawing was only to illustrate how a cooker with one long handle could fit into a laptop bag. Maybe DT has a normal saucepan in that bag, I don’t know. Will try to make a better picture tomorrow, but can’t promise anything.

      Speaking of pressure cookers: What do you think the object below the yellow arrow is in the lower pic? Could it be a piece of the side of the cooker? Or is it a cell phone? It looks as if a guy carrying a blue helmet picks it up in the Robert video (around the same time the fire dept guy is picking sth up near The Tree). Blue Helmet can be seen in several pics – he’s coming all the way from the opposite street wearing the helmet still on his head. And there’s another pic where he’s walking past the injured people. I’ve always wondered why he’s there – another one taking away evidence?

    • HAMMER says:

      You and me. In the Robert video he is brazen – and I always wondered what it was he picked up. He walks right by those cops who are shooing people away.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Exactly! But what do you think that object is? First I thought it was a cell phone – but now I’m not so sure.

    • HAMMER says:

      were you able to get even a glimpse of what it was I just saw a shadow and then it gets covered.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      It’s the object below the yellow arrow, I think (in my second pic).

    • Missie Baker says:

      It is that object, but after blue helmet man passes, the area is definitely empty. I’ve taken about 15 screen captures, enlarged them, and still cannot discern what it is other than something flat that may or may not have buttons on it. (But here it is again, and now it may have a flap on it?)

    • HAMMER says:

      I will see what I can do. I will go to the top.
      Hey – I got back here at 6:00 pm and it was empty. Normally we are all busy humming along –

    • Missie Baker says:

      I know it. Here’s another shot at it. This is rather awful, but there is a leg beneath the mailbox, in the enhanced photos I have, and that makes me lean more toward it was a wallet–one of the victims had been holding it his hand, or it was in a jean pocket.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Forget it all. You’ve been scooped. Here’s a 7 hour documentary done by a kid who has a wizard T-shirt on a la Harry Potter. It is awesome. A lot, and I mean a lot, of it is his reading into the camera. Much of it is ground you have covered but so much more. Back history of everyone, really just too much to even say. It’s on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjX8KBZ0VY

    • HAMMER says:

      seen it –
      have his pdf file too
      nothing new
      Actually maybe nothing new – Hunt has done 2 iterations with pdf for anyone interested. If this is his third update he may have some new stuff – I read the pdf much faster – so I will go check. Everyone here should have the 2nd iteration already – I posted it here a couple of months ago.

    • Missie Baker says:

      You know, I think it is a wallet. Here is a photograph of the scene, and I’ve enlarged it. Now, I once again have to sign off, sorry.
      Edit: Maybe Mrs P’s blue helmet man scoops up both the tablet and the wallet. BTW, I have another photo of the ginger-hair man, don’t know if BB has it or not. Will post down thread.

    • HAMMER says:

      good night

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Good. Reinventing the wheel eh. You have some detail he doesn’t have of course, but he has the big picture and he has connected the dots. Or many of them. Why don’t you just add to his work and fill it in. Or wouldn’t that be proprietary enough for you.

    • HAMMER says:

      you can do it. I bet you’d love the work.

    • HAMMER says:

      Ive got the other one blown up a bit more.
      It looks a phone or a tablet –
      Click on it – it should blow right up,
      I will mess with this one too.

    • HAMMER says:

      Here is the other one blown up. I think it was a wallet in front of the phone or tablet – might have got knocked off the ledge or to one side as the poor person was thrashing around. The phone/tablet came to the fore after that.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Actually, I’m afraid I’ve spotted the third victim, she appears to have been partially blown underneath the mailbox. I have to believe she was deceased in the image because during all the activity around her, including the removal of Ms. Sdoia, moving around by the Nordens brothers, the little Woolf is long gone, and Marc Fucarile has been rescued, she doesn’t move until she is pulled free. I’ll have to tell BB about this.

    • Renny says:

      It looks like an open wallet to me…

    • HAMMER says:

      these are two different objects….you sure about this?

    • Missie Baker says:

      Do you and BB have this photo of ginger-man? Can either of you enlarge it, there’s some detail here, but you may already have it?

    • HAMMER says:

      yes I have blown it up a while back for BB — she was cataloguing everything I could find and blowing it – we were trying to find ears for Saunders…LOL

    • Missie Baker says:

      thought so! :)

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Brazen or indifferent?

    • Missie Baker says:

      You have a keen eye. Here are my guesses: a) It’s a communicator. Spock & Kirk are still looking for it. b) It’s a wallet, and eagle-eyed blue helmet man is a common thief who sees an opportunity. c) It’s a cell-phone, and was used as the detonating device.
      Now, you haven’t commented on blue helmet and who he looks like, but there are many photos of him around, right?

    • HAMMER says:

      jeepers creepers batwoman!!!

      EDIT: he is way way way to short – but nice try – please play again..

    • Missie Baker says:

      Ha, think I’d rather be boy wonder if you are batman! LOL! Crime-fighting duo–now I am once again amused. BTW, do you agree about blue-helmet boy?

    • HAMMER says:

      Interesting guy – but he is way to short for who you are thinking of – BB or Mrs Peel – said our buddy is 6’2″ and helmet boy cant be more that 5’6″ – 5’7″ at the most.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Okay, but does our friend have a brother? Seems I recall that fact. Just throwing it out there for consideration.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Blue helmet wallet thief–snappy little fellow.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Not a resemblance here. For a view, BabyB will be able to direct you to the relevant site.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Our friend has two brothers, neither of which look like him! Both older and with dark (almost black) facial hair and almost bald. I’d go with wallet thief! (Can’t believe I just said that!)

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Right, Blue Helmet is too short and too skinny. The Other One has a ginger beard, but not this type of ginger hair. Brother is black-haired and chubby.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      See you are trying to explain it in words. When you watch the shopping youtube video you won’t have to do that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46

    • abbeysbooks says:

      The inside/outside of the railing was a focus of this youtube slo mo shopping lesson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46

    • abbeysbooks says:

      That youtube showing the photoshopping in slo mo addressed that perfectly. Go view it. I think this is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVyEPBtbtc#t=46

    • abbeysbooks says:

      It won’t fly. It is there to have convinced us in the beginning. But it will not convince a skeptic. Anything can be shopped. IN OR OUT. And everyone knows that. So what proves it for you can be said to have been shopped by someone else. And unless the photoshopping itself runs in slo mo like that one youtube that is so very good by the UK woman, you can’t ever know unless you actually do it yourself or watch someone else do it.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Hany Farid.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Yes. Always beware of shadows.

  38. Missie Baker says:

    BB: your favorite topic, the ginger-haired man, do you have any updates from the investigation underway on him after his capture? I understand the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force was running the investigation. I saw he was being arraigned for the 2PM disturbance he caused–any way to ask any journalists in the Boston area if they’ve heard more about the man? Has JTTF closed the case? (blog?) thanks. (that arraignment was back in the latter part of July–any other sites seen/updated on him after the Reuters story broke?)

    • HAMMER says:

      I checked out his hearing date a week after it was supposed to have happened – I called David Abel (?) the reporter at the BG – and he actually emailed me back and said the hearing was postponed – delayed (?) Not sure what he meant. Anyway I havent followed up since then – this was mid early September…

    • Missie Baker says:

      Thanks for the catch-up, perhaps BB can check? I cannot turn up anything else on line at the moment.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I can email Abel I suppose. We have not turned up ANYTHING on this guy in relation to his court proceedings. I know that when he was remanded to the care of a local mental health establishment reporting restrictions were put on the case due to medical reasons. The charges he faces are not a patch on what he SHOULD be facing either. He had all that stuff, there was an armed siege that went on for hours at his house – he has been charged with ‘making threats to blow up and aeroplane’ and a public order charge last time I looked. This is why this guy is so important. I’ve said it before – yes we have to tread carefully because he has a history of mental illness – but to me that doesn’t excuse what he was caught with! I have some very disturbing quotes that came from his own mouth. This guy is dangerous and walking the streets of Boston on BAIL. Why? Why has he not been charged with ‘attempting to make a weapon of mass destruction’ a la DT? Why is no one reporting on him still? Are the restrictions still in place? Why has no one investigating the case commented? Why? He is a ghost who has disappeared. Again, why?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I think I read that the assessment in the big house lasts for 6 months. It’s becoming problematic for somebody because they probably thought it would be all over by now.

    • Baby Blake says:

      It was – but then we was deemed well enough to be back out again. So rather than remand him in custody to jail where he damn well ought to be they released him on bail – go figure? Then the trail died. I was thinking maybe his bro in Maryland? Excellent job, well respected, never been in trouble – parents are out of the question, but the bro may of been able to argue he’d be ‘safe’ in his care? IDK.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Are you telling us this man is out on bail NOW?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Yes I am. That’s exactly what I’m telling you Missy. This is why Em and I have been franticly searching for anything – anything – on him. Did you read the treasure trove of personal info Em unearthed? My God. It was a while ago and I actually ended up feeling sorry for him because he clearly suffered episodes of mental illness which he clearly knew about…..but…..a very scary man. I get the impression from a lot of it he was also scared of himself. Scared of what he was capable of when he slipped into an episode. Seriously shocking – he enjoyed emulating serial killers from films etc, he agreed with their reasoning behind their mass killings, one of his motto’s was ‘if your’re not fighting for a cause why live?’ he had a fascination with guns, a very domineering father who he was always desperate to please but never did, the list goes on.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Good grief. Well, possibly the MSM is scared off of him because of the mental illness aspects. So, knowing all this weirdness, are you working on Plan B? I know you couldn’t actually find him at BMB on that video, or am I wrong? (I couldn’t see anything but the ear and the hairline which looked like a much older man to me and not a match, but that’s all I recall you and S discussing at the last there. If there is more, keep going, please.)

    • Baby Blake says:

      Well, I am more ruthless than Em! I was all prepared to do a post of ‘Morley quotes’ alongside some of the stranger pics of him we unearthed and ask the obvious questions: ‘why is this man on bail? why has this man not been charges in accordance with what he was found with? why are the MSM not showing any interest in this man considering the circumstances? why do authorities refuse to comment?
      He also worked within eyeshot of Collier’s police cruiser at MIT and the place was crawling with feds…..who were there on an unrelated matter….
      Problem is: is that going too far?

    • Missie Baker says:

      In answer to your question, has a blanket of silence been dropped over him in the MSM? Are there any recent articles about him or has he completely disappeared from the radar? Can that be the focus of your post–an IED builder in the area? Has anyone done a thorough search of either April 15th site to determine if he appears there? I think something lowkey and very tempered–has this once-lead been completely discounted by authorities? (because in truth, we have no knowledge of however many IED builders could be found in a given area–is he just suspicious–in the wrong place/wrong time and that’s it, and that is why MSM has punted on the story–there has to actually be something newsworthy, some new angle for it to be posted, or we are no more than op-ed–shining folks on.) So, I could be completely wrong on this.

      EDIT: and could this be tied into the red powder (non-explosive) in the fireworks v. the need to find the source of the (explosive) blackpowder?? Has this been done, or did you do so in the previous posts–sorry, I’m drawing a blank.

    • HAMMER says:

      I think you are on the right track Missie. BB bring it down a notch – here is potential suspect why hasnt there been any followup by law enforcement or the media?
      That story on him was up and down so quick – I bet even some of the hardcore followers havent heard of this angle.
      If anything it might get you a few more leads or more information.

    • Baby Blake says:

      That’s the other problem – they have. If that was the case I would of posted on it months ago. Everyone is aware of DM and the lack of LE and Media follow up. Everyone. It’s totally old news.Which is why I wanted to introduce something new – something straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I wouldn’t be making it up. He did actually say those things. And no one has heard them – that’s a given. Again, I’ll always go with the group so if it’s too far it’s too far.

    • Baby Blake says:

      The red powder thing never happened as far as I know. All fireworks are made with black powder. Red powder is ‘smokeless’ and is not much good for fireworks. I think the rumour started when the pics of the tossed fireworks came out. People saw that the powder looked/empty tubes had a red tinge to them and assumed the worst, but were uninformed as to the difference. the red tinge is more than likely a result of the ‘stars’ – a color compound that is used in the fireworks to give the colors you see exploding in the air. Again – only black powder in fireworks, never red.

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Yeah, I read that entire journal a couple of times, and he seems like a decent person, that’s why I say be careful what you write.
      I do realize that he might be a completely different – possibly dangerous – person during a manic period. And yes, he worked very close to where Collier had parked his car. And there’s the name on the leased SUV…

  39. HAMMER says:

    Fascinating. I dont know what to make of this – just stumbled on another rock. Scroll to the very bottom article.

    http://www.zhn.cz/en/world-developments.htm#Boston-bombing-update

    • Missie Baker says:

      I did and I don’t get it? the pdf stuff and the 2006 to current date change? what does it mean? (or am I looking at the wrong data?)

    • HAMMER says:

      I hope we are talking about the same thing. This was blogger who had researched some of the court documents – like you were mentioning and how they coming up bogus according to some software magic he/they were applying to them – more as an fyi – kind of thing

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Just read Blood on their Hands at forum. I was the first to tweet it. Couldn’t make a comment. Comments are the places where people voice their facts, opinions, contradictions, and join in solidarity. Only that can’t happen the way you are administering that blog. If you won’t listen to me, get someone you know to fix the fuggin thing. The post means nothing unless you know the sequence of events. It is meaningless as the pictures of them could be anytime or day before Collier’s murder. At least edit it and put the times in there under the pictures relative to Collier’s death. You know you have to be careful about the enemies you choose for you become like them. By going up against certain people in the govt bureaucracy without stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, you are mirroring that which you are criticizing.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks AB. I’m not yet an administrator, but will amend to include the times. The images are purportedly at the Shell station where ‘Danny’ had ‘escaped;’ and the ‘carjacking’ was officially after Collier’s murder. The ATM shot is supposed to be showing the withdrawal of money with Danny’s card, as I remember. The ATM we have identified. You’re right of course, I should have included the timeline. Whilst there’s no time to be found on the Shell picture, what it purports to represent is widely-known, and reported. The point is that it hadn’t been questioned.

      This post was meant to be a very quick ‘flag-up’ whilst Coach is preparing his work.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I am appalled at how badly the forum site is administered. What should have been a hub for Dzhokhar just leaks away like a sudden shower down the gutters of the road. You can’t build anything the way it is done. If you are not an admin you can’t check the stats. If you can’t check the stats, you can’t see the best ways to promote a particular post. And the best places and ways for one post will not be the same for a different post.And if you are not an admin you cannot learn how to best do your blog post. It’s like someone trying very hard to keep you stupid. I keep thinking one of you will take serious action on it. Why would you work so hard for someone who is sabotaging your fine efforts. And now that I have gone on about it, it cannot be considered a mistake, an error of some sort that could be corrected, but a deliberate, stubborn, stupid head in the sand response to someone knowing more than the “boss” and we have all been there haven’t we?

    • HAMMER says:

      bitch and moan – bitch and moan – thats all you know how to do…..never a kind word – never anything constructive. Well nobody is twisting your arm to stay – and trust me – nobody is going to miss you when you are finally gone.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Steady there coach….let me know what you think of the visuals I put up about an hour ago. ‘The contour twins.’ Me & Renny have now joined forces.

    • HAMMER says:

      Sorry everyone – I am not going to keep sitting idly by while abs keeps busting our chops….I guess she isnt smart enough to figure out this is a democracy, we all have access to the blog except her – because we all agree to support one another and we all agree to the work and the blog as is…..We are doing good work – it is truly a pleasure to watch how our minds all congeal around an idea and wham we shoot out a new piece to the puzzle. Its an amazing process and a priviledge to be a part of – just tired of the constant drag. Okay morning coffee just kicked in –

      EDIT: thank you Saunders – you pointed me in a more civilized direction…

    • Missie Baker says:

      I get it–now get down some more coffee if that helps! :) Have you heard back from Mrs P on your post–I really enjoyed it!

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Ah coach. Just read your note directing us to EFB. I was corresponding with him a few months ago (off-thread) before I was here. He’s very cool. Have you seen the contributions there by one Margo Schulter ? She’s very good to read, and is some sort of lawyer. I believe I saw patsyv’s badge up there as well. And old WoodyBox is there….

    • HAMMER says:

      Yes I spent a good portion of last night familiarizing myself with his past writing and his cast of characters. He is someone very much on the same track as our thinking is taking us.

    • patfromuk says:

      Margo Schulter is a writer on law matters. She is serious,knowledgeable and very throughout in her research… And more passionate than a lawyer since she does all this work for free.She certainly has helped us a lot in fdl.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      That was my impression. Glad you’ve joined us, patfromuk.

    • Renny says:

      They’re talking about the first hearing in the hospital – there was this pdf file transcription of the hearing, allegedly written by a court clerk who was present. What they’re saying is – the pdf file had a date of creation of June 2, 2006 – which is only possible if someone deliberately changed it. Why do that? Or the pdf file was actually created in 2006… The other thing is the 3.52 version – what they’re saying is – this file could not have been created with a 3.52 version, because of the flaw. So, the conclusion is – someone deliberately changed the properties of the file, its creation date, etc. – Why?

    • HAMMER says:

      Again – all this is greek to me. But Missie – you and Saunders have all noticed and how the docs coming out all have problems with them. That is why I posted this for Missie – et all. I was hoping you or Saunders would take a stab at why?

    • Renny says:

      No problem. I’ll read through the original Czech articles. Let’s see if I can find anything further.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Nice one Renny, Czech sounds sweet to my ears.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      We’ve come across this before – the suspicions are still valid. And how’s this for a ‘ya don’t say…!’ – the problem with this one would be in archiving and retrieval of records. It would never be found, as the search would go by document properties. 2013 in the document properties may never appear. Ya don’t say…

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      We’ve come across this one before: I checked on the adobe website, and it all checks out (ie suspicions still very vaild). As I recall, this is about archiving and retrieval of records. If the usual search terms were to be applied, I suspect that the search return would yield nothing. A lost document in such an important case ?

    • Renny says:

      The problem is – all the other documents have a normal date of creation (I checked a few that I had downloaded). This is the only one that has got this issue. So, yes, when they put it in archives, the search by year would yield nothing. But what is so important in it? Why only this particular one?

    • Missie Baker says:

      If we want to play conspiracy theorists, the bedside hearing was the moment when DT actually spoke a word “NO” and if I recall, it was all over the MSM after his capture he was unable to talk, was likely never to speak again, etc. This was put out there by Ed Davis, possibly others–it was the official story. Then we later learn, DT could still speak–and by some means, he had been asking for counsel (spoken or written, we’ve never been informed of the facts.)
      But I am making an assumption we are referencing the document signed by Magistrate who came in after the HV interrogation team was done with their questioning of DT.

    • Renny says:

      Yes, that’s the document we’re talking about. I remember the MSM repeating that he was unable to talk and that he was answering the questions in writing. When it came out he said the word “No”, I remember they said it was more of a mumble than a real word. I’m not sure they would go that far to basically hide that document just because of that one word.

      But now I remembered there was something in that line that the interrogation team was surprised when the Magistrate came to the hospital and basically interrupted their questioning by reading him his rights. And since then he didn’t say a word to them. They were really annoyed that the judge came, or that’s how it was presented in the media.

  40. Missie Baker says:

    MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow gave a really good (for MSM) summary update of the conflicting/confusing elements of the Todashev story on her show–here’s a link–you may have to click at top of the page for the video segments from today, the 23th. She’s been following this story, I believe–second or third time she has aired a segment on it. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show She also mentions the Times article on 20 years, 150 FBI self-investigations into shootings by Agents–and a 100% “clearly justified” each time exoneration each of the 150 times.

  41. HAMMER says:

    Never heard back from that women reporter at the Boston Magazine – although the byline for the stories coming out of their are shared by 5 reporters. So – maybe I go to the next one.

    But anyway – this is our guy – I have read him elsewhere and he is on our track. And he is accessible. Here is his latest on Firedoglake….

    http://my.firedoglake.com/efbeall/2013/10/19/what-about-that-fbi-surveillance-just-before-it-called-the-tsarnaevs-suspects/

  42. Missie Baker says:

    In re: the copies of Prosecution’s recent “filings” posted online by one Josefina Romano, maybe these are elaborate hoaxes? There are several “off” elements mixed in with the information that rings true. Lax phrases, rampant spelling errors, typos, “very truly yours” IDK. Could be cut-and-pasted from real filings easily found on line, the names of other suspects (terror or not) changed out, etc. by someone with a little knowledge. Particularly suspicious that these docs are not posted by MSM sites and that there are so many docs we’ve been told have been sealed, so why are these available to someone I can’t find on people search or facebook in the Boston area who would be a likely candidate to get access to these docs? Romano?

    • HAMMER says:

      deliberate to throw people off trail – or fire up others????

    • Missie Baker says:

      I think to make fun of us annoying conspiracy theorists, if indeed these are elaborately constructed cut-and-paste hoaxes–lead us excitedly down the wrong path–‘o look at what the crazy Ortiz has done now’–how gullible we all are–ready to believe anything, and how little we know and/or understand the case. IDK–that’s worst case scenario, of course.

    • Baby Blake says:

      What can we do? Take them with a pinch of salt until we can verify them and just concentrate on all the other things we were doing? it’s so hard when you hear words like ‘ballistics from the gun’ just to walk away! IDK…

    • Missie Baker says:

      Nor do I, but I think we have to take a wait-n-see approach. I’m not willing to go on Pacer because there is some truly silly phrasing in these docs at present–like I wrote, legitimate wording married with very unusual ways of stating conclusions/paragraph transitions, etc. in what are typically very dry legal docs–the language standard for same is fairly routine and recognizable.

    • Indi says:

      Maybe I can help with this one.
      From the mountain of sealed docs, the only one that was unsealed was “129” (the one Wheeler is also citing here http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/131021-Opposition-to-Tsarnaev-Discovery.pdf ). This one is kosher, isn’t it? (As an architect and foreign I don’t have the feeling to judge if the law jargons are the correct one). I compared Josefina’s with Wheeler’s, and they are the same document. Question: is this really kosher?

      The other two documents:
      115: Government’s Opposition to Defendant’s Motion to Set Date for Pre-Authorization Presentation to the U.S. Attorney. There are misspellings.
      Link here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/176428640/Opposition-by-USA-as-to-Dzhokhar-A-Tsarnaev-MOTION-Postpone-Setting-of-Deadline-for-Defense-Mitigation-Submission

      127: “Government’s Opposition to Tsarnaev’s Motion to Vacate Special Administrative Measures (“SAMS’s”) – the “very-truly-yours” one, seems not kosher. Link here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/177954395/Opposition-to-Remove-SAMs-for-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-10212013

      If You write Josefina Romano and Tsarnaev in google, You’ll find comments here. She doesn’t seem a hoax producer… what do You think? https://www.facebook.com/All4Jahar/timeline?filter=3

    • Missie Baker says:

      Agreed, the doc number 129 and posted link by EW is real–the others have been messed with or are reflective of a cut&paste. Thanks, Indi. BB–the real doc might go in your collection? If you are ready.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Doc 129 is already included. I’ll put it up as the ‘latest document’ on the blog in a few mins.

    • HAMMER says:

      leave it out for the crazies (like some of friends) and let them run rabid with it – to
      discredit the legitimate searching going on – and there does appear to be a lot of legitimate questioning picking up….

    • abbeysbooks says:

      There are many out there posting “false flag” stuff that is false to clutter up the real “false flag” stuff.

  43. HAMMER says:

    And one more thing – there were k-9 units out looking for DzhT on the morning of the 19th. I distinctly remember calls for k-9 units to the area – and they searched that area in 2 block increments radiating out from the were the Mercedes was parked at 94 Spruce. If he was bleeding as was indicated on air and in the news – no way those dogs miss him.
    He either hid somewhere else (left the area on his own) – was hidden by someone in the area – or someone took him from that area and hid him. The witness on Spruce said it took 10 minutes for police to make it to the vehicle. I looked over that road again – and where it was parked was at the top of the turn in the road – to proceed further would have been down hill to go back would have been down hill but at a much slighter grade. The point – is that the witness could not see all the way around the corner from where the Mercedes came – and the shootout at Spruce could have occurred before it got to him. Whoever was driving forced the police crusier off the road – as heard on scanner. Then turned around drove maybe a 100 yards – jumped out and disappeared.

    • Baby Blake says:

      I remember a you tube vid from ages ago that I watched. it was an interview with the chief of Watertown police the day after. He said that DT jumped out of the car and legged it. Officer’s chased him and he went through a garden and up over a high fence, at which point they lost him. Bearing in mind in the very same interview he was asked about the ‘prolific’ gunfire that was heard coming from around the boat. He said ‘yes – as I understand it DT was firing from the boat so we had to return fire.’
      Never in my life have I seen someone fall over their own words and visibly squirm in their chair when he came out with that line. It’s an absolute classic – and I would challenge any human being on the planet to watch him talking about the gun fight that never was and deny he was lying – it is that bad – so obvious! Even people who believe the official narrative completely watch it and go ‘well, that makes me uncomfortable because that man is clearly lying’.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Ha-ha, I DO remember that obvious bit he did where his eyes got all shifty, and it was so clear he was lying,and I was watching it “live”–thanks for the memories.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Then you need to juxtapose it with some expert psychologist discussing the body language of lying. HIGH Machiavellians look you straight in the eye when they lie for example. That quote you don’t want. You want something on shifty.

    • HAMMER says:

      well – his above account of DT legging it does not square with the dude who witnessed the Mercedes come flying up the street, almost didnt make the turn – he walks up and see the car stopped down the road and no visual of anyone or anything. He says its 10 minutes before police show up. – Not surprised. Everybody is talking out their arce on this damn case …..

    • Baby Blake says:

      I feel another post coming on….. Chief of Watertown police lied – not just on the firing from the boat issue but the foot chase too – there wasn’t one of those either!! Unbelievable. I’ve only watched about half of that interview – what else is in there?!?!?

    • Missie Baker says:

      You know, this is the opportunity to use your newly won video skills–post the video bit of him, with very little text–maybe some quotes. Definitely “draw your own conclusions” I wouldn’t use the word “lying”–you actually don’t need to-his body language screams it.

    • Baby Blake says:

      You’re right. No need to point out the obvious with that one! Don’t know about the foot chase bit though – you couldn’t tell he was obviously lying about that aspect. I guess we could look for any other contradictions in the whole interview and then just bullet point them underneath with sources as to why they are false. it would still get the point across!

    • Missie Baker says:

      Sounds good–the video bit–wonder how many actually recall that event–sent my “BS” meter buzzing.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Anyone who has believed the official explanation for this entire mess would of LONG forgotton it. it’s the way these things work. only people like us who ever remember these things.

    • HAMMER says:

      is that the one where there was 5-6 of them taking questions from Anderson Cooper and one question he asked – the group just rattled something off and in the middle of it the other 5 guys start looking at each other and a few of them their eyes got big – they looked real uncomfortable

    • Baby Blake says:

      No – that’s the swat interview of the guys who pulled him off the boat. this was the chief of watertown LE the very next day. gave a 10min interview all on his own.

    • HAMMER says:

      well that swat interview is one they are going to showing in pr classes for years on how not to cut the legs off your leader in a press conference – Whew – it was obvious those guys didnt want to be there for that.

    • Missie Baker says:

      Jeez–I’m getting the notion we should collect these moments–O’Donnell has one where he ask Reynolds how the hell TT started shooting at him for no reason, and Pugliese jumps in to save Reynolds from fumbling the answer–it’s a very obvious ‘save’–we could get a bunch of these posted.

    • Baby Blake says:

      A series of the biggest Boston gaffs and uncomfortable moments ever. Sounds great.

    • Missie Baker says:

      I’m finally smiling–yes, it could be brilliant. (where is S tonight?)

    • Baby Blake says:

      Don’t know, spoke to him a few hours ago though. Was finalising Tsarnaev V Bolt I think.

      Yes we could have some fun with this – the NY Post the day after saying he was firing from the boat using an automatic assault rifle – the list goes on. there’s also the Ed Davis one where he calls DT and TT ‘actors’ and almost dies as soon as he realised he’s said it. The fake limb bunch jumped on that (predictably) however, I always though it came across as ‘players’ or something similar. They were involved in the game, but not as the public new it sort of thing. you could see how uncomfortable he was with it though. It would be great if we could edit them all into just one short vid – hilarious and I bet it would catch on!

    • HAMMER says:

      he’s been very disciplined of late –

    • Baby Blake says:

      Oh Coach. Seriously – you HAVE to watch the vid I’m talking about. i’ll find the link. it is incredible – knocks the ‘uncomfortable’ swat interview out of the park.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      So you take the youtube video and slow it way down. This is what what’s his name did with body language of animals at the zoo. The slowing down replay will reveal things you never suspected.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      And you get to voice over what you see. Make him appear ridiculous.

    • Missie Baker says:

      C: I think we have a nice bit of new information we’ve been collecting, along with looking at maps, etc that suggest exactly this–someone sheltered him–but then how did he get past LE to get to the boat? Could he have done this? Ms. Dumas said LE searched her neighborhood where DT was hidden/found 5 doors down early that morning in the dark–they needed flashlights and she saw them moving around. Could he have been dropped off by car, “left” as part of a group from a house–well, that’s unlikely because he was found wearing the same clothes as at the ATM/Shell station shots IDK–but we have a lot of data now.

    • HAMMER says:

      I remember watching Cnn shortly after the shelter in place order was lifted and someone reported hearing shots fired. A few minutes later a reporter came back and reported someone matching his description was seen trying to jump a fence near Arsenal but never made it over. Police were investigating. Nothing more was said about it. I forgot all about it until the other day when I looking at that property closely – trying to find Todashevs apartment. That whole area is surrounded by chain link fences. Somebody could have dropped him off behind of the those buidlings off Arsenal and he only had one fence to jump….?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Hmmmm. interesting. I always think that most BS has some basis in fact. Straight out BS is always harder to make up from scratch and remember specifically. if you ‘tweek’ the BS to something that may of occurred it solves those two problems. Chief of Police says he only got away after he went over a high fence – may be some truth in that, but not in the way he tried to make the world believe. So….

    • Renny says:

      Another thing is – how did DT manage to get in the boat without leaving any blood trail on the outside of the boat. The owner of the boat said in a recent interview that there was no blood on the outside – that if there was, he would have never get anywhere close to it. So, DT climbed up on the boat, lifted the cover and got inside without leaving any trace of blood?

  44. HAMMER says:

    Well I knew I had read this before. Why is her evidence not being considered?

    Todashev’s widow said Wednesday that she has records proving her husband was with her in Atlanta on Sept. 11, 2011, so he could not have been in Massachusetts on the day of the triple killing. Manukyan was married to Todashev for about three years, she said.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-29/news/os-fbi-orlando-investigation-20130529_1_fbi-agent-reniya-manukyan-agent-dave-couvertier

    • Baby Blake says:

      I think it was Indi or Renny? One of them posted that the other day. I was saying that if it could be verified properly it would be huge.

    • HAMMER says:

      she is involved with several web sites and facebook pages ??? might be another one of those friends you make – LOLOL

    • Baby Blake says:

      Why is it always me?!?

    • Missie Baker says:

      LOL–who else?

    • HAMMER says:

      You just have the right face for it!! LOLOL

    • Baby Blake says:

      I may change my face soon. Beaker’s eyes have been open so long he’s now had to superglue his eyelids to his forehead just to maintain the look. He must be feeling tired by now.

    • HAMMER says:

      Found this in the comments section FDL –
      OH, sorry, one more. Hassan Shibly stated that he has photographic proof that Ibragim was in Georgia with his wife at the time of the Waltham murders.

      This is the dude leading the efforts to investigate what happened to Todashev.

    • Renny says:

      Hi Baby B. It was me and I was trying to find something to verify her claims. She changed her story recently, so I have a problem to believe her now…At the beginning, right after Todashev’s murder she said to a paper from Boston (Boston Globe, I think) that they lived in Boston until September 2010, then moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Then in summer of 2011 HE went back to Boston and returned to Atlanta in September 2011, then they moved to Florida.
      Recently she changed the story and said he never went back to Boston in the summer of 2011.
      So, IDK.

    • HAMMER says:

      I posted this below to BB – but leave a copy for you too.
      I found this in the comments section FDL –
      OH, sorry, one more. Hassan Shibly stated that he has photographic proof that Ibragim was in Georgia with his wife at the time of the Waltham murders.

      This is the dude leading the efforts to investigate what happened to Todashev.

    • Indi says:

      This is hot. The whole thing with Waltham falls apart if they prove Todashev was not there.

    • Renny says:

      Right. I remember reading that somewhere. Is Mr. Shibly from CAIR? They’re in some harsh conflict recently with the FBI. Yesterday, I read that FBI put CAIR on a blacklist of sort – basically accusing them of supporting terrorists. They might get banned soon…

      It’s possible that BG didn’t print what Todashev’s wife said…she’s insisting now that they stayed in Atlanta and then moved on to Florida. Has anyone ever heard what IT job was? One of his neighbours said he was very rich and spent lot of time improving his beloved Mercedes. Any idea why a rich person wouldn’t call a lawyer to be present at an interview with FBI? With all his moving around the country Mr. Todashev seems to match a profile of an FBI informant. Any thoughts, Coach?

    • HAMMER says:

      I am still digging around – but I found this – tells half the story – I think his dad sent him money – lived off his wife and girlfriend – and fought? Pretty good work if you can get it.

      http://isteve.blogspot.ca/2013/05/the-todashevs-are-back-in-news.html

    • HAMMER says:

      this from an RT interview

      Having heard the reports that Ibragim was questioned by a group of people, including several policemen, Abdulbaki also said he does not believe he would rush to engage in a one-sided fight.

      He explained that his 27-year-old son studied in the Russian city of Saratov, and later in Grozny, but decided to give up his education and move to the US after going on a student internship there.

      Ibragim decided to leave for Florida because he “liked America,” Abdulbaki explained, adding he never got to know what occupation, if any, his son had in the US, other than practicing sports.

      Abdulbaki said they were not acquainted with the Tsarnaev family at home in Chechnya. Ibragim knew Tamerlan Tsarnaev only because they went to the same gym when he stayed in Boston, he added.

      http://rt.com/usa/ibragim-todashev-fbi-attack-659/

    • Renny says:

      The FBI was after Todashev straight away:

      “In Massachusetts, meanwhile, a resident of the two-unit house on Gordon Street in ­Allston where Todashev once lived said FBI agents came looking for him three days after Tsarnaev died in an April 19 shoot-out with police in Watertown.”

      http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/05/22/fbi-agent-shoot-and-kills-orlando-man-with-ties-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev/RsCv0rrcKWPQx5e9KFJEWL/story.html

    • HAMMER says:

      wow thats three residences in the Boston area – that Maryland zip on that gym waiver, the gym owner says he lived near that boat – and now Gordon Street.
      and yes I do recall reading the FBI was down in Florida poking around about him a week later…

    • Renny says:

      In the interview with Todashev’s wife that I posted somewhere down the thread, she said that all of them – all the Chechens in the community in Florida – were interviewed right after the bombing. She wasn’t, because she was in Russia at the time – but she was stopped at the airport when she arrived back on May 1st.
      She also said that during the previous interviews FBI never asked Ibragim about the Waltham murders – that they only talked about Tamerlan and the contact between them.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Right. Can somebody (Coach?) please write down the known areas/ addresses and possible years of occupation in those addresses? I’m good with this – I can trace people but I need a starting point. I did it with DM & traced his entire family history in different states over a 10 y period. I got the lot. Lets find out exactly where IT was fliting between – I feel he is crucial to the whole event. Otherwise, he’d still be alive.

  45. Missie Baker says:

    From the one Prosecution’s recently filed documents we’ve seen posted online that looks unquestionably logical to me: (see page 6) This is “Gov’ts Opposition to Tsarnaev’s Motion to Vacate SAMS” filed October 21.

    Tsarnaev’s desire to inspire others to commits acts of
    terrorism is evident in the message he wrote in pen on the
    inside of the boat where he took refuge after his own ability to
    commit terrorist acts was exhausted. He wrote: The U.S.
    government is killing our innocent civilians but most of you
    already know that. As a M[uslim] I can’t stand to see such evil
    go unpunished, we Muslims are one body, you hurt one you hurt us all . . . [T]he ummah [i.e. the Muslim people] is beginning to
    rise]. . . . Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel
    of your gun and see heaven, now how can you compete with that. We are promised victory and we will surely get it.” This was a clarion call to radical militants to follow in his wake.

    Tsarnaev’s self-evident goal in writing these words was to
    motivate others to commit acts of the same or similar nature,
    putting the American people at constant risk.” (end of excerpt)

    EDIT: You know, I just deleted what I wrote because this section seems so silly. “putting the American people at constant risk”–constant risk?? come on–ridiculous.

    “Know you are fighting men, etc.” <—I said earlier, a really bad, awkward translation, but now I'm thinking SNL,

    IDK–guess I agree with Saunders, or else the Prosecution team has some really poor writers, who like to imbibe heavily as dawn draws near.

    • HAMMER says:

      The defense must know something is wrong with the Todashev file – It might be important to have this information later if facing the DP – but, what if they have talked to Todashev’s wife and know there is something else in that file – something that destroy the FBI’s credibility?

    • Baby Blake says:

      I was thinking the exact same thing. What ever is in that file is gold – whether it could be used in a death penalty submission or not. And at the end of the day it’s pretty damn obvious that they don’t want to hand it over to the defense at any costs. So the question is why? They clearly believe they have enough evidence to convict and seek DP if that is what holder chooses – so whats the issue with just handing the file over?

    • Missie Baker says:

      I wrote downthread during BBs “therapy” that Mr. Todashev might in fact know much more than just about the BMB or the Waltham murders, and that may be the actual reason he was shot dead.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      He just had to go down. He knew too much.

    • HAMMER says:

      The cell? We heard the other day (down thread) from the gym owner – that Todashev lived somewhere near or around the house with the boat. I have read they also had friends on the Watertown – Boylston Ave – in the same neighborhood. Something percolating.

    • Baby Blake says:

      Someone I spoke to on twitter the other day mentioned friends near the shootout on Spruce too. She’s very reliable. i’ll get back to her for some more details. Everything else she has said has turned out kosher, although I have no idea if she has names or anything THAT detailed.

    • Guest says:

      Sebastian A. Freddura

    • Renny says:

      Yep. That’s the guy.

    • Renny says:

      There was an article about that friend at Boylston Ave – he was a rapper or a hiphop artist or something – he was talking about Tamerlan coming to his house, smoking weed and praying in his garden. He also said that he was afraid DT would come to his house to hide.

    • Truth Serum says:

      Troy Crossley……

    • abbeysbooks says:

      The issue is a few things.

      1. They want as few people as possible to see what’s in it.

      2. If they don’t hand it over, it becomes even more mysterious and precious.

      3. They want the defense to have as little time as possible picking over it.

      4. They are dragging it out as every day Dzhokhar gets weaker and weaker. More and more mentally disturbed. And the defense is only allowed to talk with him about the case, not the way he is feeling, not his fears, not his hopes, not how his family is, none of the stuff he really needs to express.

  46. HAMMER says:

    Missie and Baby B – can I converse with you on email?

  47. Baby Blake says:

    This is an old article but it kind of makes the case for TT being an FBI informant through the Waltham murders. Quite interesting and I know you have all been discussing that possibility lately.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/12/tsar-j12.html

  48. HAMMER says:

    Missie/BB please look over my draft on the blog. Can you guys fix it better from draft to publish? Thanks

    • Baby Blake says:

      I’ll do it you like Missy. I’m a bit out of the loop with the goings on here at the mo. Still catching up!

    • Missie Baker says:

      BB: please do so if that is what you meant in your post? What about Mrs. P?

    • Baby Blake says:

      All done. I spell checked (Coach you are a lousy speller!) and adjusted all the spacing and paragraphs correctly etc. For some reason I couldn’t preview it, so had to publish it and go back and forth between the edited version to see what it looked like! It’s ready to publish anyhow, but I reverted it to draft and emailed it to Emma for a proper review. She spots mistakes that we dont! I’ll move it over to the website too when I have 20 mins.

    • HAMMER says:

      What did you think of the content? Did you come up with any you want to add?

    • Baby Blake says:

      Um, it was pretty extensive! And you asked the question of other commenters too – I thought it was excellent!

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Police got away with it in D.C. so let’s get the little bugger before he grows up and has real ones. Over reactionary police. They are a danger and they are not going to be stopped. That’s 2 now. There will be even more copycats. Be careful.It makes it very easy to off someone now.

    • Indi says:

      Scary times…

  49. Missie Baker says:

    I’m sure there is no love lost between U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz and a criminal defense lawyer such as Martin Weinberg, so I think his statement must be tempered with that knowledge. However, since I like how he closed out today’s 8 minute podcast (that Patsysvodka posted links to) in such a pointed manner, I transcribed and include it here: (this is his commentary on the differences in Discovery between State v. Federal courts.)

    “… the Brady v. Maryland (U.S.) Supreme Court precedent
    dates back to 1960s—it is at the epicenter of all major discovery disputes, and to diminish the Tsarnav defense team’s ability to defend him in this gravely important case with the most profound stakes of death, of life….is surprising to me. If I were the U.S. Attorney (Ortiz), I would presume that I had a strong case, that the Agencies (FBI) had identified the right person. I would do everything possible to extinguish discovery disputes rather than require them to be litigated before a federal judge (O’Toole) on an ongoing basis.”

    The inference is pretty strong here….although he states nothing directly, other than how he might act under the circumstances. Here’s a brief background on Mr. Weinberg–lifted from his website, of course.

    Martin G. Weinberg, a nationally prominent criminal defense lawyer based in Boston, is ranked among the nation’s best litigators and appellate advocates by many within the legal community. A 1971 Harvard Law School graduate, he has been recognized repeatedly for his accomplishments as a trial and appellate attorney, educator and legal expert. For 26 consecutive years, he has been selected by his peers as one of the Best Lawyers in America® — best criminal and white collar defense lawyer. Weinberg was named One of the Top 10 Lawyers in Massachusetts in 2011. He has represented accused defendants in over 20 federal district courts, eight U.S. Courts of Appeal, and in the U.S. Supreme Court, where he successfully argued the landmark Fourth Amendment case of United States v. Chadwick. He is the former director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. Read ‘Lawyer of the Year’ interview.

    (Here’s PV’s link) linkhttp://justice4dzhokhar.tumblr.com/post/64890184902/podcast-martin-weinberg-on-discovery-feud-in-tsarnaev

    (Here’s the 8 minute podcast, in case no one has posted below, sorry if a duplicate)
    http://masslawyersweekly.com/the-docket-blog/2013/10/23/martin-weinberg-on-discovery-feud-in-tsarnaev/

    • Indi says:

      His statement is awesome. He is challenging her right there where she has a soft point.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      We know by this that he is not a maverick in any sense of the word. I would still prefer Dee Wampler of Springfield MO as he is known as a man of integrity. His book for the layman on criminal law is excellent in knowing your rights. Weinberg is a player. BUt never forget even when they clash swords, they are all in bed together in the good ol boys club.Including the judge.

    • HAMMER says:

      Very cool – exactly what we have been saying – though not as eloquently.

  50. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Interesting:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/23/boston-marathon-suspect-linked-triple-murder

    .The filing is the prosecutors’ attempt to block Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
    from getting certain information from authorities, including
    investigative documents associated with the Waltham killings.

    “The
    government has already disclosed to Tsarnaev that, according to
    Todashev, Tamerlan Tsarnaev participated in the Waltham triple
    homicide,” prosecutors wrote.

    According to prosecutors, the investigation into the 2011 murders is reason not to allow Dzhokhar Tsarnaev access to documents.

    Pity that Todashev’s not around to confirm all this.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Everyone knows the FBI killed him while questioning him and there is no protest at this behavior. Miriam Carey’s murder has died down – no pun intended – and now this 13 year old in Santa Rosa is murdered. I had a friend whose son was murdered in the Post Office in Santa Rosa by an over reactive cop. They started a lawsuit over it. His son had a history of mental problems but no gun.

  51. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Of travel plans…Dzh.T was reportedly about to travel to see his parents later that week. Similarly, Todashev was also due to travel, very close to the day he was killed. His father reported that he cancelled his ticket to accommodate the FBI ‘interview’, but intended to travel very soon after instead.

  52. Gaston Lagaffe says:

    I’m looking at the pic of DT with his backpack in the Dave Lindorff’s article above this comment section – the still from the surveillance footage. How large could a bomb inside of that bag be – max? The lower part of the backpack seems to be folded double – it looks almost empty…

    • Renny says:

      Hi, Mrs Peel. Yes, folded double and open…

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Hey Renny! THe open bit might be just a pocket though – I’m staring at an open front pocket on my rucksack just now.

    • Renny says:

      Yes, it looks like the front pocket is open, but there seems to be an opening in the zip as well – or it maybe the folded part, IDK. What do you think?

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Where exactly? On top? Side? Will download your pic and have a look. Am without Internet at home, so I won’t get back to you for the next 10 hours or so.

    • Renny says:

      On the side of the backpack. I tried to clean up the pic as much as I could, but it’s just not very clear. There’s this black “thing” coming from the top of the pack down this side – and then there’s the thinner black line, which I think is the zip, coming down on the side as well, and there’s suddenly a blur of grey colour… so I’m not sure if there’s something sticking out of an opening – or if it’s the lower part of the pack folded.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      If something’s sticking out of the bag, and the bag’s casually on one shoulder, it can easily fall out. That’s no way to transport a bomb….

    • Renny says:

      I mean – I consider it a fact that there was no bomb in his backpack. The way he’s carrying it, moving around other people with no consideration whatsoever that it could go off… There’s no way it contained a pressure cooker, full of black powder and shrapnel and IDK what. It is half empty. He also doesn’t seem to be alert enough for someone carrying a bomb – he looks bored and annoyed by the obvious inability of his brother to get to the place where they’re supposed to go. He’s got the face of a kid thinking “Oh, I could be with my friends, eating pizza and having a laugh, but I’m stuck here with this moron of my brother”. IMHO.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      ..you said it, Renny…quite possible for a little brother… As for the ‘backpack bomb’,it was supposed to be an IED into the bargain. Not a drop of sweat on him.

    • Renny says:

      I have a younger brother and I know that expression :)

      And the bombs were also supposed to be “concealed inside black backpacks”, according to the indictment, and as we see, his is not black.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Mrs Peel I don;t get this gatekeeper thing at forum. The google software is so first grade simple and user friendly (why I suggested going there) that Renny can figure it out. Can he not post his own post? Is someone paranoid, or just restricting the learning of a poster. Even I figured it out as a newbie and I am not sophisticated at all. I could walk Renny through it here. What’s the problem?

    • Baby blake says:

      I see it Renny, although i’ve never noticed it at all! Do you mean the creamy coloured rectangular object that looks like it’s poking out the side?

    • Renny says:

      It’s on the side where the zip comes down from the top, then it suddenly disappears as if there was a hole. There seems to be something poking out.
      I’m not sure what colour is the back side of the backpack supposed to be? Is it grey?

    • Gaston Lagaffe says:

      Oh, hadn’t seen the pic you included until now! Will have a look…

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You are probably right. But when you get into the area of interpretation your argument in court gets torn to shreds.

  53. Renny says:

    I’m not sure if anyone else noticed this – but in the Channel 4 report where Mama T played part of the recording of her conversation with DT from prison, Dad T says something in the sense of “we were expecting you on the 18th, but you never came” and the reporter remarks “Yes, Jahar was supposed to travel home to Russia on the 18th of April, but by the time he was a suspect” (or something similar). At that time I thought the reporter just misunderstood and Dad T meant the 18th of May… as DT would have been out of the country by the time their pictures were shown on TV on Thursday…

    • HAMMER says:

      IMO, another revealing remark seems odd for Anzor to say – and that is in reference to Tamerlan – “he was supposed to get caught.” As I suggested to Indi – that is a remark that deserves special attention considering it comes from a family that has spook connections.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Coach. BabyB was anxious to get a post up about the lack of blood. I’ve done a quick article which is a couple of photos, and mainly quotes from your good self, all attributed of course. (Dead simple – ‘Blood on their hands ?’ – not at the Shell, not at the ATM, not even on Tamerlan’s white hat. So who killed Collier ?) However, I have no wish to invade your territory or to claim credit for your discovery – it’s just about getting it out there.

      If you wish to post on that topic yourself, please let me know, and I will make sure that I don’t post mine. Or, if you’d rather that something was up there, even temporarily, I’d be happy to post and take it down when you’re ready.

      That said, I have no idea how to upload anything to the site. Do I have to be invited ?

    • HAMMER says:

      Please go ahead and post your thoughts S…What I am doing is in a different context – much shorter to the point – covers over a dozen of these kinds of anomalies in the narrative. Invites readers and commenters to participate…..
      It would be entirely appropriate to write up a much more stout piece as you have in mind.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Thanks. It’s brief and to the point.

    • Baby Blake says:

      It’s up S

    • Missie Baker says:

      Yes, you do, BB, please send him invite, thanks!

    • Baby Blake says:

      I did invite him! I’ll send him another.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      I do not believe Saunders that you do not have full access to the forum site. WTF is going on?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I don’t know WTF is going on with that. I am still trying to sort it, and will keep trying.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Then let me tell you. One person is a Type A super controlling person who doesn’t want anyone else to have control. She’s a fuggin fascist.

    • Renny says:

      I think what he meant was “they were supposed to catch him, not kill him”. Because there was no reason to kill him, once he was unarmed and giving himself up. Even if he was armed they could have shot him in his legs, etc. With Anzor, it’s harder to get the meaning, because he always speaks Russian, so we depend on the translation to carry on the message. And as a translator I can tell you that sometimes it’s really hard to get the message behind the words.
      But in that Channel 4 report he also says something like: “the kid doesn’t understand what’s happened, I do understand, but I just…” and then he just throws his arms up and continues “We’re in shock, because justice has vanished”. So Anzor understands what has happened…

    • HAMMER says:

      I will say the same thing I said to Indie – 99.9999% of us would have meant exactly that – “in a America you are innocent until proven guilty” blah blah blah —–
      But this is a family with spook connections – they parse their words carefully – thier meanings are exact – its their training….I understood something of this as an insurance investigator many lives ago.
      Ruslan’s word are packed with meaning – as are Anzor’s – I am not ready to dismiss it as typical parental mourning and regret.
      Podstava!

    • Indi says:

      Ok C, if I am following You, You mean Anzor knew that a drill was going on and that TT was taking the role of the ‘bad guy’. The police should have caught him, but not killed him. Is that what You mean?

      If the father knew, why in the world would he not say it out loud now? Would he be speaking in codes to protect DT?

    • HAMMER says:

      Like Renny says above – he seems to get right up to it – and throws his hands up –

      “the kid doesn’t understand what’s happened, I do understand, but I just…” and then he just throws his arms up and continues “We’re in shock, because justice has vanished”. So Anzor understands what has happened…
      IDK – I just sense something in this – it rattles around in my thinking and that means something is off. So I sit with it.

    • Indi says:

      I see. Yep, I am with You, I also think Anzor is pretty much sure it was all a setup-thing – just as the aunt thinks, the mother, Todashev’s russian girlfriend, his ex-wife, his father… What is the next step? Can we maybe dive further in this agent hypothesis and make an article on that?

    • HAMMER says:

      there has been a lot written on it already – and it gets into a lot of speculation and guess work – I think we get to it working the direction – I was just spoke with Renny about – come at it from what if any connection there might be between the two fathers, the familys, Ruslan and Todashevs father – – there is quite a bit on the Russian side of things – Izevestia and others are very much convinved the CIA/FBI connections etc., –
      gotta run right now

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Do you have this one, Coach ? I know you probably do, but it’s claimed that there’s specific mention (with regard to teh Collier shooting) of a black male suspect, 120lb, with a cowboy hat.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1KkgeGeR5pQ

    • HAMMER says:

      yes – it was related to a domestic incident – there was quite a bit of overlap that night – a fire, a gang fight among several others

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I do remember this, but not the exact dates. I understood that he was due to go, but associated it with college terms. Looks very different now, eh ?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Then there’s the question of travel expenses. I gather that Dzh.T was fairly skint: monies owing to the university, registered phone account recently cut off due to failure to pay….How does he afford to get halfway across the world ? He’s not your averageTrust-Fund Kid.

    • Renny says:

      Yes, I was thinking about it. I’m not sure what the financial situation of the parents is, as there is no information regarding the occupation of Dad Anzor, other than that he worked as a car mechanic back in Kyrgyzstan and also after moving to the US. So, no idea if they were supposed to fund it?

      Mom T also talked about Dzh.T sorting out visa – as a US citizen he needed visa to go to Russia. Apparently Dzh.T said to her “Visa, it’s not a problem, Mama. We’re already taking care of it.”

    • Renny says:

      Just posting the vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMus3odyRw

      The part concerning his travelling starts at about 5 min mark. The face Momma T makes when she’s talking about visa – she’s definitely trying to say something without saying it.

    • HAMMER says:

      I agree he probably meant May 18th – as it was reported somewhere that Tamerlan was taking DzhT back to school the night of the 18th. He probably had a month of school and then break.
      Now here is something –
      Todashev was supposed to leave on or around the 25th of May – and if I am not mistaken he had pushed his plans back one time already due to the questioning? (help me out here) – but regardless – its interesting they are both going home at roughly the same time.
      I recall somewhere else – there is a likely connection between families – between Dads.. I’ll dig for it – but if anyone has any info on that. It was something along the lines that Todashev’s dad was rewarded for his loyalty and obtained a position of importance – he and Anzor knew each other because of proximity – IDK ? Again help me out here.

    • Renny says:

      Yep, that’s what I thought, the school term doesn’t end in April. And the 18th was Thursday, I’ve read somewhere that DT was still in school that day.

      The story with Todashev was: he was supposed to fly home on the 24th of May, but the FBI asked him if he can postpone it, because they would like to question him “one last time”. Although he had a ticket booked, he decided to stay.
      I’ve never heard about the connection between the fathers, but I will look into it.
      It’s actually weird that they were supposed to fly around the same date. There might be something to it…

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I heard that Wednesday Dzh.T was at the college gym – or at least his card was swiped…

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If he had done it he could have decided to look and act the same as always. Or he could have taken his chance and run. Since after reading all the LACK of evidence I believe he was quickly framed to protect egos and images.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      ..and as we know, when it comes to protecting images and egos, it’s no holds barred. A good definition of Podstava.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you know then why are you complicit?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      AB I’m having difficulty in following you this morning. I’m trying but failing.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you know your strengths are not being enabled but are being weakened by controlling what you write, how you write it, how you design it, etc and let it continue, that makes you complicit with your own self-sabotaging. You need to ask yourself why you would choose to do this. You should already know precisely how to post your own blog post the way you want it posted without anyone else’s interference. When people write on my blogs I trust them. That’s why I want them to contribute. That’s why I immediately make them admins. They then have all the options I have including the ability to wipe the whole thing into deletion. This started when the trolls came and they weren’t handled correctly. They came over to some of my blogs to fug with me and I warned them once, told them that they would only get one warning before I blacklisted them. They tried me out and I blacklisted them. You can’t do this on www. When you blacklist someone you can also choose to do it retroactively so that all their past ones go bye bye also. That’s what I do. I won’t tolerate it.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      How is blacklisting done ?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      On disqus you go to your administrative panel which is an option on the upper right. On the right side menu you will see blacklisting/whitelisting so you open that and follow what it says about the person. This is for your own blog or if you have admin status on someone else’s blog. Someone that devils you on disqus at the blog which drops in your email box, kill them.

    • HAMMER says:

      That was also the night he went to the party.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Certainly Todashev’s Dad is some sort of government official….and knows not to take it from the FBI.

    • Missie Baker says:

      S: Found your article on the bros. Shell photos on your blog and posted it (as a complete file as I did with “Railings”) on http://www.Allthingsforum1.blogspot.com
      Also tried to send you a message on your blog, but couldn’t get through–have you been able to swap emails with Renny yet?

    • Renny says:

      He works for the mayor of Grozny, capital of Chechnya. Some kind of local administration post.
      The Todashevs fled Chechnya during the Chechnyan war in 1994 and moved to somewhere in Russia (Saratov region?). They returned back to Chechnya 5 or 6 years ago (Ibragim finished his studies at the University in Grozny). After finishing his studies he left for US in 2008.
      Tsarnaevs are a more complicated story. Anzor and his siblings grew up in Kyrgyzstan. Momma T lived in Dagestan where they met (I think) and I think by 1994 they were still living in Dagestan (Dzh.T was born there) and then moved to Kyrgyzstan. And in 2001 back to Dagestan, 2002 to the US.

      I can’t see any overlap when the Tsarnaevs Dad and Todashev’s Dad could have met.

    • HAMMER says:

      God I wish I could find this piece – it linked them by way of something to do with organized crime – Anzor new somebody(s) in the crime family and Todashevs dad was cleaning up the town – something along these lines – not that i have finished writing a bit – I will look some more.

    • Renny says:

      Do you remember if it was supposed to be after Anzor went back to Russia in 2011 or before they left for US – before 2002?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      From the frying pan into the fire then.

  54. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Another point in the light of Coach’s already-legendary flash of insight. What’s the one thing that would really get TT noticed at the Shell ?

    We can see clearly that Dzh.T has no blood on his clothes at either the Shell or the ATM. Does he really need his big brother to come into the Shell with him ?……..thought not. But neither is there any particular reason for TT to stay in the car. If he’d had blood on his clothes, it would have been a VERY different matter.

    • Renny says:

      Good point. And TT still goes into the Shell with all the blood on his clothes and after the carjacked victim had just escaped… he was probably just too thirsty :) ….it’s just so obvious that they’re not alarmed or in any hurry at the Shell… I wonder if there’s any surveillance video or pics from outside. You know, showing the cars that are there – gas stations usually have those, right?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      From the shot we have, you can see the back of somebody just outside the door. They must have seen the brothers go in, or go out. They must have also witnessed Danny’s desperate escape. yet this person is looking casual……not going after the brothers, not frenetically calling for 911, not telling the cashier that something’s wrong….

    • Renny says:

      I know, Saunders. I have that pic as well. It’s all ridiculous. There’s obviously no carjacking victim escaping… at least noone at this Shell is aware of any – not the brothers, not the guy standing outside… also if there was someone else at the Shell and you were carjacked, wouldn’t you just run out of the car and scream for help? So that the clerk could call police straight away – or the other people at Shell? No, he just silently disappears and the bros continue with their purchase as if nothing happened…

      What I was thinking was – they usually have these monitors at the till where the clerk can actually see the people that are refuelling their cars – so they can see if someone is trying to run away without paying for the gas. So, if the clerk saw a guy with a gun and another guy desperately trying to escape out of the car…he would have called 911 straight away. Especially at midnight time – I’m sure anyone working night shifts at gas stations is alert to any kind of trouble makers.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Good point there, Renny. Yet again, we ask ‘Where’s the surveillance ?’ You’re right about being on alert. I used to work at a 24hr service station on the motorway: there was all sorts of kit and procedures in place.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Did they inadvertently wipe it?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      …..as in ‘an unfortunate bureaucratic oversight’…?…..from which ‘lessons have been learned’….?

    • HAMMER says:

      Good morning Saunders – thankyou – but your follow through is as important. TT looks out and about on a crisp spring evening I would say…

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Indeed he does. So how the ****** do I post it onto the site ?

    • HAMMER says:

      yes – I havent a clue on the new one. Get it worked up and wait for Missie or BB to hand it off too. Thats what I do.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      How do I do it ?
      I just posted regarding travel expenses….what do you reckon ?

    • HAMMER says:

      I am still getting up to speed for the day – and I am having trouble figuring what you mean? I am assuming you are communicating with BB by email – send it to her when your done and she will edit it and post it.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      That’s my best bet, I think. WRT travel expenses, how was Dzh.T (not exactly the Trust-Fund Kid) going to get halfway across the world ?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      You are correct. But all that you are saying is meaningless in court.Useless.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Agreed, but part of what you advocate is the airing of questions and comments in an already confused narrative. Questions raised can give rise to more questions…

    • abbeysbooks says:

      What is wrong with more and more questions. That is the way people learn. IF this boy dies can’t some people learn from this event so as to carry that learning on to the next event. Because that next event is coming even if you can’t see it now. I put everything I knew into that SPECTACLE of a scandal on Kristen Stewart’s “cheating” event last summer. I know how these things work. Why did missy not just go to my site and read all the blog posts on it to see how the fug to do it. You want diversity, you want so much diversity that no one will know anything for sure. Except that there is a major LACK of evidence to support what the govt and LE did and what that really means.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Absolutely nothing wrong with mre and more questions: that was my point. It was only through relentless questioning that the innocent people convicted of the Birmingham and Guildford bombings were eventually exonerated. Of course court proceedings can be meaningless: the point is to give the appearance of kosher proceedings, the better to conceal what’s really going on, and the identities of those egos that you mention. I am aware that practically everything I may say here would be useless in court, but as you stated, there’s a much bigger picture here, that will endure longer than we will. I’m not significant in the big picture, but I’d rather do something than do nothing. I’m trying.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Then why are you willing to let someone cripple your efforts. She pushes you, BB, and coach to post more, opens a second needless site that drains the energy away from this one.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I will give serious thought to your question.

  55. Indi says:

    Hi folks, just found another ‘document’ filled yesterday. It is a motion of the prosecutors asking the Court to deny Tsarnaev’s Motion to Compel Production.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/177955567/Memo-to-112-Motion-to-Compel-Discovery-Document-129-10212013

    I have the same doubt we all have with these last documents… are they kosher? Is there a way to check it out?

  56. SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

    Just a thought….the brothers were to play the ‘bad guys’ at the drill, as part of a wider training exercise. There were other ‘bad guys’ in the drill, simulating a terrorist cell. Many Northeastern university students participated, it was a big exercise, so no need for alarm.

    Advance knowledge of the drill was too widespread. Whoever infiltrated and hijacked the drill had some agenda concerning the Caucasus. The Caspian energy reserves are big business, and a big deal in geopolitics. Somebody has an interest in keeping the Chechnyan ‘problem’ on the boil.

    It was important that the brothers are/were Chechen. Chechen terror M.O. is the double bomb.

    Part of the training exercise was to be the ‘capture’ in Watertown. Other Russian-speakers (perhaps more Chechens) were to take part in this. The brothers had no need to get out of Dodge, even after the drill had been hijacked and was for real. (well Dzhokhar at least). The ‘look only for these men’ was to be part of it, to gauge how the public would react, and to see what public info would be worth, in the event of a real attack. The brothers were aware that this would happen.

    It went live. Boston FBI were taken by surprise, but after spending a couple of days wondering what to do, and trying to work it out, they concluded (or were tipped off) that the brothers had gone rogue. They know that TT is on their radar. So, the original plan for the exercise was kept, so as not to alert the brothers: except that now the 2nd part of the training exercise was for real. It was the best way to capture them.

    Once the drill was admitted to, there was claims that ‘the terrorists got there first’. Although this appeared to refer to weeks/months, it could also have meant that the drill was scheduled for (say) 10 minutes later, at 3PM. The place was swarming with people with big black backpacks. The hijack pre-empted the drill by 10 minutes.

    • HAMMER says:

      I can consider this scenario – and what of Momma T’s role?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      It was never meant to come out that the Tsarnaev family were well-known to the FBI. Mama T knew nothing of the drill, only what she saw and heard in the media. Once the FBI reckoned that they did not know who the brothers were, she knew somebody was trying to work a flanker – though the details are anybody’s guess. She knew they were in danger, and wasn’t prepared to just take it.

    • HAMMER says:

      Hmmm – working this through the mind map

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      ..she disliked the spooks from the outset: they were apparently on TT’s back relentlessly. Maybe she knew what effect it was having, seeing it close up for several years. He may have been very reluctant to be part of what the spooks were up to. The family had been granted political asylum in the US: they know about spookery. Mama T wasn’t having it.

    • Renny says:

      Would explain why Uncle Ruslan disliked Mama T. She would not let her children become “successful people” like him.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Part of it, perhaps. There’s trouble of some sort in most families when it comes to in-laws. People are sometimes treated as black sheep for no good reason. It’s easier to have a figure to blame for everything. We don’t and can’t know what any of that’s about: could be a million things.

    • HAMMER says:

      This is from an AP interview with Anzor (DAD) “”””emphasis mine”””” What do you suppose that means?

      I learned about the incident from TV. My
      opinion is: the special services have framed my children, because they are
      practicing Muslims. Why did they kill Tamerlan?
      “””He was supposed to be caught alive.””””

      The younger is on the run now. He was a sophomore at a medical school in the
      U.S. We expected him to come home for vacation. Now I don’t know what’s going
      to happen. Tell you once again: I believe special services have framed my
      children.

    • HAMMER says:

      This is another from AP:

      Mr Tsarnaev recently spoke to his elder son, Tamerlan [Suspect
      #1], telling him that he should take care of his younger brother. Speaking of
      the Boston marathon bombing he told his son
      “”””“Ok, Thanks to Allah
      you were not close to there and did not suffer.””””

      “I remember I even asked “Who could do something like that?”

      “We just talked. I asked him about our Dzhokhar [Suspect #2],
      how was he. I told him, he should help him out and keep an eye on him, so that
      he studies well. I told him ‘You left school, got married too early, but the
      kid should finish [his ducation]’.Because this is life – those who don’t study
      work a lot and work hard. That’s why I was telling them study”.
      This is a close religous family. These boys shared everything with their parents – I think that may have been part of Ruslan’s anger at them – couldnt keep secrets?

    • HAMMER says:

      “””He was supposed to be caught alive.””””
      That is a revealing thing for his father to say….

    • Indi says:

      C, I dunno… I don’t think Dad Anzor knew about it. He probably said that meaning: “You don’t kill suspects. You catch them alive.”

    • HAMMER says:

      You, me, and 99% of the rest of the population to be sure
      But – a spook family? IDK for sure either – but a spook family knows the value of parsing thier words carefully – or covering up what they know. Every bit of what they say – just like Ruslan – is loaded with meaning.

    • Renny says:

      Interesting take by Mr. Graham Fuller (from an Al-monitor interview):

      “According to Fuller, the suspects’ mother Zubeidat Tsarnaeva was not an
      ethnic Chechen herself, but Dagestani, and so the family spoke the couple’s
      common language Russian, not Chechen, at home. “People who lose their native
      language (identity) sometimes are more fanatic in some respects,” he observed.”

      Both him and Ruslan are pushing this notion that it was Mama T’s fault and influence that made poor Tamerlan so fanatic. Also, Ruslan, apparently, tried to encourage Tamerlan to move to Kazakhstan in 2008 when he dropped out of school. Tamerlan refused.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      Interesting also that Fuller also declared that it was ‘absurd’ that there was any CIA connection with the fact that Ruslan had married his daughter, lived in his house, which was also the registered business address of that Congress of Chechens (of whatever the real title was) that was CIA-backed, and with which himself and Ruslan were significantly involved.

      I think it’s true that Mrs.T is not an ethinc Chechen, but of the Avar ethnic group.

      2008 is 5 years ago: Mrs.T said specifically that the spooks were monitoring Tamerlan ‘for five years’. Tamerlan was 21 in 2008, the age (I think…) that you’re officially an adult in the US. (According to the court documents for Dzh.T, he is still classed as a juvenile at 19.)

    • Renny says:

      I looked into Ruslan quite extensively, all his work history and everything – the whole story is obvious, especially if you know Operation Gladio B and Mr.Fuller’s involvement with Iran Contra – Mr. Fuller is the “father” of the idea to use islamist religious extremism as a weapon against Russia in order to get hold of the oil and mineral wealth in Central Asia. If you consider that Ruslan graduated from Law School in Kyrgyzstan in 1994 and right after that moved to US where he set up the Congress of Chechen International Organizations and married the daughter of Graham Fuller. He started working straight away for USAID. He’s not just an ordinary Chechen fleeing to US – he was probably recruited by CIA while still at the Law School in Kyrgyzstan.

    • Renny says:

      In that Al-monitor interview Mr. Fuller is trying to completely downplay Ruslan’s usefulness as a CIA operative. I would call this damage control:

      “Like all Chechens, Ruslan was very concerned about his native land, but I
      saw no particular involvement in politics, [although] he did try to contact other Chechens around,” Fuller continued. “He also felt homesick and eventually went back to Central Asia after the divorce. His English was shaky. (We always spoke Russian together).”

      “I doubt [Ruslan] even had much to say of intelligence value other than
      talking about his own family’s sad tale of deportation from Chechnya by Stalin
      to Central Asia,” Fuller said. “Every Chechen family has such stories.”

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I wonder who first got down to Maryland to set up camp outside his house ? How did they know where to go ?

      I know that many people change their surnames upon immigration, and that there’s often a similarity between the new and the old. But how exactly would reporters have made such a connection ?

    • Renny says:

      I actually thought he had called the media himself – to make his “public announcement”. IDK. I’m not sure if he changed his surname before marrying Ms. Fuller or after. I think I saw some documents, either their marriage or divorce records, where his old surname was used.

    • HAMMER says:

      According to Izvestia way way back (sp) Momma T was calling everyone and anyone that night to try to save the brothers. She reportedly said she called Ruslan first.

    • Renny says:

      Yes, I think Ruslan especially disliked the close relationship of Tamerlan and Mama T. As she said in the first interviews: “he used to call me, he used to tell me everything, I would be the first one to know”. Ruslan described her as “overbearing and meddlesome in her children’s lives in a dangerous way”.

      That would make TT useless as a CIA operative, if he was telling everything to his Mom.
      And I think Dad Anzor knows more than we think, he’s just more private and he knows how dangerous this game is. Mama T is too emotional – that’s why she spits out everything.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      …’couldn’t keep secrets’… or put another way, ‘too loyal to each other’.

      I remember this piece.

      I recall (I think) also that Mr.T was/is not particularly religious. As to the brothers saying that they were nowhere near the marathon – kids say such things all the time so that parents won’t worry, and the pattern can continue for decades.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      They were granted political asylum? I didn’t know that. Now that is interesting.That would maybe have put them on a fast track for immigration?Did CIA help with that?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      No idea. Dzh.T had to wait 10 years for his passport.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      So they didn’t want little brother traveling, did they.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I don’t know how it works. The refugees I know over here have to wait several years for passports. They have temporary but internationally-recognised travel documents, with restrictions. These are not valid for where the people have come from: land, sea, or airspace. But as they don’t have citizenship I don’t know if they’d have the same (theoretical) protection.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      She also didn’t know just how evil this govt is.

    • otterdaughter says:

      this would explain dt’s “fake story” text, and why they told no one they were at the marathon.

      i recall that “terrorists got there first” statement/story. so vague or something.

    • HAMMER says:

      “””the terrorists got there first””” was in the BG’s only story (and the only major newspaper or media outlet to issue it) it was a direct quote from someone in DHS cant recall who right this moment. it came out right after the Snowden revelations – June 9th, 10, 11th somewhere in this time frame.
      The only other publications to run this story where the alternatives –
      Flipped me out. It was almost like they were inviting the concpiracy theorists to an open fight. Nobody bit though – just reported almost verbatim what was printed in the BG article.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      A month in advance ? A week ? 10 minutes ?

    • Renny says:

      So, the carjacking was part of the plan too? They were given the car, a gun and some explosives or rather fireworks as part of the drill?…I guess it would explain why the bros stopped in the middle of the road in Watertown “throwing bombs and greanades” – that was part of the drill too. Do you think that the DT manhunt was planned as well?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      No. The local police weren’t in on it – some of them even self-deployed. They believed it was all for real, which it was by that point. In the drill, Dzh.T was never meant to escape (or perhaps he was never meant to be there in the first place ). He had to stick with big brother no matter what – and found himself running for his life.

      Interesting what Coach was saying about there being no blood on the brothers when they were seen at the ATM and the Shell. If they managed to change clothes and clean up (yeah right), then when ? and where ? No reports of discarded blood-soaked clothing being recovered….

    • HAMMER says:

      our paths are converging my friend – we have to figure Momma T’s role – Every way I consider her (in on it, naive, a plant, etc., ) you cant get around she screwed up the whole thing by spilling her guts –
      everything since then has been cover up to catch up…..

    • Baby Blake says:

      And now she’s gagged through fear that it could affect her surviving son’s chances of life or death. Cruel, but very effective.

    • patfromuk says:

      I would say the fear of him suffering more than he already is. From all her correspondance, I gathered that she has a strong faith. Remember, at he very beginning, she said defiantly: ” I don’t care if you kill my son or if you kill me”. People went on to take her litterally but it is not what she meant. She was angry and hurting at Tamerlan’s death and what she was trying to say is “kill all of us if you want , but God will be the judge” or something along those lines.
      I also have the feeling that those SAMs restrictions could have been imposed because she tried to abord the case with her son… It is only a speculation that came to my mind because since DT is COMPLETLY shut ot the outside world and his lawyers have to be very carefull about what they talk about during their filmed/recorded interview,(remember Lynne Stewart). I suppose his mum may have been tempted to talk about those who don’t agree with the official narrative and the only way they have to prevent this is to make DT’s condition even harshier.

    • HAMMER says:

      well said pat – dont be a stranger.

    • Renny says:

      I know the local police weren’t in on it. What I meant was – they could have found him that night, if they just used dogs to follow the blood trail from the car. Right? But someone (higher up) decided no, we would rather bring 9000 militarized police force, with tanks and I don’t know what – just to find an obviously wounded teenager, who is alone, running for his life. And we will do a door-to-door house search as well, just for a good measure…

    • abbeysbooks says:

      If you go to Dave’s site, there was relatively little blood. People talked about how much they helped this and that victim and were photographed with white shirts etc and no blood, no blood on hands, no gloved hands either. To see The Act of Killing where the murderers decades later re-enact the terrible crimes they committed, the “villagers” standing in as actors now, began to feel it was real, crying, passing out, going into convulsions AND THEY HAD BEEN TOLD IT WAS A FILM!

    • Indi says:

      Very interesting.
      I still think it is hard to believe that TT would not have flipped out after figuring out that the drill became a real nightmare, and that he was doing the ‘bad guy’ role.

    • HAMMER says:

      Its possible he resisted that role. He did tell the FBI that the BMB was their problem – and they knew where he lived….He could have been reassured by his handlers. And then gone about his business the next several days – until the Thursday night hammer came down.

    • Indi says:

      I must say that the scene of him walking towards the officers with the weapon seems quite cinematographic. Who on earth in a sane state would do that? Was he going ‘with the plan’ by then or was he waking up and reacting to save DTs and his life?

    • HAMMER says:

      “IF” that was him – it seems it was an existential moment. Giving himself up to live – save his brother and rely on his uncle – his handlers to pull him out of the jam.
      Walking 70-80 yards as is reported with those guns trained on him – (he probably didnt know about Collier) that is a hell of a choice that someone makes with either an incredible amount of naivete or trust…

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Your assumption is that the “Bombings” were REAL. Were they?

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      ….as opposed to assuming that they weren’t…?

      I’m wondering what else may have caused the singed hair seen on several people within seconds of the blasts. Any ideas ?

      There’s a picture on an edition of ‘Time’ magazine showing a fireman removing a child from the scene. The child is missing a patch of hair.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Yes. IDK anymore. Yes there were explosions. Deliberate of course. But by whom?

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Could have been shopped out.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      I know that anything’s possible.

    • abbeysbooks says:

      Your present blog post shows them afterwards. No blood. Well can’t you hear the rebuttal? The blood was shopped out. Then you explain that these are surveillance images. And so it goes. But the conversation continues. And if it continues that person is going to be involved. That person is going to talk about it in his/her life that same day. Maybe ask a friend what they think. Get feedback on the outside, interject more questions. IT WILL KEEP THE EVENT GOING, it will give legs to it, it will begin the process of contemplation in someone you don’t know, are never going to know, but who needs and wants to know how to think about this event.

      “The Event is not the meaning. It is what lies inside the event that is the meaning.” – John Caputo’s The Insistence of God:A Theology of Perhaps

      Now right there is have waved the flag of Caputo and someone may get it, or the next time they see or hear his name will connect, resonate with it. And this should be on disqus, so that anyone on disqus can pull up their comments, others’s comments, and retrace the thinking that they followed. You have no idea how astonishing it is to have that thread of yours unroll in time just for you. And it should be on the forum blog.

    • Renny says:

      I was thinking about this – if the original “bombing drill” was hijacked by some unknown group, and they knew the full drill with the Watertown “capture” – would they try to meddle with that as well. They knew that FBI thought it was the 2 bros who had gone rogue. Let’s assume that the drill plan for Watertown was that 3 or 4 groups of the 12 people terrorist cell – that were part of the drill – would drive around Watertown in black SUVs creating havoc, throwing fireworks out of their cars – to test the LE coordination and reaction (?). The local police didn’t know about the drill, so they acted as if it was real – shooting at the suspects, trying to stop them. The FBI wanted them to capture the 2 bros, so they made it clear it was only the 2 the local police should be after. But the real rogue elements were among the other members of the 12 people – it was not the bros who hijacked the drill. And these rogue elements didn’t want the police to capture the bros – because they would tell them it wasn’t them – and they might have been able to point in the right direction. So, for these rogue elements it was essential that the bros were killed. DT was supposed to be with TT in the SUV, but TT had some suspicion so he made his lil’ bro drive the Honda instead – in case something happened, DT would have been safe. DT was supposed to wait somewhere (Laurel St.?) where they would meet up after the end of the drill. When the rogue elements caught up with TT, they found out DT was not there. They searched around Watertown until they found him – and they’re the 2 people shooting at the police at Laurel St. – while DT is the third crouching person, who has no clue what’s happening or what happened to his brother.

    • Indi says:

      Now they changed the “boat message” again… how many times will they change it? This is infuriating.

      “The U.S. government is killing our innocent civilians but most of you already know that. As a M[uslim] I can’t stand to see such evil go unpunished, we Muslims are one body, you hurt one you hurt usall . . . [T]he ummah [i.e. the Muslimpeople] is beginning to rise]. . . . Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel of your gun and see heaven, now how can you compete with that. We are promised victory and we will surely get it.”

    • Renny says:

      And it’s written in pen again…

    • Indi says:

      It is so ridiculous. I can’t believe they coul ever get away with this.

    • SaundersGreenAndNotBlue says:

      This doesn’t look real to me: too many departures from legalistic language, terms which are not used in other official documents. Inconsistencies in punctuation and the use of capital letters. The font looks different, and IF it’s been done on a typewriter, then the typewriter has an unusual form of lettering, as well as a recurring fault. If it’s done on a computer, why is the italic font different from the main one, and how is the typewriter-like fault explained ? If there was a particular problem with one computer, another could have been used. It just doesn’t look or read like other documents.